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	<title>Comments on: LDV post-conference members’ survey (4): what you thought of Make It Happen&#8217;s tax-cuts</title>
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	<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html</link>
	<description>Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK.</description>
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		<title>By: David Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html#comment-63950</link>
		<dc:creator>David Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4368#comment-63950</guid>
		<description>Martin, you are quite right about the way people often react to a dire situation.  They clutch at straws.  They want to believe the impossible.  They fall for the promises of charlatans.  

As you point out, their mood can also become dangerously unstable.  No doubt the menace implied by your comment &quot;You will only need a single ticket&quot; was intentional.  Whether the comment was wise is a different question.

Adolf Hitler understood the politics of desperation all too well.  Those not in favour of Hitler&#039;s populist remedies for 1930s Germany&#039;s anxieties were also given, shall we say, short shrift.

Of course, a simple promise to give everybody some free money (in the depths of a recession!) is morally a million miles away from Hitler&#039;s promise to commit mass murder.  However, the phrase &quot;desperate policies for desperate times&quot; does seem to apply to both cases.  It does not make me proud of my continuing  membership of this Party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin, you are quite right about the way people often react to a dire situation.  They clutch at straws.  They want to believe the impossible.  They fall for the promises of charlatans.  </p>
<p>As you point out, their mood can also become dangerously unstable.  No doubt the menace implied by your comment &#8220;You will only need a single ticket&#8221; was intentional.  Whether the comment was wise is a different question.</p>
<p>Adolf Hitler understood the politics of desperation all too well.  Those not in favour of Hitler&#8217;s populist remedies for 1930s Germany&#8217;s anxieties were also given, shall we say, short shrift.</p>
<p>Of course, a simple promise to give everybody some free money (in the depths of a recession!) is morally a million miles away from Hitler&#8217;s promise to commit mass murder.  However, the phrase &#8220;desperate policies for desperate times&#8221; does seem to apply to both cases.  It does not make me proud of my continuing  membership of this Party.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html#comment-63897</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4368#comment-63897</guid>
		<description>The wording of the question clearly read to me too as being about the amendment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The wording of the question clearly read to me too as being about the amendment.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Griffiths</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html#comment-63894</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Griffiths</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 19:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4368#comment-63894</guid>
		<description>CCF, you seem to be saying that I&#039;m better informed and more astute than most of the LDV forum members. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CCF, you seem to be saying that I&#8217;m better informed and more astute than most of the LDV forum members. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Clegg's Candid Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html#comment-63893</link>
		<dc:creator>Clegg's Candid Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4368#comment-63893</guid>
		<description>&quot;I had no doubt that I was being asked about the amendment&quot;

No doubt people who had followed the debate closely and were prepared to read between the lines could work it out. But remember that most people wouldn&#039;t even have known what the wording of the amendment was unless they were provided with it.

If Stephen had wanted to ask a direct and fair question, why not simply quote the amendment and ask whether people agreed with it?

As it is, the question could scarcely be more loaded. In effect, it conveys, &lt;i&gt;&quot;Nick Clegg wants to cut your taxes if there is money left over after we have met our commitments. Some people disagree with this. Do you endorse Nick Clegg&#039;s approach?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Of course, that&#039;s par for the course, considering the way the amendment was misrepresented by its opponents during the debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I had no doubt that I was being asked about the amendment&#8221;</p>
<p>No doubt people who had followed the debate closely and were prepared to read between the lines could work it out. But remember that most people wouldn&#8217;t even have known what the wording of the amendment was unless they were provided with it.</p>
<p>If Stephen had wanted to ask a direct and fair question, why not simply quote the amendment and ask whether people agreed with it?</p>
<p>As it is, the question could scarcely be more loaded. In effect, it conveys, <i>&#8220;Nick Clegg wants to cut your taxes if there is money left over after we have met our commitments. Some people disagree with this. Do you endorse Nick Clegg&#8217;s approach?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Of course, that&#8217;s par for the course, considering the way the amendment was misrepresented by its opponents during the debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Griffiths</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html#comment-63891</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Griffiths</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4368#comment-63891</guid>
		<description>CCF, when I answered the first question, I had no doubt that I was being asked about the amendment. What do you think I thought I was being asked?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CCF, when I answered the first question, I had no doubt that I was being asked about the amendment. What do you think I thought I was being asked?</p>
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		<title>By: Liberal Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html#comment-63871</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberal Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4368#comment-63871</guid>
		<description>Martin - that&#039;s not the same thing.

