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	<title>Comments on: Euro elections ’09: the LDV verdict</title>
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		<title>By: Herbert Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92472</link>
		<dc:creator>Herbert Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 22:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92472</guid>
		<description>Cathy

Unusually, I thought what Nick Clegg said was spot on.

Maybe you could be a bit more specific about what you mean by &quot;facing people&#039;s grievances&quot;?

When all is said and done the BNP polled less votes than in 2004, and even in percentage terms advanced by only one point.

I am all for addressing people&#039;s legitimate concerns. But I should hate it if the party started to complain about day centres for Afro-Caribbean elders - for example - just to garner a few votes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cathy</p>
<p>Unusually, I thought what Nick Clegg said was spot on.</p>
<p>Maybe you could be a bit more specific about what you mean by &#8220;facing people&#8217;s grievances&#8221;?</p>
<p>When all is said and done the BNP polled less votes than in 2004, and even in percentage terms advanced by only one point.</p>
<p>I am all for addressing people&#8217;s legitimate concerns. But I should hate it if the party started to complain about day centres for Afro-Caribbean elders &#8211; for example &#8211; just to garner a few votes.</p>
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		<title>By: Cathy</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92470</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 22:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92470</guid>
		<description>I absolutely agree with Matthew Huntbach about the BNP - I heard Nick Clegg dithering around the issue on the Today programme this morning with dismay.  His rhetoric on this is no different from the other parties.  Someone HAS to face up to the fact that the &#039;main&#039; parties have consistently failed what the media like to label as the &#039;white working class&#039;, and that we as a society have to face up to that.  In my neighbourhood, a white pensioner is denied a place at a local day centre because it is reserved for Afro-Caribbeean elders - is it any wonder that she feels she is neglected by &#039;society&#039; and &#039;the system&#039;?  To say this is not racist, elitist or exclusive, it is to recognise that the grievances of some of those who have turned away from the mainstream parties might just be a reaction to the fact that they have been pushed aside for far too long.  Who does worst in our state schools - white working class boys.  The reduction in social housing is bound to his those communities who have traditionally relied on it as their source of reliable, decent housing.  Is it any wonder that people in our communities feel alienated, rejected and frightened about their futures?  The BNP are absolutely not their answer - and I was involved in a court case in 2005 when they sued us for libel for leaflets I produced outlining their hideous policies (and they lost!), but we have to get real about people&#039;s grievances and face them head on.  There are brave examples of this in isolated places around the country, but, as a party, we pussy-foot around this just as much as Labour and the Tories.  I hope we have now learnt our lesson that we can no longer afford to do this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely agree with Matthew Huntbach about the BNP &#8211; I heard Nick Clegg dithering around the issue on the Today programme this morning with dismay.  His rhetoric on this is no different from the other parties.  Someone HAS to face up to the fact that the &#8216;main&#8217; parties have consistently failed what the media like to label as the &#8216;white working class&#8217;, and that we as a society have to face up to that.  In my neighbourhood, a white pensioner is denied a place at a local day centre because it is reserved for Afro-Caribbeean elders &#8211; is it any wonder that she feels she is neglected by &#8216;society&#8217; and &#8216;the system&#8217;?  To say this is not racist, elitist or exclusive, it is to recognise that the grievances of some of those who have turned away from the mainstream parties might just be a reaction to the fact that they have been pushed aside for far too long.  Who does worst in our state schools &#8211; white working class boys.  The reduction in social housing is bound to his those communities who have traditionally relied on it as their source of reliable, decent housing.  Is it any wonder that people in our communities feel alienated, rejected and frightened about their futures?  The BNP are absolutely not their answer &#8211; and I was involved in a court case in 2005 when they sued us for libel for leaflets I produced outlining their hideous policies (and they lost!), but we have to get real about people&#8217;s grievances and face them head on.  There are brave examples of this in isolated places around the country, but, as a party, we pussy-foot around this just as much as Labour and the Tories.  I hope we have now learnt our lesson that we can no longer afford to do this.</p>
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		<title>By: Another Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92466</link>
		<dc:creator>Another Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92466</guid>
		<description>The Greens&#039; policy statements on the EU are rather confusing are not clearly laid out, but basically they appear to favour a federalist approach.

They&#039;re opposed to the Lisbon Treaty on the grounds that the structures it puts in place are not democratic enough.

