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	<title>Comments on: Lord Clement-Jones on the Digital Economy Bill: web blocking amendment</title>
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	<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html</link>
	<description>Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK.</description>
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		<title>By: Some bits and pieces on the #debill &#124; qwghlm.co.uk</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-114437</link>
		<dc:creator>Some bits and pieces on the #debill &#124; qwghlm.co.uk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-114437</guid>
		<description>[...] had doubts); he let his spokesman for culture, media and sport jointly propose with the Tories an utterly illiberal amendment into the Lords. After a backlash from their own party members, Don Foster tried to rally a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] had doubts); he let his spokesman for culture, media and sport jointly propose with the Tories an utterly illiberal amendment into the Lords. After a backlash from their own party members, Don Foster tried to rally a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The LDV Friday Five: 12 March 2010</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-113018</link>
		<dc:creator>The LDV Friday Five: 12 March 2010</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 17:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-113018</guid>
		<description>[...] Lord Clement-Jones on the Digital Economy Bill: web blocking amendment (231) by Tim Clement-Jones. 2. Digital Economy Bill: Parliamentarians reply to prospective [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Lord Clement-Jones on the Digital Economy Bill: web blocking amendment (231) by Tim Clement-Jones. 2. Digital Economy Bill: Parliamentarians reply to prospective [...]</p>
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		<title>By: LDV doesn’t do statporn, but if we did (March ‘10)</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-113015</link>
		<dc:creator>LDV doesn’t do statporn, but if we did (March ‘10)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 17:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-113015</guid>
		<description>[...] Lord Clement-Jones on the Digital Economy Bill: web blocking amendment (246) by Tim Clement-Jones 2. Ooops! Mirror gets poll graph wrong and inflates Labour’s position [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Lord Clement-Jones on the Digital Economy Bill: web blocking amendment (246) by Tim Clement-Jones 2. Ooops! Mirror gets poll graph wrong and inflates Labour’s position [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Obhi</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-111279</link>
		<dc:creator>Obhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-111279</guid>
		<description>LF, the discussion has moved on since this thread started and the Lib Dems unanimously adopted a pro-net-freedom policy at their conference last Sunday: http://www.libdems.org.uk/policy_motions_detail.aspx?pPK=e22de4e4-eebf-41b6-b671-11669fe9c81d&amp;title=Emergency_Motion%3A_Freedom%2C_Creativity_and_the_Internet_-_carried. You can see the latest developments on the Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/UK-Lib-Dems-Save-the-Net/394055569528.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LF, the discussion has moved on since this thread started and the Lib Dems unanimously adopted a pro-net-freedom policy at their conference last Sunday: <a href="http://www.libdems.org.uk/policy_motions_detail.aspx?pPK=e22de4e4-eebf-41b6-b671-11669fe9c81d&#038;title=Emergency_Motion%3A_Freedom%2C_Creativity_and_the_Internet_-_carried" rel="nofollow">http://www.libdems.org.uk/policy_motions_detail.aspx?pPK=e22de4e4-eebf-41b6-b671-11669fe9c81d&#038;title=Emergency_Motion%3A_Freedom%2C_Creativity_and_the_Internet_-_carried</a>. You can see the latest developments on the Facebook page <a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/UK-Lib-Dems-Save-the-Net/394055569528" rel="nofollow">http://www.facebook.com/pages/UK-Lib-Dems-Save-the-Net/394055569528</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: LF</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-111276</link>
		<dc:creator>LF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-111276</guid>
		<description>I will NEVER vote for the LibDems following this ridiculous proposal....This man doesn&#039;t even see the distinction between a CIVIL matter and a CRIMINAL matter - how can a law maker be so utterly stupid?

