Comments on: Clegg: Lib Dem Social Mobility Commission “shatters the idea that Britain in 2009 is a free and fair society” http://www.libdemvoice.org/clegg-lib-dem-social-mobility-commission-shatters-the-idea-that-britain-in-2009-is-a-free-and-fair-society-10117.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:36:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: John Lees http://www.libdemvoice.org/clegg-lib-dem-social-mobility-commission-shatters-the-idea-that-britain-in-2009-is-a-free-and-fair-society-10117.html#comment-76613 John Lees Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:53:33 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10117#comment-76613 I came from a one parent family as my mother died when I was 12, we had no money and my father came from a lower working class background and had an old fashioned "know your place" attitude. I went to University on a full grant in the 1970's. I am now a successful IT Consultant. I have read the "learned" papers on social mobility and they miss a fundamental point: ANYONE who has a burning desire to succeed will find a way. You see everyone has access to education in this country, but many cannot be bothered or don't see it as important. This can be due to peer pressures or parental attitudes. Their dreams are stolen. The best message on social mobility in my opinion was put forward by Margaret Thatcher promoting individual drive accomplishment and entrepreneurship. Social engineering begins with hearts and minds and personal desire. Education, legislation and any central programme provides the means of course. You can lead the proverbial horse to water though. What is fundamental to the lowering of individual social mobility in the UK is a lack of individual HOPE. In oneself and in the country/economy. It is related to CONFIDENCE, TRUST, BELIEF and therefore can be seen in the context of the overall economic climate. It is a shame that despite 10 years of "prosperity" such hope had already been lost for so many before the downturn happened! I came from a one parent family as my mother died when I was 12, we had no money and my father came from a lower working class background and had an old fashioned “know your place” attitude. I went to University on a full grant in the 1970′s. I am now a successful IT Consultant. I have read the “learned” papers on social mobility and they miss a fundamental point:
ANYONE who has a burning desire to succeed will find a way.
You see everyone has access to education in this country, but many cannot be bothered or don’t see it as important. This can be due to peer pressures or parental attitudes. Their dreams are stolen.
The best message on social mobility in my opinion was put forward by Margaret Thatcher promoting individual drive accomplishment and entrepreneurship.
Social engineering begins with hearts and minds and personal desire. Education, legislation and any central programme provides the means of course.
You can lead the proverbial horse to water though. What is fundamental to the lowering of individual social mobility in the UK is a lack of individual HOPE. In oneself and in the country/economy. It is related to CONFIDENCE, TRUST, BELIEF and therefore can be seen in the context of the overall economic climate. It is a shame that despite 10 years of “prosperity” such hope had already been lost for so many before the downturn happened!

]]> By: David Heigham http://www.libdemvoice.org/clegg-lib-dem-social-mobility-commission-shatters-the-idea-that-britain-in-2009-is-a-free-and-fair-society-10117.html#comment-76425 David Heigham Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:49:30 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10117#comment-76425 A solid report in its remit, and the recommendations are excellent in parts. But there are three fundamental problems in the way the question was put. Matthew Taylor has raised the first. What we want is not more random mixing of social position but more levelling up. The second point is that what we take as 'class' markers nowadays are almost entirely about who has had more or less education. Education is the main determinant of income, of health outcomes and percieved social ranking. To level up, we have to educate longer (and, preferably, better). The third point is that the principal determinant of success and staying on in education is the education of your parents, and the second determinant is the education of your classmates' parents. Further, success in employment is closely linked to contact with others who have been successful. If we are serious about levelling up, there is no alternative to mixing much more in the communities we live in and in our schools. Segregated social housing for the deprived is deeply counter-productive. A solid report in its remit, and the recommendations are excellent in parts.

But there are three fundamental problems in the way the question was put. Matthew Taylor has raised the first. What we want is not more random mixing of social position but more levelling up.

The second point is that what we take as ‘class’ markers nowadays are almost entirely about who has had more or less education. Education is the main determinant of income, of health outcomes and percieved social ranking. To level up, we have to educate longer (and, preferably, better).

The third point is that the principal determinant of success and staying on in education is the education of your parents, and the second determinant is the education of your classmates’ parents. Further, success in employment is closely linked to contact with others who have been successful. If we are serious about levelling up, there is no alternative to mixing much more in the communities we live in and in our schools. Segregated social housing for the deprived is deeply counter-productive.

]]> By: Matthew Cain http://www.libdemvoice.org/clegg-lib-dem-social-mobility-commission-shatters-the-idea-that-britain-in-2009-is-a-free-and-fair-society-10117.html#comment-76407 Matthew Cain Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:44:56 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10117#comment-76407 Matthew Taylor (the other one) has an interesting response to the report, asking whether social mobility is a good thing: http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/public-policy/is-social-mobility-a-good-thing/ Matthew Taylor (the other one) has an interesting response to the report, asking whether social mobility is a good thing: http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/public-policy/is-social-mobility-a-good-thing/

]]> By: Andrew Duffield http://www.libdemvoice.org/clegg-lib-dem-social-mobility-commission-shatters-the-idea-that-britain-in-2009-is-a-free-and-fair-society-10117.html#comment-76378 Andrew Duffield Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:10:39 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10117#comment-76378 As ever with these kind of reports, plenty of stuff on inequalities of opportunity and of income - and bugger all on inequalities of wealth. Some well-meaning recommendations, misguided in parts, but the poor really are doomed to always be with us at this rate. As ever with these kind of reports, plenty of stuff on inequalities of opportunity and of income – and bugger all on inequalities of wealth.

Some well-meaning recommendations, misguided in parts, but the poor really are doomed to always be with us at this rate.

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