However as it&#039;s the only thing on offer at the moment, I think the Treaty is a small step in the right direction and better than the existing situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Greens&#8217; policy statements on the EU are rather confusing are not clearly laid out, but basically they appear to favour a federalist approach.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re opposed to the Lisbon Treaty on the grounds that the structures it puts in place are not democratic enough.</p>
<p>However as it&#8217;s the only thing on offer at the moment, I think the Treaty is a small step in the right direction and better than the existing situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92461</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92461</guid>
		<description>Yes, Tony you are right, &#039;keep the pound&#039; hardly squares with their &#039;green&#039; agenda.  Are they, for example, in favour of people crossing the Eire/UK border to get cheaper petrol?

I would imagine that they are in favour of globalising &#039;green&#039; issues; nevertheless as an EU political group, they probably have the strongest pan European identity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Tony you are right, &#8216;keep the pound&#8217; hardly squares with their &#8216;green&#8217; agenda.  Are they, for example, in favour of people crossing the Eire/UK border to get cheaper petrol?</p>
<p>I would imagine that they are in favour of globalising &#8216;green&#8217; issues; nevertheless as an EU political group, they probably have the strongest pan European identity.</p>
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		<title>By: tony hill</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92445</link>
		<dc:creator>tony hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92445</guid>
		<description>Are the Greens clearly supporters of the EU?  A recent leaflet I saw had as its first point &#039;Keep the pound&#039; and  its second an anti-globalisation statement.  OK, so neither of those is necessarily incompatible with being pro-Europe, but the implied sub-text definitely is.  In fact, of the six points on the leaflet the BNP could have agreed with 5, and the 6th was &#039;There is no planet B&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are the Greens clearly supporters of the EU?  A recent leaflet I saw had as its first point &#8216;Keep the pound&#8217; and  its second an anti-globalisation statement.  OK, so neither of those is necessarily incompatible with being pro-Europe, but the implied sub-text definitely is.  In fact, of the six points on the leaflet the BNP could have agreed with 5, and the 6th was &#8216;There is no planet B&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92440</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92440</guid>
		<description>Support for a referendum on the Lisbon treaty is a difficult issue.  Perhaps we should have supported it with the proviso  that it should be interpreted as an IN or OUT vote.

The problem is for the Tories that they will be obliged to offer a referendum on any subsequent treaty and the nature of these treaties is that there is always some compromise that is hard to accept.

The horrible truth is that there is a large anti-EU majority at the moment.  Apart from the Liberals only the Greens are clearly supporters of the EU.  Labour has done nothing to promote the image of the EU; it has been content to blame the EU for anything unpopular,but claim more popular actions for itself.  The argument against withdrawal from the EU has simply not been sufficiently addressed.  

The result has been a drift towards a widespread view that the EU does not matter, all it does is waste money and that the UK would be better off outside the EU.  The other parties clearly try to use the issue to marginalise the Liberals, but their disengagement with the EU results in the marginalisation of the UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Support for a referendum on the Lisbon treaty is a difficult issue.  Perhaps we should have supported it with the proviso  that it should be interpreted as an IN or OUT vote.</p>
<p>The problem is for the Tories that they will be obliged to offer a referendum on any subsequent treaty and the nature of these treaties is that there is always some compromise that is hard to accept.</p>
<p>The horrible truth is that there is a large anti-EU majority at the moment.  Apart from the Liberals only the Greens are clearly supporters of the EU.  Labour has done nothing to promote the image of the EU; it has been content to blame the EU for anything unpopular,but claim more popular actions for itself.  The argument against withdrawal from the EU has simply not been sufficiently addressed.  </p>
<p>The result has been a drift towards a widespread view that the EU does not matter, all it does is waste money and that the UK would be better off outside the EU.  The other parties clearly try to use the issue to marginalise the Liberals, but their disengagement with the EU results in the marginalisation of the UK.</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92412</link>
		<dc:creator>Malcolm Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92412</guid>
		<description>Yes, STV would be better than the closed list, but not by much. I&#039;m not convinced that the difference between my 8th and 9th preference should make a difference to who gets elected. Better for accountability would be a proper open-list system, where we can vote for a party and/or an individual. Best way of stopping the BNP (apart from slightly smaller constituencies - even in Yorks they got less than 10% of the vote) is to dissuade people from voting for them. Democracy means allowing the people to make disastrously wrong choices, and hoping they/we learn from them.(General experience seems to be that once Bloody Nasty Party candidates are elected as Councillors they don&#039;t get reelected; that will probably be true of their MEPs as well.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, STV would be better than the closed list, but not by much. I&#8217;m not convinced that the difference between my 8th and 9th preference should make a difference to who gets elected. Better for accountability would be a proper open-list system, where we can vote for a party and/or an individual. Best way of stopping the BNP (apart from slightly smaller constituencies &#8211; even in Yorks they got less than 10% of the vote) is to dissuade people from voting for them. Democracy means allowing the people to make disastrously wrong choices, and hoping they/we learn from them.(General experience seems to be that once Bloody Nasty Party candidates are elected as Councillors they don&#8217;t get reelected; that will probably be true of their MEPs as well.)</p>
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		<title>By: Another Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92408</link>
		<dc:creator>Another Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92408</guid>
		<description>I agree that the electoral system needs to be changed. Under D&#039;Hondt there were thousands of wasted votes in each region. 