&quot;Q. But is there not an important distinction to be made, in that child pornography is a criminal offence, while copyright infringement is a civil matter?
A. I don&#039;t think so, no. If you&#039;re infringing somebody&#039;s copyright on the web, it&#039;s something that should not be taking place.&quot; http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/networking/2010/03/04/lib-dem-peer-on-why-site-blocking-is-needed-40070579/

You will never get my vote - and being under 30, that&#039;s a lot of elections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will NEVER vote for the LibDems following this ridiculous proposal&#8230;.This man doesn&#8217;t even see the distinction between a CIVIL matter and a CRIMINAL matter &#8211; how can a law maker be so utterly stupid?</p>
<p>&#8220;Q. But is there not an important distinction to be made, in that child pornography is a criminal offence, while copyright infringement is a civil matter?<br />
A. I don&#8217;t think so, no. If you&#8217;re infringing somebody&#8217;s copyright on the web, it&#8217;s something that should not be taking place.&#8221; <a href="http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/networking/2010/03/04/lib-dem-peer-on-why-site-blocking-is-needed-40070579/" rel="nofollow">http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/networking/2010/03/04/lib-dem-peer-on-why-site-blocking-is-needed-40070579/</a></p>
<p>You will never get my vote &#8211; and being under 30, that&#8217;s a lot of elections.</p>
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		<title>By: S. Merchant</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-110837</link>
		<dc:creator>S. Merchant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-110837</guid>
		<description>If this was about preserving Britons Digital future where are the provisions for helping web developers, chip manufacturers like ARM who are world leaders?? instead we receive this autocratic tripe that is grounded in preserving the last centuries business model. Look forward to &#039;enjoying&#039; a censored/policed internet, either under Mandy or the courts with no real provision for challenging what can very easily be dubious data with the most basic know-how, let alone small businesses and innocent men and women who will have their accounts hacked into. 

Innocent until proven guilty? Forget it.  The next time we lecture the Chinese I wont know whether to laugh or cry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this was about preserving Britons Digital future where are the provisions for helping web developers, chip manufacturers like ARM who are world leaders?? instead we receive this autocratic tripe that is grounded in preserving the last centuries business model. Look forward to &#8216;enjoying&#8217; a censored/policed internet, either under Mandy or the courts with no real provision for challenging what can very easily be dubious data with the most basic know-how, let alone small businesses and innocent men and women who will have their accounts hacked into. </p>
<p>Innocent until proven guilty? Forget it.  The next time we lecture the Chinese I wont know whether to laugh or cry.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Elen</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-110725</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Elen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-110725</guid>
		<description>I do assume that our MPs and Lords will be ensuring that their current and future positions on the Digital Economy Bill respect Party policy defined by the Emergency Motion passed by Conference at the weekend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do assume that our MPs and Lords will be ensuring that their current and future positions on the Digital Economy Bill respect Party policy defined by the Emergency Motion passed by Conference at the weekend.</p>
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		<title>By: John Arnold</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-110586</link>
		<dc:creator>John Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 23:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-110586</guid>
		<description>Lord Clement-Jones. I would like you to know that I strongly disapprove of both the Digital Economy Bill and your recent amendment to it. The Digital Economy Bill will remove automatic copyright from artists, requiring them to register their works and making the theft of their works trivial. In addition, much of the bill that should define terms in relation to this matter is not even written.

Furthermore I find your stance on censoring the internet by blocking access to sites or removing users&#039; access without due process to be naive and unjust. In particular I am extremely concerned that we should not erect our own &quot;great firewall of Great Britain&quot; in the same mould as the way the Chinese government and the Australian government have. 

I understand your amendment has to do with copyright infringement and I am very much in favour of strong copyright - I am, after all, a photographer myself and I wish to continue to sell my work. This is why the Digital Economy Bill is a disaster for copyright law in the UK. It will, through the changes to automatic copyright assignment, make it harder and more expensive to claim copyright while making copyright theft easier and then at the same time it will remove the question of what consitutes copyright infringement and the proper punishment for it from where it belongs - in a court of law, placing that power in the hands of the big business copyright holders.

