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	<title>Comments on: Opinion: A frightening party of selfishness and reactionism</title>
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		<title>By: rantersparadise</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99125</link>
		<dc:creator>rantersparadise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99125</guid>
		<description>Also agree about the Labour party...they should&#039;ve gotten rid of all those mentalist Blairites..it was never like that-though it had to come into the 20th century...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also agree about the Labour party&#8230;they should&#8217;ve gotten rid of all those mentalist Blairites..it was never like that-though it had to come into the 20th century&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: rantersparadise</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99124</link>
		<dc:creator>rantersparadise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99124</guid>
		<description>Tories policies are nothing like Labour&#039;s there is a huge difference but the rubbish they feed the press ends up all being the same.

My only issue with this piece is that it was written to quick-like an after thought and it&#039;s unfortunate because there are some really good points in there...

Funny party the Tories, not very nice people..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tories policies are nothing like Labour&#8217;s there is a huge difference but the rubbish they feed the press ends up all being the same.</p>
<p>My only issue with this piece is that it was written to quick-like an after thought and it&#8217;s unfortunate because there are some really good points in there&#8230;</p>
<p>Funny party the Tories, not very nice people..</p>
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		<title>By: Tabman</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99118</link>
		<dc:creator>Tabman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99118</guid>
		<description>Its hardly the leadership&#039;s fault that Cameron and Co are triangulating in on our vote.  There&#039;s no point in advocating &quot;radical and distinctive&quot; policies if they&#039;re rubbish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its hardly the leadership&#8217;s fault that Cameron and Co are triangulating in on our vote.  There&#8217;s no point in advocating &#8220;radical and distinctive&#8221; policies if they&#8217;re rubbish.</p>
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		<title>By: David Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99117</link>
		<dc:creator>David Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99117</guid>
		<description>Hmm.  Too often our meme is:

- Labour’s policy has failed because X

- Our approach would fix it because Y

- The Conservative alternative is basically much the same, so why bother thinking about us?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  Too often our meme is:</p>
<p>- Labour’s policy has failed because X</p>
<p>- Our approach would fix it because Y</p>
<p>- The Conservative alternative is basically much the same, so why bother thinking about us?</p>
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		<title>By: Tabman</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99113</link>
		<dc:creator>Tabman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99113</guid>
		<description>David Allen.  All this &quot;Tories eat babies&quot; is good knockabout for the party faithful, but ATEOTD we have to get serious about Labour if we&#039;re actually, y&#039;know, going to win any &lt;i&gt;seats&lt;/i&gt;.  The Tories are not the answer to any question you would care to ask, but too many voters are going straight from red to blue without even thinking about yellow.  We need to give them a good reason to look at us, and jumping up and down and saying&quot; but .. but ... the Tories are really BAD!  Thatcher! Cuts!&quot; isn&#039;t going to cut any ice.  The 1980s was over 20 years ago.  We need to be looking at the problems of today (and who caused them, and why our answers are the best).

Any political message we put out should follow this meme:

- Labour&#039;s policy has failed because X

- Our approach would fix it because Y

- The Conservative alternative is more of the same / doen&#039;t address the real issue because Z</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Allen.  All this &#8220;Tories eat babies&#8221; is good knockabout for the party faithful, but ATEOTD we have to get serious about Labour if we&#8217;re actually, y&#8217;know, going to win any <i>seats</i>.  The Tories are not the answer to any question you would care to ask, but too many voters are going straight from red to blue without even thinking about yellow.  We need to give them a good reason to look at us, and jumping up and down and saying&#8221; but .. but &#8230; the Tories are really BAD!  Thatcher! Cuts!&#8221; isn&#8217;t going to cut any ice.  The 1980s was over 20 years ago.  We need to be looking at the problems of today (and who caused them, and why our answers are the best).</p>
<p>Any political message we put out should follow this meme:</p>
<p>- Labour&#8217;s policy has failed because X</p>
<p>- Our approach would fix it because Y</p>
<p>- The Conservative alternative is more of the same / doen&#8217;t address the real issue because Z</p>
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		<title>By: David Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99111</link>
		<dc:creator>David Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 12:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99111</guid>
		<description>Tabman,

Sure, Paul&#039;s piece is too shrill to make a good election leaflet.  In Paul&#039;s defence, he wasn&#039;t writing an election leaflet.  He was telling LDV readers some home truths.

No doubt the claim that Hitler was about to slaughter six million would have been far too shrill and undiplomatic for use in a 1930s German political campaign.  It would not have resonated.  This does not mean it would have been wrong to raise the issue.