STV would obviously be the best alternative. Howver In Denmark they also use D&#039;Hondt, but the parties are able to enter into electoral pacts so that when it comes to the last seat, the party with most support in each pact gets all the votes in that pact. I doubt that the BNP would have won any seats under that system.

A Danish Social Democrat said that it&#039;s better that a vote for them results in a seat for the Social Liberals than any votes being wasted. If only UK politicians were so enlightened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the electoral system needs to be changed. Under D&#8217;Hondt there were thousands of wasted votes in each region. </p>
<p>STV would obviously be the best alternative. Howver In Denmark they also use D&#8217;Hondt, but the parties are able to enter into electoral pacts so that when it comes to the last seat, the party with most support in each pact gets all the votes in that pact. I doubt that the BNP would have won any seats under that system.</p>
<p>A Danish Social Democrat said that it&#8217;s better that a vote for them results in a seat for the Social Liberals than any votes being wasted. If only UK politicians were so enlightened.</p>
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		<title>By: Dominic Hannigan</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92403</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic Hannigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92403</guid>
		<description>We hid from expenses in too many areas. I went for it as the main issue in two wards and got a swing of over 6% across the constituency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We hid from expenses in too many areas. I went for it as the main issue in two wards and got a swing of over 6% across the constituency.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Tall</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92395</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Tall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92395</guid>
		<description>Please note, I&#039;ve updated the election figures to take into account the Scottish results announced this morning. All figures as per the BBC website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please note, I&#8217;ve updated the election figures to take into account the Scottish results announced this morning. All figures as per the BBC website.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Huntbach</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92393</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Huntbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92393</guid>
		<description>It seems the big message of the EU elections, here and elsewhere, is the failure of the left. The biggest failure in market capitalism since the 1930s and the left vote falls? 

The moderate left have lost because people forgot it once had criticisms of all this. The BNP has won because it managed to milk sentiments which once would have led to left votes, indeed it can claim to now to be Britain&#039;s most successful socialist party (albeit a national socialist one ...). The Greens pick up the middle class pseudo-intellectual left vote. 

The far left are such ridiculous people to have failed to get any &quot;see we told you so?&quot; reaction here. One might have understood their priorities in the past few years (i.e. find out what the USA is doing, take the opposite position) had they still been paid by Moscow gold. 

And us? We have been piffling around with trifles rather than building a real narrative on what&#039;s gone wrong, why the rich got rich and the poor got poor and it&#039;s jut become a lot worse with no signs of it getting  better. We got the vote we deserved here. So did Labour. UKIP and the Conservatives got far more than they deserved. The BNP may be horrible, but they have found a gap and exploited it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems the big message of the EU elections, here and elsewhere, is the failure of the left. The biggest failure in market capitalism since the 1930s and the left vote falls? </p>
<p>The moderate left have lost because people forgot it once had criticisms of all this. The BNP has won because it managed to milk sentiments which once would have led to left votes, indeed it can claim to now to be Britain&#8217;s most successful socialist party (albeit a national socialist one &#8230;). The Greens pick up the middle class pseudo-intellectual left vote. </p>
<p>The far left are such ridiculous people to have failed to get any &#8220;see we told you so?&#8221; reaction here. One might have understood their priorities in the past few years (i.e. find out what the USA is doing, take the opposite position) had they still been paid by Moscow gold. </p>
<p>And us? We have been piffling around with trifles rather than building a real narrative on what&#8217;s gone wrong, why the rich got rich and the poor got poor and it&#8217;s jut become a lot worse with no signs of it getting  better. We got the vote we deserved here. So did Labour. UKIP and the Conservatives got far more than they deserved. The BNP may be horrible, but they have found a gap and exploited it.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberal Eye</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92392</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberal Eye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92392</guid>
		<description>At a time when the tectonic plates underpinning the political and economic world that has existed since at least WW2 (and by some measures much longer) we should be winning big time, surfing the wave of the future.  Instead we have as Stephen puts it a &quot;pretty dismal&quot; showing.  Clearly we have lost the wave and need to do some rapid paddling to catch it.