I urge you to remove your support for this bill in its entirety. I do not want it and I believe that the majority of British people do not want it. I urge you to reflect their views.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lord Clement-Jones. I would like you to know that I strongly disapprove of both the Digital Economy Bill and your recent amendment to it. The Digital Economy Bill will remove automatic copyright from artists, requiring them to register their works and making the theft of their works trivial. In addition, much of the bill that should define terms in relation to this matter is not even written.</p>
<p>Furthermore I find your stance on censoring the internet by blocking access to sites or removing users&#8217; access without due process to be naive and unjust. In particular I am extremely concerned that we should not erect our own &#8220;great firewall of Great Britain&#8221; in the same mould as the way the Chinese government and the Australian government have. </p>
<p>I understand your amendment has to do with copyright infringement and I am very much in favour of strong copyright &#8211; I am, after all, a photographer myself and I wish to continue to sell my work. This is why the Digital Economy Bill is a disaster for copyright law in the UK. It will, through the changes to automatic copyright assignment, make it harder and more expensive to claim copyright while making copyright theft easier and then at the same time it will remove the question of what consitutes copyright infringement and the proper punishment for it from where it belongs &#8211; in a court of law, placing that power in the hands of the big business copyright holders.</p>
<p>I urge you to remove your support for this bill in its entirety. I do not want it and I believe that the majority of British people do not want it. I urge you to reflect their views.</p>
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		<title>By: TheBigotBasher</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-110072</link>
		<dc:creator>TheBigotBasher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-110072</guid>
		<description>I fully support the Freedom Bill; the point I hope I was making is if this bill passes - that bill already needs to be amended. The opposition needs to oppose this bill and when it comes to the process of tidying up bill before the election this should not be passed as a non controversial bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fully support the Freedom Bill; the point I hope I was making is if this bill passes &#8211; that bill already needs to be amended. The opposition needs to oppose this bill and when it comes to the process of tidying up bill before the election this should not be passed as a non controversial bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-110014</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-110014</guid>
		<description>Can we, members of the public, lobby Lord Clement-Jones like the creative industry does? I mean, there must be some kind of a sum that can be &#039;donated&#039; to the party causes to influence his opinion. Hell, we&#039;ll even pitch it for a trip to Maldives!

We want to make our voices heard in the same &#039;special way&#039; as the creative industry does, as I don&#039;t see them posting comments on your blog like the rest of us do.

We want to tell you that if the creative industry wants to shut down a website in Russia, they should do so in Russia, not in the UK (they&#039;ve succeeded in this with allofmp3.com, they can do so with others). They consider themselves to be a global business, but obviously cannot play by global rules and ride the wave on the back of countries like the UK, where people do buy music legitimately. But our wallets are only this deep, and if they want to be pleasing shareholders year on year, they have to come up with other ways to do their business.

They should wake up and realise that it&#039;s about the consumer choice - if I choose to pay for Spotify instead if iTunes but Spotify has only half of the studios in its catalogue, whose fault is this? People do want to pay for the content on the platform of their choice, but if the labels don&#039;t give it to them because they haven&#039;t worked out their digital business plan in the last decade, it&#039;s their fault. Although, I understand that telling you guys all this is like banging my head against the wall.

The creative industry is a BUSINESS and no democratic country should allow any business to intervene into lawmaking process on this scale. Business is about competition and in no way must it be given the right to influence the state to protect its interests that result in forceful and invasive actions against the citizens, who are in their overwhelming majority its consumers.

But after all, it seems this type of amendment is convenient for the both parties. The creative industry, using dubious and error-prone detection methods, would be able to force the denial of a modern basic right to the citizens of the state and the state can use this amendment as a launchpad for even more restrictive measures in the future. The Internet must be regulated only in its social aspect, and no business must have an impact on its operation in any detrimental way, just like no business has an impact on the UK&#039;s road system.

The creative industry isn&#039;t without its problems, but they can blame only themselves for the majority of them.

Oh, another thing - seems like LibDems are forgetting what being &#039;liberal&#039; and being a &#039;democrat&#039; stand for. In this case it is on-way traffic and feels like you are more corporate pluralists, just like the Tories and Labour.

