Comments on: Laws and Clegg named among 100 most influential figures ‘on the right’ http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:36:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: PeeJay http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-126762 PeeJay Wed, 02 Jun 2010 21:31:10 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-126762 "His [David Laws's] influence will be determined by the degree to which he can encourage his party to fall in line with his views. He will be a key player in any Lib-Con coalition talks." Prophetic. “His [David Laws's] influence will be determined by the degree to which he can encourage his party to fall in line with his views. He will be a key player in any Lib-Con coalition talks.”

Prophetic.

]]> By: Jeremy Hargreaves http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30664 Jeremy Hargreaves Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:48:31 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30664 David Laws is not the Lib Dem DWP spokesperson. The rest of the story is equally factually accurate. David Laws is not the Lib Dem DWP spokesperson. The rest of the story is equally factually accurate.

]]> By: Stephen Tall http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30644 Stephen Tall Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:36:53 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30644 Great minds, Leo - see this <a href="http://www.libdemvoice.org/who-are-the-100-most-influential-liberals-in-the-uk-1439.html" rel="nofollow">new thread</a>. Great minds, Leo – see this new thread.

]]> By: leowatkins http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30643 leowatkins Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:40:19 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30643 as long as we continue to class people in terms of 'left' and 'right', we perpetuate the notion that there need only be 2 choices in British politics - a party of the left and a party of the right. It seems to me that LDV should compile a list of the 100 greatest centrists, as a riposte. as long as we continue to class people in terms of ‘left’ and ‘right’, we perpetuate the notion that there need only be 2 choices in British politics – a party of the left and a party of the right.

It seems to me that LDV should compile a list of the 100 greatest centrists, as a riposte.

]]> By: anonymous http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30621 anonymous Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:29:19 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30621 If they think that Nick Clegg and David Laws are influential Right wingers (well, I agree about them being influential, but doubt the Right wing part for roughly the same reasons than Tristan), funny that they haven't listed Vince Cable, who must be currently more influential, and about as "Right wing" than Clegg and Laws. If they think that Nick Clegg and David Laws are influential Right wingers (well, I agree about them being influential, but doubt the Right wing part for roughly the same reasons than Tristan), funny that they haven’t listed Vince Cable, who must be currently more influential, and about as “Right wing” than Clegg and Laws.

]]> By: Geoffrey Payne http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30613 Geoffrey Payne Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:23:18 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30613 Left - right is a 2 dimensional metaphor that will never adequately describe a multidimensional political world, and yet it's weakness, which is it's simplicity, is also it's strength. We need some kind of shorthand to describe where politicians and political parties are in a way that is quickly understandable. If the metaphor did not exist, it will have to be invented. For me the defining issue in terms of Left - Right is in relation to the distribution of wealth. If you believe that a widening gap, invariably caused by market forces, is either a good thing, or you don't care, then I would say you are on the right. If you believe governments should intervene in the market to lessen the gap, then you are on the left. Judging from the conference we just had, I think the Lib Dems are to the left of Labour, but no one realises that because when the party dropped it's 50% tax rate on high earners, that implied the opposite. Of course our Green taxes are progressive, some say more progressive, but i do not think the electorate realise that. Other issues that the Left or Right support have by association been described as Left or Right. So in the 1980s, the Labour Left believed in civil liberties and civil liberties became a left wing belief system. Today New Labour reject civil liberties as much as Thatcher did, and so where do you place it today? Historically Green politics, feminism, anti-racism, gay rights, civil liberties have all been part of the definition of the left, and today define the Liberal Democrats. There is a fringe that is obsesed with free markets, just as New Labour and the Tories are, but I did not see much evidence of them in Brighton, maybe they have joined the Tories? Left – right is a 2 dimensional metaphor that will never adequately describe a multidimensional political world, and yet it’s weakness, which is it’s simplicity, is also it’s strength. We need some kind of shorthand to describe where politicians and political parties are in a way that is quickly understandable.
If the metaphor did not exist, it will have to be invented.
For me the defining issue in terms of Left – Right is in relation to the distribution of wealth. If you believe that a widening gap, invariably caused by market forces, is either a good thing, or you don’t care, then I would say you are on the right.
If you believe governments should intervene in the market to lessen the gap, then you are on the left.
Judging from the conference we just had, I think the Lib Dems are to the left of Labour, but no one realises that because when the party dropped it’s 50% tax rate on high earners, that implied the opposite. Of course our Green taxes are progressive, some say more progressive, but i do not think the electorate realise that.
Other issues that the Left or Right support have by association been described as Left or Right. So in the 1980s, the Labour Left believed in civil liberties and civil liberties became a left wing belief system. Today New Labour reject civil liberties as much as Thatcher did, and so where do you place it today?
Historically Green politics, feminism, anti-racism, gay rights, civil liberties have all been part of the definition of the left, and today define the Liberal Democrats.
There is a fringe that is obsesed with free markets, just as New Labour and the Tories are, but I did not see much evidence of them in Brighton, maybe they have joined the Tories?

