Comments on: “Some of the Greens’ proposals are staggeringly extreme”

By: Matthew Huntbach

Matthew Huntbach — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:00:20 +0000

The main problem I saw in the London Green Party leaflet for the EU elections is that it wasn’t green enough. It was vaguely social liberal to social democrat, and made encouraging noises about the environment which wouldn’t have been out of place on a LibDem leaflet. In fact, had it been a LibDem leaflet and I was asked for my opinion before it went out, I would have said “Hmm, ok, but you could have said a lot more on the need for strong European co-operation being urgently needed to tackle the inevitable environmental crises we will be facing shortly”.

It ought to be an essential part of Green politics to be scientifically literate. The Green Party is doing a very bad job of putting the green case, just like UKIP is doing a very bad job of putting the anti-EU case. They may be winning votes on emotionalism and the anti-politics mania. They don’t deserve those votes. It is worth pointing out why, though if today’s vote ends up with them doing well and us doing relatively badly, us doing so would probably just be written off as “sour grapes”.

By: Rob Wilson

Rob Wilson — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:42:57 +0000

Eh, this seems a pretty minor thing to chortle at, their economic policies are far more worrying and the reason I didn’t join them after leaving Labour several weeks ago (I’m pretty much an archetypal Liberal but I was exploring my options).

Every doctor I’ve ever talked to about the issue of alternative medicine has said the same thing, ‘if it works, it works’. Frankly AM will never have equal footing in the NHS or private sector, however individual cases have been solved due to the placebo effect. I agree alternative practitioners might need more regulation in terms of possibly posionous/dangerous treatments but if someone wants to get acupuncture over a check-up and some painkillers its noone elses business really, and a waste of time and money for government to bother with.

By: Ruth Bright

Ruth Bright — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:41:47 +0000

Fair enough!

By: Tinter

Tinter — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:18:54 +0000

My apologies, misinformed for not the first time today. Its current availability is bad. But it is still bad for the greens to call for more, on what seems to be near an equal footing to actually effective treatment. I don’t think its silly to attack them for that.

By: Ruth Bright

Ruth Bright — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:13:15 +0000

Tinter – You are wrong. Because of the thalidomide episode women are not given conventional medicines for morning sickness – in my area complementary therapies are offered for extreme morning sickness. I was also referred under the NHS for acupuncture to induce birth because I could not use the powerful drugs which were the usual option. It didn’t work!

I am NOT saying these therapies are a good thing just that they ARE available on the NHS already and that to attack the Greens on this matter is silly.

By: tony hill

tony hill — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:46:13 +0000

I asked a Green Party candidate what their policy on Europe was recently. His reply was, “Order the starter, then complain to the waiter”. I quite like that on reflection.

By: Grammar Police

Grammar Police — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:58:47 +0000

@ Sam
The Greens of course, are a tiny party (much like UKIP/BNP) but that doesn’t mean that they should be ignored. We are right to be worried that they will get MEPs.
Most Green activists I’ve met are “hard left” old-Labour types, whereas most Green voters are not.

By: Herbert Brown

Herbert Brown — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:16:52 +0000

But of course, homeopathy is currently available on the NHS. I’m not sure I can imagine anything more anti-scientific.

By: Tinter

Tinter — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:49:45 +0000

Ruth- They are not available in the way outlined at all. Placebos do not make for good pallative care. In maternity care home birth ect is supported to a degree, but thats not alternative in the same way.

The only thing that is “alternative” is that real medicines have to actually prove they work, while “alternative medicine does not.

Sadly, I believe I may recall that our policy documents are not free from mention of them either, so it doesn’t work in that sense.

By: Ruth Bright

Ruth Bright — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:00:25 +0000

Surely we can come up with a punchier analysis of the Greens than this?

Complementary therapies are already used in the NHS when conventional medicines can’t eg in palliative and maternity care.

By: Wayne

Wayne — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:57:45 +0000

…and have you seem their economic policies? :-0

By: Teek

Teek — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:54:18 +0000

heh, interesting that you should pick up on this Mark - I blogged about it yesterday too... There is a great deal of scrutiny out there on teh internets regarding scientific policy as set by political parties, getting the national media to stand up and listen is a major result. There is a more comprehensive piece on this piece of investigative blogging in The Guardian.

By: Sam

Sam — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:47:08 +0000

Why are you numpties so worried about the Greens? You have 1000s of councillors, 63 MPs and 11 MEPs. The Greens have 100 councillors, 2 MEPs and no MPs. It says a lot about you yellow ragdolls that such a tiny party has you worried. Concerned that they will expose the fact that you stand for nothing, other than “we’re not them and we’re not them”?

By: Craig

Craig — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:40:04 +0000

I think the Liberal Democrats have let the Greens off too lightly in the past with the result that they are competing in a lot of areas of England. I think the party should get after them once these elections are out of the way because frankly a lot their ideas are downright barking. The electorate need to be reminded just what Green policies mean and it ain’t all tree-hugging!

By: MBoy

MBoy — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:03:48 +0000

Yes, this is spot on. Some people have been comparing the increase in Green Party “protest voting” to that which lifted the Liberal Party and Alliance in the 1970′s and 1980′s. However, there really is a key difference, which is that even back then when Liberal policy was quite a bit thinner than it is now, there was real sound economic and philosophical basis to party policy, many of which are now mainstream ideas.

The Green Party on the other hand, has huge swathes of policy that are grossly reactionary, irrational, and even downright dangerous. Supporting the various flavours of medical quackery are just the start of the issue…