P.S. Please get back to us with regards to that Maldives offer or any other that we can take to make you re-consider your stance and listen to BOTH parties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we, members of the public, lobby Lord Clement-Jones like the creative industry does? I mean, there must be some kind of a sum that can be &#8216;donated&#8217; to the party causes to influence his opinion. Hell, we&#8217;ll even pitch it for a trip to Maldives!</p>
<p>We want to make our voices heard in the same &#8216;special way&#8217; as the creative industry does, as I don&#8217;t see them posting comments on your blog like the rest of us do.</p>
<p>We want to tell you that if the creative industry wants to shut down a website in Russia, they should do so in Russia, not in the UK (they&#8217;ve succeeded in this with allofmp3.com, they can do so with others). They consider themselves to be a global business, but obviously cannot play by global rules and ride the wave on the back of countries like the UK, where people do buy music legitimately. But our wallets are only this deep, and if they want to be pleasing shareholders year on year, they have to come up with other ways to do their business.</p>
<p>They should wake up and realise that it&#8217;s about the consumer choice &#8211; if I choose to pay for Spotify instead if iTunes but Spotify has only half of the studios in its catalogue, whose fault is this? People do want to pay for the content on the platform of their choice, but if the labels don&#8217;t give it to them because they haven&#8217;t worked out their digital business plan in the last decade, it&#8217;s their fault. Although, I understand that telling you guys all this is like banging my head against the wall.</p>
<p>The creative industry is a BUSINESS and no democratic country should allow any business to intervene into lawmaking process on this scale. Business is about competition and in no way must it be given the right to influence the state to protect its interests that result in forceful and invasive actions against the citizens, who are in their overwhelming majority its consumers.</p>
<p>But after all, it seems this type of amendment is convenient for the both parties. The creative industry, using dubious and error-prone detection methods, would be able to force the denial of a modern basic right to the citizens of the state and the state can use this amendment as a launchpad for even more restrictive measures in the future. The Internet must be regulated only in its social aspect, and no business must have an impact on its operation in any detrimental way, just like no business has an impact on the UK&#8217;s road system.</p>
<p>The creative industry isn&#8217;t without its problems, but they can blame only themselves for the majority of them.</p>
<p>Oh, another thing &#8211; seems like LibDems are forgetting what being &#8216;liberal&#8217; and being a &#8216;democrat&#8217; stand for. In this case it is on-way traffic and feels like you are more corporate pluralists, just like the Tories and Labour.</p>
<p>P.S. Please get back to us with regards to that Maldives offer or any other that we can take to make you re-consider your stance and listen to BOTH parties.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Page</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-109938</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Page</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-109938</guid>
		<description>TheBigotBasher, the DEB isn&#039;t in there (yet), but it sounds like &lt;a href=&quot;http://freedom.libdems.org.uk/the-freedom-bill/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the Freedom Bill&lt;/a&gt; addresses your other concerns...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TheBigotBasher, the DEB isn&#8217;t in there (yet), but it sounds like <a href="http://freedom.libdems.org.uk/the-freedom-bill/" rel="nofollow">the Freedom Bill</a> addresses your other concerns&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jock</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-109937</link>
		<dc:creator>Jock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-109937</guid>
		<description>Ah yes, liberal in name.  Sometimes feels that way doesn&#039;t it!

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yes, liberal in name.  Sometimes feels that way doesn&#8217;t it!</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.libdemvoice.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: TheBigotBasher</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-109935</link>
		<dc:creator>TheBigotBasher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-109935</guid>
		<description>MAttGB, I trust you are being sarcastic. The powers also enable the Minister to appoint anyone who plies them with enough drink on a yacht to decide copyright. This will never be someone who takes a realistic view of copyright. It would  always be a Content Industry hack. 

The Tories could  not make the poll tax better. Labour can not make compulsory ID cards better - even if they came with a free fluffy pink teddy bear. This awful lobbyist sponsored, digital economy destroying bill can not be made better either. 

There is a clear way that the Liberal Democrats can gain from this. Fight to either kill the bill before being passed or as a priority bill to repeal should it pass. In fact repeal of this bill and every other civil liberty robbing bill passed by Neo Con Labour over the last 13 years should be a condition of any post election alliance.

