How on earth is not raising your kids in a religion “atheist indoctrination”?

People are not saying he should teach them that God is a fairy tale and all believers are idiots, simply that they should be not be raised explicitly as Catholics (or any other religion), so that when they’re old enough they’ll have an unbiased view of all viewpoints.

Why do so many people fail to see the massive difference here.

Well done Clegg.

I dare not speak of the images /that/ sentence put in my head…

Which reminds me, must go see the new St Trinian’s movie.

Yes. Exactly. And Clegg signed on the dotted line like a girl’s blouse.

Being culturally Catholic doesn’t make you a believer.

If it’s just a cultural thing, then why does Clegg have to make solemn promises at theological gunpoint? And why does he have to reassure the nation of this fact? What next? Is he going to tell us that he has promised to raise his children as Sheffield Wednesday supporters? Though naturally he has the highest respect for Sheffield United?

And once they’re old enough to choose, they can stop going to church.

Which of course should read, “And once they’re old enough to choose, they can start going to church.”

Reading this thread makes me wonder whether a lot of my fellow Lib Dems understand what being liberal means.

So what does liberalism entail exactly? Teaching children demonstrable falsehoods? Count me out.

Also, am amused that you think Laurence is female.

I do try to keep in touch with my feminine side.

OK, so I said “IMHO state education should teach the basic tenets of all religions without championing any one or the other so that at least people have the opportunity to make an informed choice.”… perhaps I should have inserted an “or lack thereof” in between religions and without.

Also, am amused that you think Laurence is female. Or is it OK for Laurence to use the “I” word, but not us girls?

I don’t object to /anyone’s/ children having the opportunity to learn about Catholicism (or any other religion) but seeing children described as believers (or, for that matter, confirmed atheists) makes me uncomfortable. There’s a difference between “learning about” and “being indoctrinated into” which applies to any religion, or for that matter, any number of other thought systems. Including liberalism.

Nick clearly realises that there are doctrinal atheists who demonstrate the same bigotries that the more unpleasant religiosos do. Quite rightly he wants to make it clear he ain’t one of those. He also might just happen to love his wife. I’m amazed particularly at the female posters here who think he should indoctrinate – yes, the word is just as applicable – their joint offspring into atheism. Shame!

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m an equal opportunities anti-religionist. I object to children being indoctrinated into Islam, Judaism, Jainism, and Pastafarianism too. I just like the idea of people being able to make their own choices. Obviously this shouldn’t involve children being snatched away from their parents, but IMHO state education should teach the basic tenets of all religions without championing any one or the other so that at least people have the opportunity to make an informed choice.

* shrug *

I don’t see that as such a controversial opinion, but I recognise that “indoctrination” is an emotive word, and will try to use alternatives in future. It’s just that it takes longer to type “instructing nchildren that a set of fallacious beliefs is, in fact, true, and thereby lying to them”

* innocent expression *

Many people were raised in a faith (I wasn’t), but being culturally catholic doesn’t make you a believer.

I’d not be happy if they were being indoctrinated to believe, but we don’t know that they are, just that they’re being taken to church and taught the tenets of the faith. Pretty sure that if the kids ask Dad what he thinks, he’ll tell them—they’ll then be able to make up their own mind.

And once they’re old enough to choose, they can stop going to church, etc if they wish. I got myself removed from the local CofE school and sent to the slightly less local secular school when I was 7.

Clegg gave an answer designed to not offend those who take these things seriously. Meh. Not a huge issue really.

Of course not, but the Catholic church does say that catholics can only marry outside the faith if the partner agrees to bring up the kids as Catholics. So she is saying “I’m the big mama and my kids do waht I say”.

For the record I am also an atheist who was brought up a catholic. perhaps there is hope for the kids yet!

I have seen Song for a Raggy Boy, I have no illusions regarding what a Catholic upbringing can be like. Somehow, I doubt chez Clegg will be quite the same as that.

So let’s, as a party, leave people’s family life alone, shall we?

What should he have done, Laurence? Say “Shut up woman, I’m the big papa and my kids do what I say”?

Sheesh, look how thin some of these “liberals” liberalism is when it comes to people doing things they personally don’t like.

The reason you are amazed Joe, is surely only because you have bought into a set of prevailing cultural biases which religions have been working furiously to uphold for centuries. Try these for size instead:

- I don’t believe in God, but I’m going to raise my children as Jehovah’s Witnesses.

- I don’t believe in the supernatural, but I’m going to send my kids to voodoo classes as soon as they are old enough.

- I’m a liberal, but I am going to bring up my children as Marxists.

He’s basically saying that he’s going to teach his kids stuff that he doesn’t believe in himself. So not only will Clegg’s children be taught a pack of lies, they will also grow up with a somewhat compromised grasp of the value of honesty. Frankly, it’s utterly dismal.

What, even Catholics?

For every Fred Phelps, there is a Vicar of Dibley.

Give me Fred Phelps any day.

That he doesn’t believe in a god is fine (who does?) but by his own admission he’s quite willing to indoctrinate his own children into a belief system he considers to be untrue. That’s not good.

No, it’s not good at all. It’s very ungood in fact.

So are you guys suggesting that atheists should never marry Catholics?

Having been raised a Catholic myself, it’s not a course of action I could honestly recommend.