It is quite possible to be in favour of the tax cuts for low &amp; middle income households the party agreed last year but to be against going further than that this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin &#8211; that&#8217;s not the same thing.</p>
<p>It is quite possible to be in favour of the tax cuts for low &amp; middle income households the party agreed last year but to be against going further than that this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Hywel Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html#comment-63843</link>
		<dc:creator>Hywel Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4368#comment-63843</guid>
		<description>Another c.£1.5bn of annual spending &quot;commitments&quot;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7636990.stm
&quot;Sir Menzies&#039; paper contains an estimate from the Royal United Services Institute which suggests that the Ministry of Defence&#039;s procurement plans for new equipment are now underfunded by up to £15bn over a 10-year period.&quot;

I&#039;m becoming less convinced of how robust these plans actually are.

And Martin - we&#039;re already talking of 4p income tax cuts for the people your referring to without any of the MiH overall cuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another c.£1.5bn of annual spending &#8220;commitments&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7636990.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7636990.stm</a><br />
&#8220;Sir Menzies&#8217; paper contains an estimate from the Royal United Services Institute which suggests that the Ministry of Defence&#8217;s procurement plans for new equipment are now underfunded by up to £15bn over a 10-year period.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m becoming less convinced of how robust these plans actually are.</p>
<p>And Martin &#8211; we&#8217;re already talking of 4p income tax cuts for the people your referring to without any of the MiH overall cuts.</p>
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		<title>By: Clegg's Candid Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html#comment-63820</link>
		<dc:creator>Clegg's Candid Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4368#comment-63820</guid>
		<description>Stephen Tall

Of course I read it.

What I&#039;m suggesting is that you ask your members whether or not they agreed with the amendment. 

If that&#039;s the question you were trying to ask, I&#039;m afraid you made an abysmal job of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen Tall</p>
<p>Of course I read it.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m suggesting is that you ask your members whether or not they agreed with the amendment. </p>
<p>If that&#8217;s the question you were trying to ask, I&#8217;m afraid you made an abysmal job of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Tall</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html#comment-63802</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Tall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4368#comment-63802</guid>
		<description>Erm, CCF - did you actually read the first question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erm, CCF &#8211; did you actually read the first question?</p>
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		<title>By: Clegg's Candid Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html#comment-63797</link>
		<dc:creator>Clegg's Candid Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4368#comment-63797</guid>
		<description>&quot;A convincing vote, then, in favour of the leadership’s tax-cutting position, though a little less overwhelmingly so than the actual party conference vote (which was nearer to 3:1).&quot;

But that comparison is quite wrong.

The conference voted nearly unanimously for &quot;Make it Happen&quot;.

The contentious issue, of course was the amendment about the relative priority of tax cuts, reducing inequality and tackling global warming.

Why not poll your members on whether or not they agree with the amendment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A convincing vote, then, in favour of the leadership’s tax-cutting position, though a little less overwhelmingly so than the actual party conference vote (which was nearer to 3:1).&#8221;</p>
<p>But that comparison is quite wrong.</p>
<p>The conference voted nearly unanimously for &#8220;Make it Happen&#8221;.</p>
<p>The contentious issue, of course was the amendment about the relative priority of tax cuts, reducing inequality and tackling global warming.</p>
<p>Why not poll your members on whether or not they agree with the amendment?</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Land</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-postconference-members-survey-4-what-you-thought-of-make-it-happens-taxcuts-agenda-4368.html#comment-63793</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Land</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4368#comment-63793</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like those NOT in favour of the tax cuts in the current dire economic situation to come around one of my local estates and explain their reasons to residents. 

You will only need a single ticket.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like those NOT in favour of the tax cuts in the current dire economic situation to come around one of my local estates and explain their reasons to residents. </p>
<p>You will only need a single ticket.</p>
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