The Liberal Democrats should once again take the high ground on civil liberties, Liberal is after all in the Party name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MAttGB, I trust you are being sarcastic. The powers also enable the Minister to appoint anyone who plies them with enough drink on a yacht to decide copyright. This will never be someone who takes a realistic view of copyright. It would  always be a Content Industry hack. </p>
<p>The Tories could  not make the poll tax better. Labour can not make compulsory ID cards better &#8211; even if they came with a free fluffy pink teddy bear. This awful lobbyist sponsored, digital economy destroying bill can not be made better either. </p>
<p>There is a clear way that the Liberal Democrats can gain from this. Fight to either kill the bill before being passed or as a priority bill to repeal should it pass. In fact repeal of this bill and every other civil liberty robbing bill passed by Neo Con Labour over the last 13 years should be a condition of any post election alliance.</p>
<p>The Liberal Democrats should once again take the high ground on civil liberties, Liberal is after all in the Party name.</p>
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		<title>By: MatGB</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-109930</link>
		<dc:creator>MatGB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-109930</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Allowing some future minister to tinker with copyright definitions without scrutiny &lt;/blockquote&gt;I, obviously, oppose this part completely as egregiously stupid.

Except...

There&#039;s a little part of me that wants it past, and then in the next Parlt get an onside minister on these issues (many of ours, a few Labourites, etc).

Rewrite copyright law to stop illegal infringement? OK, let&#039;s change the law to make most of what&#039;s being done perfectly legal...

But no, enabling powers of any sort are WRONG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Allowing some future minister to tinker with copyright definitions without scrutiny </p></blockquote>
<p>I, obviously, oppose this part completely as egregiously stupid.</p>
<p>Except&#8230;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a little part of me that wants it past, and then in the next Parlt get an onside minister on these issues (many of ours, a few Labourites, etc).</p>
<p>Rewrite copyright law to stop illegal infringement? OK, let&#8217;s change the law to make most of what&#8217;s being done perfectly legal&#8230;</p>
<p>But no, enabling powers of any sort are WRONG.</p>
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		<title>By: Jock</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-109905</link>
		<dc:creator>Jock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-109905</guid>
		<description>Indeed - the irony of it all would appear to be that we are now being led to believe that the LD only amendment was actually to remove clause 17 and not replace, this was the C-J/Razzall amendment, and that it was only because this was not gong to get enough support to pass and clause 17 was so egregious, that C-J combined with the Tory Howard to produce 120a.  Given the LD DCMS team&#039;s pronouncements on clause 17 a fair while previously, it should be no surprise that we were going to try almost anything to get rid of it, even if &quot;anything&quot; turned out to be &quot;almost as bad&quot;.

