Comments on: Newsflash: Lib Dems walk out of House of Commons (updated) http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:36:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: cgp http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41150 cgp Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:13:18 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41150 Jo wrote: "We’re all losing sight of the very stark fact that Ed lost it in the commons to such an extent that he was thrown out. Yes the other MPs walked to hide it but the fact remains that one of our MPs was excluded from debate. That happens so rarely that surely questions about Ed must be raised?" It was clearly a put-up job. The fact that the Lib Dem benches were packed, while the others were virtually empty, makes that obvious. The problem is that the whole "in-out referendum" policy is such a transparent ploy to avoid the issue of the Lisbon treaty, on which the Parliamentary party is so obviously divided, that it would be difficult to sympathise, even had Davey's protest been spontaneous. According to this article by Neil O'Brien, we have now gone back on Clegg's "on-the-hoof" position that we would vote against a referendum on the Lisbon treaty: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/neil_obrien/2008/02/ coming_or_going.html That at least was a clear position. Now it's difficult to disagree with O'Brien's comment, "What a mess". Chris Phillips Jo wrote:
“We’re all losing sight of the very stark fact that Ed lost it in the commons to such an extent that he was thrown out. Yes the other MPs walked to hide it but the fact remains that one of our MPs was excluded from debate. That happens so rarely that surely questions about Ed must be raised?”

It was clearly a put-up job. The fact that the Lib Dem benches were packed, while the others were virtually empty, makes that obvious.

The problem is that the whole “in-out referendum” policy is such a transparent ploy to avoid the issue of the Lisbon treaty, on which the Parliamentary party is so obviously divided, that it would be difficult to sympathise, even had Davey’s protest been spontaneous.

According to this article by Neil O’Brien, we have now gone back on Clegg’s “on-the-hoof” position that we would vote against a referendum on the Lisbon treaty:
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/neil_obrien/2008/02/
coming_or_going.html

That at least was a clear position. Now it’s difficult to disagree with O’Brien’s comment, “What a mess”.

Chris Phillips

]]> By: LiberalHammer http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41147 LiberalHammer Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:33:16 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41147 The whole 'in or out' referendum seems highly contrived and an attempt to divert from not supporting a referendum on the constitutreaty. To most lay observers, reliant upon the views of others, the treaty is highly similar to the constitution. The constitution would have been subject to a referendum. So why not the treaty? And mock outrage by the LDs over an amendment that was never going to happen is frankly disappointing. If the treaty isn't substantively the same thing as the constitution say so and don't hide behind a bogus "real issue is this..." argument. The whole ‘in or out’ referendum seems highly contrived and an attempt to divert from not supporting a referendum on the constitutreaty. To most lay observers, reliant upon the views of others, the treaty is highly similar to the constitution. The constitution would have been subject to a referendum. So why not the treaty?

And mock outrage by the LDs over an amendment that was never going to happen is frankly disappointing. If the treaty isn’t substantively the same thing as the constitution say so and don’t hide behind a bogus “real issue is this…” argument.

]]> By: Jo http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41146 Jo Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:03:58 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41146 We're all losing sight of the very stark fact that Ed lost it in the commons to such an extent that he was thrown out. Yes the other MPs walked to hide it but the fact remains that one of our MPs was excluded from debate. That happens so rarely that surely questions about Ed must be raised? We’re all losing sight of the very stark fact that Ed lost it in the commons to such an extent that he was thrown out. Yes the other MPs walked to hide it but the fact remains that one of our MPs was excluded from debate. That happens so rarely that surely questions about Ed must be raised?

]]> By: Lee Griffin http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41136 Lee Griffin Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:11:00 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41136 Coverage on channel 4 though, not that either situation on both channels is a surprise there. I for one think it's a very great move, orchestrated or not, and it's sure to rile some of the public in to support in the short term. The question, as Graham too puts it, is if Clegg has the chutzpah to raise the ante. Coverage on channel 4 though, not that either situation on both channels is a surprise there.

I for one think it’s a very great move, orchestrated or not, and it’s sure to rile some of the public in to support in the short term. The question, as Graham too puts it, is if Clegg has the chutzpah to raise the ante.

]]> By: john http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41133 john Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:29:54 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41133 not a squeak on news at 10 or even newsnight ... guess they'll have to do it again. Just a thought though, much as the Tories are huffing and puffing and being all prissy, what would have been the consequences had they walked out in protest too? not a squeak on news at 10 or even newsnight … guess they’ll have to do it again.

Just a thought though, much as the Tories are huffing and puffing and being all prissy, what would have been the consequences had they walked out in protest too?

]]> By: Jo http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41123 Jo Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:36:00 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41123 Gosh, who was that? Yes, sorry James :@P Gosh, who was that?

Yes, sorry James :@P

]]> By: Aren't our MPs well behaved? http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41122 Aren't our MPs well behaved? Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:31:53 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41122 Yes the story about Ed and the lemon slice may come out now... Yes the story about Ed and the lemon slice may come out now…

]]> By: Eldoc http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41121 Eldoc Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:29:00 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41121 As usual we've suffered from bad timing again though. Talk about bad luck to see the hostage video coming out now... As usual we’ve suffered from bad timing again though. Talk about bad luck to see the hostage video coming out now…

]]> By: James Graham http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41120 James Graham Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:20:37 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41120 Jo: <blockquote>Wow James changed his tune - all in the space of me cooking superquick fresh pasta and eating it..cripes politics is too darned fast for me</blockquote> Not sure how you can argue that moving from <blockquote>If they are really outraged then the obvious course of action must now surely be to support the Tory amendment? To do anything less smacks of capitulation.</blockquote> ...to <blockquote>It’s absolutely the right thing to do, politically at least, so long as we now subsequently raise the stakes and threaten to vote for the Tory amendment UNLESS we are allowed a vote on holding an in/out referendum.</blockquote> ...represents a change of tune. Indeed, I'm surprised people aren't moaning about my monotonousness! Jo:

Wow James changed his tune – all in the space of me cooking superquick fresh pasta and eating it..cripes politics is too darned fast for me

Not sure how you can argue that moving from

If they are really outraged then the obvious course of action must now surely be to support the Tory amendment? To do anything less smacks of capitulation.

