Comments on: A new way to decide who to vote for http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:46:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Francis Davey http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-49284 Francis Davey Wed, 21 May 2008 09:32:20 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-49284 To be fair to Julian, its very difficult to get a set of questions "right". Its possible to knock up your own analysis of this kind using publicwhip -- but most of the public aren't going to do that. It might be interesting to know if there are suitable objective ways of selecting questions. To be fair to Julian, its very difficult to get a set of questions “right”. Its possible to knock up your own analysis of this kind using publicwhip — but most of the public aren’t going to do that. It might be interesting to know if there are suitable objective ways of selecting questions.

]]> By: Bridget Fox http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48825 Bridget Fox Fri, 16 May 2008 10:24:02 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48825 I came out as Lib Dem (no surprise) followed by Conservative (yuk). I guess that opposition parties will tend to have points in common against the Government on a quiz like this. http://bridgetfox.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/making-your-mind-up/ I came out as Lib Dem (no surprise) followed by Conservative (yuk). I guess that opposition parties will tend to have points in common against the Government on a quiz like this.

http://bridgetfox.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/making-your-mind-up/

]]> By: Aidan http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48816 Aidan Fri, 16 May 2008 08:46:21 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48816 In reponse to this comment "However, much as I loathe the Labour Party, I have to say that this measure is slightly unfair to them.... " I was chatting to Julian Todd (online) one of the main developers of the public whip and responded that ..The first observation about it is that people instinctively hold us to a higher standard than they do for a powerful newspaper, whose reporting we take for granted is systematically biased and doesn't properly cover the the good deeds done by the party its owner does not support. But yes, he's pointed out an unavoidable bias in the data -- that there may be a groundwork of consensus between the parties for which there are no votes; but that these things are put on the table in the first place by there being a Labour government. So, while the Conservatives never proposed an FOI act, when the Labour government brought one forward, the Conservatives voted to strengthen it. I am also not completely satisfied by having a voting table to determin the party that agrees with you. I'd prefer it to be used so that you can see which policies you disagree with for the party you will vote for, but we're not at that stage of sophistication. In reponse to this comment “However, much as I loathe the Labour Party, I have to say that this measure is slightly unfair to them…. ” I was chatting to Julian Todd (online) one of the main developers of the public whip and responded that ..The first observation about it is that people instinctively hold us to a higher standard than they do for a powerful newspaper, whose reporting we take for granted is systematically biased and doesn’t properly cover the the good deeds done by the party its owner does not support.

But yes, he’s pointed out an unavoidable bias in the data — that there may be a groundwork of consensus between the parties for which there are no votes; but that these things are put on the table in the first place by there being a Labour government.

So, while the Conservatives never proposed an FOI act, when the Labour government brought one forward, the Conservatives voted to strengthen it.

I am also not completely satisfied by having a voting table to determin the party that agrees with you. I’d prefer it to be used so that you can see which policies you disagree with for the party you will vote for, but we’re not at that stage of sophistication.

]]> By: Oranjepan http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48815 Oranjepan Fri, 16 May 2008 08:42:52 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48815 Seriously though, what sane person could actually support the headline proposals offered by Labour - I mean, even cabinet ministers were campaigning against Post Office closures while voting in favour! Seriously though, what sane person could actually support the headline proposals offered by Labour – I mean, even cabinet ministers were campaigning against Post Office closures while voting in favour!

]]> By: Matthew Huntbach http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48814 Matthew Huntbach Fri, 16 May 2008 08:34:03 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48814 I came out as strongly LibDem, but felt the questions were biased against the government. Governments often have to make difficult decisions - people are against the decision, but they would be even more against the alternative. Oppositions don't always take the approach of criticising those decisions by means of proposing alternatives. If one had a survey with a whole range of questions "are you for or against these public expenditure cuts?" people would mostly vote "against". Then if you had a whole range of questions "are you for or against these tax rises?" people would mostly vote "against". But governments don't have the luxury of being able to choose mutually contradictory policies. In many cases the answer to the public's question "why are you evil people cutting this or not paying for that?" is "because you're always saying how evil we are for charging you the tax rates we charge". I came out as strongly LibDem, but felt the questions were biased against the government.

Governments often have to make difficult decisions – people are against the decision, but they would be even more against the alternative. Oppositions don’t always take the approach of criticising those decisions by means of proposing alternatives.

If one had a survey with a whole range of questions “are you for or against these public expenditure cuts?” people would mostly vote “against”. Then if you had a whole range of questions “are you for or against these tax rises?” people would mostly vote “against”. But governments don’t have the luxury of being able to choose mutually contradictory policies. In many cases the answer to the public’s question “why are you evil people cutting this or not paying for that?” is “because you’re always saying how evil we are for charging you the tax rates we charge”.