]]> By: helsom http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30612 helsom Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:49:33 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30612 Yup, an old Liberal once called me a fascist because I argued that education should be provided publicly. He thought that state education meant state indoctrination. On the other hand, an American (who I knew had been endlessly kind and generous to others in need) objected to the fact that my college education had been pretty much fully funded by the state -- O dear dead days -- because that was "socialistic". It all depends what your ideological framework is. Yup, an old Liberal once called me a fascist because I argued that education should be provided publicly. He thought that state education meant state indoctrination. On the other hand, an American (who I knew had been endlessly kind and generous to others in need) objected to the fact that my college education had been pretty much fully funded by the state — O dear dead days — because that was “socialistic”. It all depends what your ideological framework is.

]]> By: Tristan Mills http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30611 Tristan Mills Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:48:24 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30611 Its all silly. 'Right wing' can mean almost anything these days. It can mean a 19th Century liberal or radical, or a 19th Century Tory. It can mean an authoritarian racist, or an equalitarian democrat... It pretty much seems to mean someone who is not a socialist... (I wonder how these things cope with free market anti-capitalists or individualist socialist anarchists...) Its all silly.

‘Right wing’ can mean almost anything these days.
It can mean a 19th Century liberal or radical, or a 19th Century Tory.

It can mean an authoritarian racist, or an equalitarian democrat…

It pretty much seems to mean someone who is not a socialist… (I wonder how these things cope with free market anti-capitalists or individualist socialist anarchists…)

]]> By: Chris Paul http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30610 Chris Paul Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:00:34 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30610 Dale is being a silly billy. I'm surprised at Brivati for playing along. If these 100 are the best the Tories/Right have got and their most influential then they're toast. However if Dale is on orders to butter up some donors with name checks (though not so far the gun manufacturer), and big up a candidate or three, wind up some right wing/Tory Lib Dems, and create a further veneer of Equality agendas then whatever. I may try guessing the other 25 if I get a spare moment. I am now off to vote for Sarah Teather in your poll. If I could do Huhne-Teather both I would. imagine pretending she didn't even know what was going on in her own portfolio area. Dale is being a silly billy. I’m surprised at Brivati for playing along. If these 100 are the best the Tories/Right have got and their most influential then they’re toast.

However if Dale is on orders to butter up some donors with name checks (though not so far the gun manufacturer), and big up a candidate or three, wind up some right wing/Tory Lib Dems, and create a further veneer of Equality agendas then whatever.

I may try guessing the other 25 if I get a spare moment.

I am now off to vote for Sarah Teather in your poll. If I could do Huhne-Teather both I would. imagine pretending she didn’t even know what was going on in her own portfolio area.

]]> By: MatGB http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30607 MatGB Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:44:13 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30607 Ah, the old "support markets ergo right wing" thing, always good when someone comes up with that little fallacy, you can shock them with a basic summary of the principles of market socialism or similar. Given it's from Dale, should we take "<i>He will be a key player in any Lib-Con coalition talks.</i>" as posturing or a sign that the Tories are making plans to consider such things? Ah, the old “support markets ergo right wing” thing, always good when someone comes up with that little fallacy, you can shock them with a basic summary of the principles of market socialism or similar.

Given it’s from Dale, should we take “He will be a key player in any Lib-Con coalition talks.” as posturing or a sign that the Tories are making plans to consider such things?

]]> By: Jock http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30605 Jock Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:12:08 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/laws-and-clegg-named-among-100-most-influential-figures-%e2%80%98on-the-right%e2%80%99-1433.html#comment-30605 But note also that Shami Chackrabati is also in the top fifty. And...we haven't even seen the top 25 yet...:) But note also that Shami Chackrabati is also in the top fifty.

And…we haven’t even seen the top 25 yet…:)

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