Don&#039;t forget that George W Bush won election in 2000 as a &quot;Compassionate Conservative&quot;, who appeared to be falling off the leftmost end of the Republican Party spectrum, but somehow managed to avoid being pinned down to any very major policy commitments.  Remind you of anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tabman,</p>
<p>Sure, Paul&#8217;s piece is too shrill to make a good election leaflet.  In Paul&#8217;s defence, he wasn&#8217;t writing an election leaflet.  He was telling LDV readers some home truths.</p>
<p>No doubt the claim that Hitler was about to slaughter six million would have been far too shrill and undiplomatic for use in a 1930s German political campaign.  It would not have resonated.  This does not mean it would have been wrong to raise the issue.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget that George W Bush won election in 2000 as a &#8220;Compassionate Conservative&#8221;, who appeared to be falling off the leftmost end of the Republican Party spectrum, but somehow managed to avoid being pinned down to any very major policy commitments.  Remind you of anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Walter</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99104</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99104</guid>
		<description>Well yes, most of the nice people I know who were Labour party members are now ex-Labour party members.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well yes, most of the nice people I know who were Labour party members are now ex-Labour party members.</p>
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		<title>By: Tabman</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99098</link>
		<dc:creator>Tabman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99098</guid>
		<description>Very pleased to hear it.  Although anyone still in the Labour Party has to be counted as misguided at the very best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very pleased to hear it.  Although anyone still in the Labour Party has to be counted as misguided at the very best.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Walter</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99097</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99097</guid>
		<description>I have criticised the Labour government on many occasions and of course many of their policies are illiberal. Indeed I was on the march against the Iraq invasion. I was thinking of the Labour party rank and file as a whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have criticised the Labour government on many occasions and of course many of their policies are illiberal. Indeed I was on the march against the Iraq invasion. I was thinking of the Labour party rank and file as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Tabman</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99094</link>
		<dc:creator>Tabman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99094</guid>
		<description>&quot;Labour are not Liberal and have an awful lot to be critical of.&quot;

[hangs head in shame] &quot;of which we can be critical&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Labour are not Liberal and have an awful lot to be critical of.&#8221;</p>
<p>[hangs head in shame] &#8220;of which we can be critical&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tabman</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99092</link>
		<dc:creator>Tabman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99092</guid>
		<description>Rankersbo: &quot;Sure we should attack Labour on their faults, but we should not drop our guard on the Tories.&quot;

But that&#039;s the point - where are the attacks on Labour?  Instead, we get the admission that Mr Walter &quot;quite like[s] Labour.&quot;

That way electoral suicide lies - apart from the fact that Labour are not Liberal and have an awful lot to be critical of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rankersbo: &#8220;Sure we should attack Labour on their faults, but we should not drop our guard on the Tories.&#8221;</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s the point &#8211; where are the attacks on Labour?  Instead, we get the admission that Mr Walter &#8220;quite like[s] Labour.&#8221;</p>
<p>That way electoral suicide lies &#8211; apart from the fact that Labour are not Liberal and have an awful lot to be critical of.</p>
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		<title>By: Rankersbo</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99090</link>
		<dc:creator>Rankersbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99090</guid>
		<description>Good article, like the bit about McMillan-Scott.  A good egg who has been treated shamefully.
Well written and all true.

I&#039;m puzzled as to why people think we should be ignoring or glossing over this stuff.  Sure we should attack Labour on their faults, but we should not drop our guard on the Tories.  If Mr and Mrs Average voter is so annoyed with Brown that they become blinkered to the Tories&#039; faults, we should not refrain from pointing those faults out.

Turning a blind eye to the Tories helps no-one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article, like the bit about McMillan-Scott.  A good egg who has been treated shamefully.<br />
Well written and all true.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m puzzled as to why people think we should be ignoring or glossing over this stuff.  Sure we should attack Labour on their faults, but we should not drop our guard on the Tories.  If Mr and Mrs Average voter is so annoyed with Brown that they become blinkered to the Tories&#8217; faults, we should not refrain from pointing those faults out.</p>
<p>Turning a blind eye to the Tories helps no-one.</p>
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		<title>By: Tabman</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99089</link>
		<dc:creator>Tabman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99089</guid>
		<description>Paul Walter - &quot;Why? I quite like the Labour party as a whole.&quot;

Attituides like that are why we&#039;re in the mess we are in today.  If someone in 2003 had sat down and looked at the totally illiberal direction of the Labour Party (ID cards, Iraq, top-down centralisation) and started working on a 2-elections trategy to replace them when they eventually fell from grace, we would be looking at 100 MPs at the next election instead of 45.

It also allows our Conservative enemies to free rein to use terms like &quot;Vote Yellow Get Brown&quot; or &quot;We are the only way you can get rid of Labour&quot;.  It makes me want to bang my head against the wall in frustration.  Labour are as much a part of the problem in our politics as the Conservatives - not least on their continual reneging on their election manifesto promise to hold a referendum on elctoral reform.