The problem was encapsulated for me by two clips on the BBC results programme last night.  One was a brief interview with Graham Watson, leader of the ALDE group in Brussels.  He welcomed the modest increase in the number of  liberal MEPs. So what?

The second clip was the brief speech by Daniel Hannan who topped the poll for the Coservatives in the SE.  The media has lapped up his adaptation of Dr Seuss into a call for Brown to go.  More significant however, was how he explicitly linked rejecting Lisbon to a process of political reform, empowerment and democratisation extending right down to the local grass roots.  The point he was making is that there is a continuum from Europe at one end of the spectrum through Westminster to the parish council at the other end.  All are deficient democratically-speaking, all need reform.

Now that&#039;s an interesting thought.  It&#039;s also very far from the Clegistas position.  They are fixated with selling a lipsticked pig.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At a time when the tectonic plates underpinning the political and economic world that has existed since at least WW2 (and by some measures much longer) we should be winning big time, surfing the wave of the future.  Instead we have as Stephen puts it a &#8220;pretty dismal&#8221; showing.  Clearly we have lost the wave and need to do some rapid paddling to catch it.</p>
<p>The problem was encapsulated for me by two clips on the BBC results programme last night.  One was a brief interview with Graham Watson, leader of the ALDE group in Brussels.  He welcomed the modest increase in the number of  liberal MEPs. So what?</p>
<p>The second clip was the brief speech by Daniel Hannan who topped the poll for the Coservatives in the SE.  The media has lapped up his adaptation of Dr Seuss into a call for Brown to go.  More significant however, was how he explicitly linked rejecting Lisbon to a process of political reform, empowerment and democratisation extending right down to the local grass roots.  The point he was making is that there is a continuum from Europe at one end of the spectrum through Westminster to the parish council at the other end.  All are deficient democratically-speaking, all need reform.</p>
<p>Now that&#8217;s an interesting thought.  It&#8217;s also very far from the Clegistas position.  They are fixated with selling a lipsticked pig.</p>
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		<title>By: Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92391</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92391</guid>
		<description>Come on guys - in 2004 we had 15% of the vote - a year later at the GE 22% - our best ever as Lib Dems &amp; gained seats. Being down around 1% - but making progress in former Labour areas &amp; the GE still a year away - its still all to play for.I&#039;m sure we will hold off most of the Tories advance in our seats. 
A week is along time in Politics - a year an enternity.
Stay Focused - target &amp; we will do well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on guys &#8211; in 2004 we had 15% of the vote &#8211; a year later at the GE 22% &#8211; our best ever as Lib Dems &amp; gained seats. Being down around 1% &#8211; but making progress in former Labour areas &amp; the GE still a year away &#8211; its still all to play for.I&#8217;m sure we will hold off most of the Tories advance in our seats.<br />
A week is along time in Politics &#8211; a year an enternity.<br />
Stay Focused &#8211; target &amp; we will do well.</p>
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		<title>By: Sesenco</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92390</link>
		<dc:creator>Sesenco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92390</guid>
		<description>The real story of this election is surely the election of the two notorious Nazis, Griffin and Brons.

What will this do the the reputation of this country, I ask you?

