Comments on: Official: Lib Dem voters more intelligent than Tory and Labour voters (Nationalist, BNP and UKIP voters least intelligent of all) http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:36:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: TJ http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-166781 TJ Sat, 26 Feb 2011 17:56:47 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-166781 Many Lib Dem policies are just not practical. Their ignorance on drug culture is quite astounding. I would suggest that the Liberal 'One Nation' Conservatives probably have the highest IQ of all. Many Lib Dem policies are just not practical. Their ignorance on drug culture is quite astounding. I would suggest that the Liberal ‘One Nation’ Conservatives probably have the highest IQ of all.

]]> By: Mark Williams http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67540 Mark Williams Sat, 08 Nov 2008 13:54:06 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67540 Clear evidence of the Lib Dem bias against the less intelligent. Clear evidence of the Lib Dem bias against the less intelligent.

]]> By: mooncalf http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67185 mooncalf Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:45:40 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67185 Interestingly, the abstract states that: 'The intelligence-Green party voting association was largely accounted for by occupational social class, the intelligence-Liberal Democrat voting association was not.' So the Greens just tend to appeal to a more middle class strata of society, but for us it's something more fundamental (if you place any weight whatever on IQ scores). Interestingly, the abstract states that: ‘The intelligence-Green party voting association was largely accounted for by occupational social class, the intelligence-Liberal Democrat voting association was not.’

So the Greens just tend to appeal to a more middle class strata of society, but for us it’s something more fundamental (if you place any weight whatever on IQ scores).

]]> By: Lonely Wanderer http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67182 Lonely Wanderer Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:27:38 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67182 Let's not rush to concede (not that anyone probably was conceding it) that IQ necessarily measures intelligence. It might just measure the ability to do well in IQ tests. However it does <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iq" rel="nofollow">apparently</a> correlate to some degree with factors such as socioeconomic status and educational attainment, factors which are relevant to Tim's point about the need to connect with a fuller range of communities. So, yes, one strategy (as Mund suggests, tongue-in-cheek perhaps) might be just to wait until society is sufficiently smart to vote LibDem. But then maybe the IQ differences aren't large enough for an increase to lead to a changed vote. And sometimes one just can't afford to wait generations (e.g. climate change, bad wars, poverty, loss of liberties) Or maybe there are other correlating factors (e.g. parental income or education) that are actually the change drivers for both IQ and preference for the LibDems. Or maybe however much society gets smarter, all the parties adapt their policies so that Conservative and Labour policies appeal to the vast majority and LibDem policies appeal to the slightly-smarter. Or maybe everyone gets smarter and the proportion of people interested in politics stays just the same. Alternatively, as Alix reflects, maybe we have an unexamined belief that if we convince the smart people, the rest will ultimately follow. And perhaps that's a good strategy. Who knows? I'd say the evidence is mixed so far... If all this sounds like I don't know what to conclude, you're right! I fear that Anon@12:57 is probably on the money: If one isn't going to abandon principles to gain power, and one can't make the message appealing enough to those who aren't interested in politics, then influencing the debate is the best to hope for. And that's not terrible. Just rather annoying... But I'd rather not believe that just yet, because I think that the Daily Mail, Express, Sun, etc. are not just reflecting their readers' views, but also helping to shape them. And if the two main parties can reach these readers, why can't we? Let’s not rush to concede (not that anyone probably was conceding it) that IQ necessarily measures intelligence. It might just measure the ability to do well in IQ tests. However it does apparently correlate to some degree with factors such as socioeconomic status and educational attainment, factors which are relevant to Tim’s point about the need to connect with a fuller range of communities.

So, yes, one strategy (as Mund suggests, tongue-in-cheek perhaps) might be just to wait until society is sufficiently smart to vote LibDem. But then maybe the IQ differences aren’t large enough for an increase to lead to a changed vote.

And sometimes one just can’t afford to wait generations (e.g. climate change, bad wars, poverty, loss of liberties)

Or maybe there are other correlating factors (e.g. parental income or education) that are actually the change drivers for both IQ and preference for the LibDems.

Or maybe however much society gets smarter, all the parties adapt their policies so that Conservative and Labour policies appeal to the vast majority and LibDem policies appeal to the slightly-smarter.