If you &quot;quite like Labour&quot; - join the Labour Party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul Walter &#8211; &#8220;Why? I quite like the Labour party as a whole.&#8221;</p>
<p>Attituides like that are why we&#8217;re in the mess we are in today.  If someone in 2003 had sat down and looked at the totally illiberal direction of the Labour Party (ID cards, Iraq, top-down centralisation) and started working on a 2-elections trategy to replace them when they eventually fell from grace, we would be looking at 100 MPs at the next election instead of 45.</p>
<p>It also allows our Conservative enemies to free rein to use terms like &#8220;Vote Yellow Get Brown&#8221; or &#8220;We are the only way you can get rid of Labour&#8221;.  It makes me want to bang my head against the wall in frustration.  Labour are as much a part of the problem in our politics as the Conservatives &#8211; not least on their continual reneging on their election manifesto promise to hold a referendum on elctoral reform.</p>
<p>If you &#8220;quite like Labour&#8221; &#8211; join the Labour Party.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Walter</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99088</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 09:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99088</guid>
		<description>&quot;I also challenge both of you to come up with a critical argument of Labour couched in the same terms as the article above, to be published here.&quot;

Why? I quite like the Labour party as a whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I also challenge both of you to come up with a critical argument of Labour couched in the same terms as the article above, to be published here.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why? I quite like the Labour party as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Tabman</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99086</link>
		<dc:creator>Tabman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 09:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99086</guid>
		<description>David Allen: &quot;We modern politicians follow the lowest common denominator of public opinion, we don’t attempt to give leadership, that’s so last century. &quot;

Note I called for &quot;Somebody somewhere ... to get a grip, acknowledge that the world has changed, and get on with producing popular liberal policies for us to put before the electorate. The perhaps we will, and deserve to, do well electorally.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Allen: &#8220;We modern politicians follow the lowest common denominator of public opinion, we don’t attempt to give leadership, that’s so last century. &#8221;</p>
<p>Note I called for &#8220;Somebody somewhere &#8230; to get a grip, acknowledge that the world has changed, and get on with producing popular liberal policies for us to put before the electorate. The perhaps we will, and deserve to, do well electorally.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tabman</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99085</link>
		<dc:creator>Tabman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 09:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99085</guid>
		<description>David Allen, Paul Walter - if you want to indulge your obsession for attacking the Tories, I suggest you &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/vince-cable-osbornomics-would-make-britain-poorer-and-less-equal-1797942.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;take some tips from Vince&lt;/a&gt; on how to do it with style.

I also challenge both of you to come up with a critical argument of Labour couched in the same terms as the article above, to be published here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Allen, Paul Walter &#8211; if you want to indulge your obsession for attacking the Tories, I suggest you <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/vince-cable-osbornomics-would-make-britain-poorer-and-less-equal-1797942.html" rel="nofollow">take some tips from Vince</a> on how to do it with style.</p>
<p>I also challenge both of you to come up with a critical argument of Labour couched in the same terms as the article above, to be published here.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Walter</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99081</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99081</guid>
		<description>Thank you David ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you David <img src='http://www.libdemvoice.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: David Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99076</link>
		<dc:creator>David Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99076</guid>
		<description>Paul, your problem is that you are telling an inconvenient truth.  Since Mr and Mrs Average Voter are obsessed with their hatred for Gordon to the exclusion of all other thought, we must all follow them in thinking that way.  

We modern politicians follow the lowest common denominator of public opinion, we don&#039;t attempt to give leadership, that&#039;s so last century. 

Come 2011, the Tories will have proved you right, but by that time, nobody will remember.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, your problem is that you are telling an inconvenient truth.  Since Mr and Mrs Average Voter are obsessed with their hatred for Gordon to the exclusion of all other thought, we must all follow them in thinking that way.  </p>
<p>We modern politicians follow the lowest common denominator of public opinion, we don&#8217;t attempt to give leadership, that&#8217;s so last century. </p>
<p>Come 2011, the Tories will have proved you right, but by that time, nobody will remember.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Walter</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-99020</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 08:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-99020</guid>
		<description>Oh dear. And I enjoyed writing it so much. Ho hum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh dear. And I enjoyed writing it so much. Ho hum.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Kinsella</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/a-frightening-party-of-selfishness-and-reactionism-16399.html#comment-98977</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Kinsella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 19:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16399#comment-98977</guid>
		<description>Are you aware it is not 1997. We are not out there trying to hoover up seats from the Tories. It surprises me that we are not going hell for leather after Labour at the moment as well as the Tories. We need equi-distance from both parties and not be parading ourselves as Labour lite or doing their bidding for them.

Oh, the Latvian governments take on the SS legion.

http://www.am.gov.lv/en/latvia/history/legion/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you aware it is not 1997. We are not out there trying to hoover up seats from the Tories. It surprises me that we are not going hell for leather after Labour at the moment as well as the Tories. We need equi-distance from both parties and not be parading ourselves as Labour lite or doing their bidding for them.</p>
<p>Oh, the Latvian governments take on the SS legion.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.am.gov.lv/en/latvia/history/legion/" rel="nofollow">http://www.am.gov.lv/en/latvia/history/legion/</a></p>
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