…to

It’s absolutely the right thing to do, politically at least, so long as we now subsequently raise the stakes and threaten to vote for the Tory amendment UNLESS we are allowed a vote on holding an in/out referendum.

…represents a change of tune. Indeed, I’m surprised people aren’t moaning about my monotonousness!

]]> By: Jo http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41113 Jo Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:22:51 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41113 Well you might want to ask some constituents for their views on why their MP wasn't working in the House of Commons this afternoon. Or you may want to ask yourself why you're a member of a party that has MPs so manipulative and contrived... These aren't necessarily my pov I'm just in a very questionning mood tonight and it's coincided with this story!!! Well you might want to ask some constituents for their views on why their MP wasn’t working in the House of Commons this afternoon. Or you may want to ask yourself why you’re a member of a party that has MPs so manipulative and contrived…

These aren’t necessarily my pov I’m just in a very questionning mood tonight and it’s coincided with this story!!!

]]> By: Alix http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41112 Alix Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:14:18 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41112 I still don't understand why the fact that the walk-out was probably "contrived" (or "planned" as you may prefer) is a bad thing. It's about making a point. Point was made. Well done! I still don’t understand why the fact that the walk-out was probably “contrived” (or “planned” as you may prefer) is a bad thing. It’s about making a point. Point was made. Well done!

]]> By: Old Kent BOy http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41111 Old Kent BOy Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:11:06 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41111 Ok, so table an amendment that you know won't be in order and then act outraged when it is not selected. It was so obviously contrived. I'm afraid it came across as a toys out pram hissy fit to me adn Clegg would have been better to drop the policy when he took over. As a media grabbing stunt, shall have to wait until the morning. Ok, so table an amendment that you know won’t be in order and then act outraged when it is not selected. It was so obviously contrived.

I’m afraid it came across as a toys out pram hissy fit to me adn Clegg would have been better to drop the policy when he took over.

As a media grabbing stunt, shall have to wait until the morning.

]]> By: Dominic http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41098 Dominic Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:02:06 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41098 Very much applaud this new 'spikier' approach. If it was a pre-prepared stunt, it was a very good one. For far too long we've been content with being terribly sensible. It's about time we made a bit more noise, challenged the conventions and found different ways to get our point across. Well done Ed! Very much applaud this new ‘spikier’ approach. If it was a pre-prepared stunt, it was a very good one.

For far too long we’ve been content with being terribly sensible. It’s about time we made a bit more noise, challenged the conventions and found different ways to get our point across.

Well done Ed!

]]> By: Hywel Morgan http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41091 Hywel Morgan Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:37:06 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41091 It's about time we stood up to the arcane practices in Parliament in any case. After all we are (or should be) a party who wants to change the system not inherit it. It’s about time we stood up to the arcane practices in Parliament in any case. After all we are (or should be) a party who wants to change the system not inherit it.

]]> By: Stephen Tall http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41090 Stephen Tall Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:31:00 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41090 <strong>New poll (and new article) <a href="http://www.libdemvoice.org/new-poll-were-the-lib-dems-right-to-stage-commons-euro-referendum-walk-out-2234.html" rel="nofollow">now posted here</a>.</strong> New poll (and new article) now posted here.

]]> By: Jo http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41089 Jo Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:29:12 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41089 Wow James changed his tune - all in the space of me cooking superquick fresh pasta and eating it..cripes politics is too darned fast for me Wow James changed his tune – all in the space of me cooking superquick fresh pasta and eating it..cripes politics is too darned fast for me

]]> By: Mike Cox http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41088 Mike Cox Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:23:39 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41088 oops sorry that should be JAMES oops sorry that should be JAMES

]]> By: Mike Cox http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41087 Mike Cox Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:23:02 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41087 Janes you are absolutely spot on. We should be doing more of this. Challenging the cosy status quo, upsetting the stupid and arcane rules Janes you are absolutely spot on. We should be doing more of this. Challenging the cosy status quo, upsetting the stupid and arcane rules

]]> By: James Graham http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41083 James Graham Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:58:45 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41083 It's absolutely the right thing to do, politically at least, so long as we now subsequently raise the stakes and threaten to vote for the Tory amendment UNLESS we are allowed a vote on holding an in/out referendum. Otherwise it is a bit of an empty gesture and will be seen as such. I certainly agree that it is laughable to hear a Tory claim that EU membership is a non-issue though. Not in his party it isn't as he knows better than I. It’s absolutely the right thing to do, politically at least, so long as we now subsequently raise the stakes and threaten to vote for the Tory amendment UNLESS we are allowed a vote on holding an in/out referendum.

Otherwise it is a bit of an empty gesture and will be seen as such.

I certainly agree that it is laughable to hear a Tory claim that EU membership is a non-issue though. Not in his party it isn’t as he knows better than I.

]]> By: Gavin http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41078 Gavin Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:47:52 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/newsflash-lib-dems-walk-out-of-house-of-commons-2233.html#comment-41078 Absolutely agree this was the right thing to do. How extraordinary to see a Tory above suggesting that whether we are in or out of the European Union is a non-issue. How many conservative MPs would sign up for that?! Absolutely agree this was the right thing to do.

How extraordinary to see a Tory above suggesting that whether we are in or out of the European Union is a non-issue. How many conservative MPs would sign up for that?!

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