The lion&#039;s share of the blame must surely go to the Labour Party, which has done so little to counteract the growing BNP threat. Liberal Democrats, by contrast, have nothing to be ashamed of. It was Liberal Democrats who stopped the Nazis in their tracks in Lewisham, and it is Liberal Democrats who have pushed them out of Burnley. Labour has simply ignored the problem, and Griffin and Brons are the result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real story of this election is surely the election of the two notorious Nazis, Griffin and Brons.</p>
<p>What will this do the the reputation of this country, I ask you?</p>
<p>The lion&#8217;s share of the blame must surely go to the Labour Party, which has done so little to counteract the growing BNP threat. Liberal Democrats, by contrast, have nothing to be ashamed of. It was Liberal Democrats who stopped the Nazis in their tracks in Lewisham, and it is Liberal Democrats who have pushed them out of Burnley. Labour has simply ignored the problem, and Griffin and Brons are the result.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Walter</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92387</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92387</guid>
		<description>Niklas Smith - thank you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Niklas Smith &#8211; thank you</p>
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		<title>By: crewegwyn</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92386</link>
		<dc:creator>crewegwyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92386</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m afraid I&#039;m always just glad to get the Euros out of the way again!

Partly because we always do badly, and partly because my Eurosceptic Liberal views don&#039;t sit well in the party mainstream.

I&#039;m afraid that on my patch evidence of either an air war or a ground war was difficult to find!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;m always just glad to get the Euros out of the way again!</p>
<p>Partly because we always do badly, and partly because my Eurosceptic Liberal views don&#8217;t sit well in the party mainstream.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid that on my patch evidence of either an air war or a ground war was difficult to find!</p>
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		<title>By: ceedee</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92385</link>
		<dc:creator>ceedee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92385</guid>
		<description>The only parties to increase their vote were the Greens (up 200k, +20%) and the BNP (up 100k, +13%) while all four &#039;primary&#039; parties lost votes to disgust and apathy.

The decrease in LibDem votes (down almost half a million) is humiliating but nothing compared to Labour losing over 40% (over 1.5 million!) of theirs.
(The Conservatives received almost 400k fewer votes and even the UKIP vote fell by 200k.)

For me, this a sign of the electorate&#039;s disenchantment with the parliamentary FPTP party system and it&#039;s perceived endemic corruption.
Isn&#039;t it time for PR to become the primary objective?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only parties to increase their vote were the Greens (up 200k, +20%) and the BNP (up 100k, +13%) while all four &#8216;primary&#8217; parties lost votes to disgust and apathy.</p>
<p>The decrease in LibDem votes (down almost half a million) is humiliating but nothing compared to Labour losing over 40% (over 1.5 million!) of theirs.<br />
(The Conservatives received almost 400k fewer votes and even the UKIP vote fell by 200k.)</p>
<p>For me, this a sign of the electorate&#8217;s disenchantment with the parliamentary FPTP party system and it&#8217;s perceived endemic corruption.<br />
Isn&#8217;t it time for PR to become the primary objective?</p>
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		<title>By: Niklas Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92384</link>
		<dc:creator>Niklas Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92384</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s official: we&#039;ve kept our seat in Scotland. SNP 2, Labour 2, Conservative 1, Lib Dem 1.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_10.stm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s official: we&#8217;ve kept our seat in Scotland. SNP 2, Labour 2, Conservative 1, Lib Dem 1.</p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_10.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_10.stm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Niklas Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92383</link>
		<dc:creator>Niklas Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92383</guid>
		<description>@Joe Taylor Condliffe: Me too! None of the constituencies are too large for it to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Joe Taylor Condliffe: Me too! None of the constituencies are too large for it to work.</p>
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		<title>By: Niklas Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/euro-elections-09-the-ldv-verdict-15313.html#comment-92382</link>
		<dc:creator>Niklas Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=15313#comment-92382</guid>
		<description>@Paul Walter: &lt;i&gt;Given that we had a net gain of one against a background of the UK seat allocation going down, this is a remarkable event - as you so astutely point out a reversal of what happened in the counties.&lt;/i&gt;

Our net gain of one is &lt;i&gt;notional&lt;/i&gt;, based on the 2004 results in the current (reduced) constituencies. Compared with our seats in the previous allocation we have lost one (from twelve to eleven). But even if notional it&#039;s still nice!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Paul Walter: <i>Given that we had a net gain of one against a background of the UK seat allocation going down, this is a remarkable event &#8211; as you so astutely point out a reversal of what happened in the counties.</i></p>
<p>Our net gain of one is <i>notional</i>, based on the 2004 results in the current (reduced) constituencies. Compared with our seats in the previous allocation we have lost one (from twelve to eleven). But even if notional it&#8217;s still nice!</p>
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