]]> By: asquith http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48811 asquith Fri, 16 May 2008 06:37:01 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48811 I think the reason so many of us are coming out as Conservatives is that firstly they've chosen very specific issues, and secondly that both us and the Conservatives oppose Labour policies in general. But we, naturally, have the best reasons for so doing: principle rather than opportunism :) I think the reason so many of us are coming out as Conservatives is that firstly they’ve chosen very specific issues, and secondly that both us and the Conservatives oppose Labour policies in general. But we, naturally, have the best reasons for so doing: principle rather than opportunism :)

]]> By: Paul L http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48810 Paul L Fri, 16 May 2008 06:33:26 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48810 I like the fact that they have found the distinction between us and the Tories on the 10p tax band issue. I like the fact that they have found the distinction between us and the Tories on the 10p tax band issue.

]]> By: Martin Land http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48809 Martin Land Fri, 16 May 2008 06:18:24 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48809 1. Lib Dem 2. Conservative 3. Gwynneth Dunwoody 4. Official Labour 1. Lib Dem
2. Conservative
3. Gwynneth Dunwoody
4. Official Labour

]]> By: Alex Wilcock http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48752 Alex Wilcock Thu, 15 May 2008 20:27:36 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48752 I came out very strongly Lib Dem - no surprise - with 218 / 240, followed by Tories at 164, Gwyneth Dunwoody at 67 and Labour trailing down at 33. I suspect I’d have been even more nauseatingly down the party line if I hadn’t been the one person who tried to stop the smoking ban going into the last manifesto… However, much as I loathe the Labour Party, I have to say that this measure is slightly unfair to them. It automatically gives extra weight to disagreement with the Government: it picks the more controversial issues rather than the ones that the Government gets right and other parties have to grumble and nit-pick at; and, more importantly, out of twelve issues nine are ones where the Government line was ‘For’. A positive vote is much easier to pin down than a negative one – so people may find themselves ‘agreeing’ with the Liberal Democrats or Tories on this score merely because they disagree with the Labour Government, when they might actually disagree for very different reasons to either opposition party (or Labour very lukewarm rebel) and not agree at all with what either opposition party would propose instead. So, much as it goes against the grain to say it, this unfairly magnifies any tendency to disagree with Labour and magnifies unfairly in favour of the Lib Dems and Tories, though the general direction’s probably still roughly accurate. I came out very strongly Lib Dem – no surprise – with 218 / 240, followed by Tories at 164, Gwyneth Dunwoody at 67 and Labour trailing down at 33. I suspect I’d have been even more nauseatingly down the party line if I hadn’t been the one person who tried to stop the smoking ban going into the last manifesto…

However, much as I loathe the Labour Party, I have to say that this measure is slightly unfair to them. It automatically gives extra weight to disagreement with the Government: it picks the more controversial issues rather than the ones that the Government gets right and other parties have to grumble and nit-pick at; and, more importantly, out of twelve issues nine are ones where the Government line was ‘For’. A positive vote is much easier to pin down than a negative one – so people may find themselves ‘agreeing’ with the Liberal Democrats or Tories on this score merely because they disagree with the Labour Government, when they might actually disagree for very different reasons to either opposition party (or Labour very lukewarm rebel) and not agree at all with what either opposition party would propose instead.

So, much as it goes against the grain to say it, this unfairly magnifies any tendency to disagree with Labour and magnifies unfairly in favour of the Lib Dems and Tories, though the general direction’s probably still roughly accurate.

]]> By: asquith http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48750 asquith Thu, 15 May 2008 17:58:39 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48750 And he's SOFT on FOREIGNERS and GREASY WOGS!!! And he’s SOFT on FOREIGNERS and GREASY WOGS!!!

]]> By: Benjamin http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48749 Benjamin Thu, 15 May 2008 17:53:11 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48749 But he's a Tory Toff (TM)! He's got the hat and everything! But he’s a Tory Toff (TM)! He’s got the hat and everything!

]]> By: asquith http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48747 asquith Thu, 15 May 2008 17:31:44 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48747 I do like Edward Timpson. He sounds like a decent, clean-living young man :) http://eric-hobsbawm.blogspot.com/2008/05/while-i-obviously-will-be-seeking-lib.html I do like Edward Timpson. He sounds like a decent, clean-living young man :)

http://eric-hobsbawm.blogspot.com/2008/05/while-i-obviously-will-be-seeking-lib.html

]]> By: Laurence Boyce http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48746 Laurence Boyce Thu, 15 May 2008 17:22:07 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48746 I came out as Labour, which is very odd. I normally come out as Conservative. :) I came out as Labour, which is very odd. I normally come out as Conservative. :)

]]> By: asquith http://www.libdemvoice.org/crewe-nantwich-by-election-2704.html#comment-48745 asquith Thu, 15 May 2008 17:14:25 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=2704#comment-48745 I got the following results: 1. Lib Dem 2. Conservative 3. Gwynneth Dunwoody 4. Official Labour No surprises there ;) I got the following results:

1. Lib Dem
2. Conservative
3. Gwynneth Dunwoody
4. Official Labour

No surprises there ;)

]]>