Let&#039;s face it, clause 17 was pretty heinous.  Allowing some future minister to tinker with copyright definitions without scrutiny after whosoever plied them with freebies on their yacht.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed &#8211; the irony of it all would appear to be that we are now being led to believe that the LD only amendment was actually to remove clause 17 and not replace, this was the C-J/Razzall amendment, and that it was only because this was not gong to get enough support to pass and clause 17 was so egregious, that C-J combined with the Tory Howard to produce 120a.  Given the LD DCMS team&#8217;s pronouncements on clause 17 a fair while previously, it should be no surprise that we were going to try almost anything to get rid of it, even if &#8220;anything&#8221; turned out to be &#8220;almost as bad&#8221;.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s face it, clause 17 was pretty heinous.  Allowing some future minister to tinker with copyright definitions without scrutiny after whosoever plied them with freebies on their yacht.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-109904</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-109904</guid>
		<description>Lee asked for debate, well here&#039;s some. The stupidity of the bill has been discussed and articulated above, on other lib dem websites and indeed on hundreds of other web sites across the internet, so I don&#039;t propose to list these, indeed the emergency motion is just about spot on. However to have some debate, lets discuss 120a&#039;s amazing timing (amazingly poor timing that is). A very unpopular law being brought in by the labour party just before a national election has now become known as a lib dem motion - look at web sites everywhere they almost all think its a poor motion and they all refer to it as a lib dem amendment. Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot. The fact is that the emergency motion may pass but Lib Dems don&#039;t have enough seats to defeat the bill -  the damage is done. I could go on but I won&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee asked for debate, well here&#8217;s some. The stupidity of the bill has been discussed and articulated above, on other lib dem websites and indeed on hundreds of other web sites across the internet, so I don&#8217;t propose to list these, indeed the emergency motion is just about spot on. However to have some debate, lets discuss 120a&#8217;s amazing timing (amazingly poor timing that is). A very unpopular law being brought in by the labour party just before a national election has now become known as a lib dem motion &#8211; look at web sites everywhere they almost all think its a poor motion and they all refer to it as a lib dem amendment. Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot. The fact is that the emergency motion may pass but Lib Dems don&#8217;t have enough seats to defeat the bill &#8211;  the damage is done. I could go on but I won&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Bridget Fox</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-109801</link>
		<dc:creator>Bridget Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-109801</guid>
		<description>An emergency motion has gone into LibDem conference. You can read the text at http://bridgetfox.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/that-emergency-motion-in-full/

This motion has been written for LibDems by LibDems so if you agree with it, you certainly should not stop voting LibDem!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An emergency motion has gone into LibDem conference. You can read the text at <a href="http://bridgetfox.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/that-emergency-motion-in-full/" rel="nofollow">http://bridgetfox.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/that-emergency-motion-in-full/</a></p>
<p>This motion has been written for LibDems by LibDems so if you agree with it, you certainly should not stop voting LibDem!</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Griffin</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-109799</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Griffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-109799</guid>
		<description>David. If you want a homogenised viewpoint that you can accessibly agree with rather than disagree and engage in debate with, then the &quot;Liberals&quot; probably aren&#039;t for you in any sense of the word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David. If you want a homogenised viewpoint that you can accessibly agree with rather than disagree and engage in debate with, then the &#8220;Liberals&#8221; probably aren&#8217;t for you in any sense of the word.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-109796</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 13:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-109796</guid>
		<description>Floating voter rapidly floating away from Liberals</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Floating voter rapidly floating away from Liberals</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Griffin</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-web-blocking-lib-dems-18165.html#comment-109726</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Griffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 23:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18165#comment-109726</guid>
		<description>&quot;LOL. It’s precisely because “substantial” can’t be defined that makes the Lib-Dem clause even more ridiculous.&quot;

I have to interject again on this wording issue. Substantial is possibly, though not certainly, a good type of language to use in this law. It once again comes down to loopholes and work arounds. If you define what &quot;substantial&quot; is then you give people scope to &quot;by the book&quot; become legal copyright infringers. By leaving a term like substantial in the text it allows the court to take in to account the precise nature of the accusation, the situation and the relevance of the environment the infringement is taking place in, and come up with it&#039;s own (informed) decision on if it passes the threshold.

The only issue with &quot;substantial&quot; is that it could do with the slightest more definition as to the intent of the wording to ensure there is some form of precedent set in the legal text rather than having to be set by an initial case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;LOL. It’s precisely because “substantial” can’t be defined that makes the Lib-Dem clause even more ridiculous.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have to interject again on this wording issue. Substantial is possibly, though not certainly, a good type of language to use in this law. It once again comes down to loopholes and work arounds. If you define what &#8220;substantial&#8221; is then you give people scope to &#8220;by the book&#8221; become legal copyright infringers. By leaving a term like substantial in the text it allows the court to take in to account the precise nature of the accusation, the situation and the relevance of the environment the infringement is taking place in, and come up with it&#8217;s own (informed) decision on if it passes the threshold.</p>
<p>The only issue with &#8220;substantial&#8221; is that it could do with the slightest more definition as to the intent of the wording to ensure there is some form of precedent set in the legal text rather than having to be set by an initial case.</p>
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