Or maybe everyone gets smarter and the proportion of people interested in politics stays just the same.

Alternatively, as Alix reflects, maybe we have an unexamined belief that if we convince the smart people, the rest will ultimately follow. And perhaps that’s a good strategy. Who knows? I’d say the evidence is mixed so far…

If all this sounds like I don’t know what to conclude, you’re right! I fear that Anon@12:57 is probably on the money: If one isn’t going to abandon principles to gain power, and one can’t make the message appealing enough to those who aren’t interested in politics, then influencing the debate is the best to hope for. And that’s not terrible. Just rather annoying…

But I’d rather not believe that just yet, because I think that the Daily Mail, Express, Sun, etc. are not just reflecting their readers’ views, but also helping to shape them. And if the two main parties can reach these readers, why can’t we?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67139 Anonymous Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:00:44 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67139 *over the generations. *over the generations.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67138 Anonymous Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:57:25 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67138 Different Duncan, perhaps, though like Mund said, due to Flynn effect the average IQ will rise due to generations. There are of course some ways to make the message of the Lib Dems more clear and understandable also to those, who aren't that interested in politics, but if the message still doesn't appeal to them, the only alternatives are to either abandon your principles or to content to the third place and try to influence the political process through criticism and dialogue. Different Duncan, perhaps, though like Mund said, due to Flynn effect the average IQ will rise due to generations.

There are of course some ways to make the message of the Lib Dems more clear and understandable also to those, who aren’t that interested in politics, but if the message still doesn’t appeal to them, the only alternatives are to either abandon your principles or to content to the third place and try to influence the political process through criticism and dialogue.

]]> By: Alix http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67127 Alix Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:09:08 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67127 It's always been my not particularly well-thought-through belief that if we concentrate on what we're good at, i.e. getting clever people onside and enthusing them, that they will then naturally go about working out good ways to reach the wider spectrum, on account of their being clever people. This is largely on the basis that it works with marketing other products and ideas - i.e. mavens and early adopters typically come from ABC1 and eventually lead C2DE towards the same aspiration/product. Or, in Maslowian terms, pioneers lead the prospectors and eventually the settlers. But it's true that if there is a timescale like this for us it's not easy to discern. Bah, I'll probably give it another ten years before I revise it though. It’s always been my not particularly well-thought-through belief that if we concentrate on what we’re good at, i.e. getting clever people onside and enthusing them, that they will then naturally go about working out good ways to reach the wider spectrum, on account of their being clever people. This is largely on the basis that it works with marketing other products and ideas – i.e. mavens and early adopters typically come from ABC1 and eventually lead C2DE towards the same aspiration/product. Or, in Maslowian terms, pioneers lead the prospectors and eventually the settlers.

But it’s true that if there is a timescale like this for us it’s not easy to discern. Bah, I’ll probably give it another ten years before I revise it though.

]]> By: Different Duncan http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67120 Different Duncan Tue, 04 Nov 2008 11:30:16 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67120 So Anon @ 10.59am, that means we are condemned to 3rd place due to our higher intellect. Alas. So Anon @ 10.59am, that means we are condemned to 3rd place due to our higher intellect.

Alas.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67116 Anonymous Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:59:35 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67116 Tim Leunig, it seems that the BNP is connecting with the communities that the Lib Dems aren't. Maybe the answer would be to adopt some policies from the BNP? Labour and Tories could be seen politically somewhere between the Lib Dems and the BNP (having similar policies with both), and the average IQ of their supporters is also somewhere between the Lib Dems and the BNP. And look, they indeed are drawing support from people with pretty much the full range of IQ/educational attainment, and are more successful than either the Lib Dems or the BNP. So perhaps in order to become successful Lib Dems just have to become like Tories and Labour. Now you just have to decide whether you want to be successful or true to yourselves. Tim Leunig, it seems that the BNP is connecting with the communities that the Lib Dems aren’t. Maybe the answer would be to adopt some policies from the BNP?

Labour and Tories could be seen politically somewhere between the Lib Dems and the BNP (having similar policies with both), and the average IQ of their supporters is also somewhere between the Lib Dems and the BNP. And look, they indeed are drawing support from people with pretty much the full range of IQ/educational attainment, and are more successful than either the Lib Dems or the BNP.

So perhaps in order to become successful Lib Dems just have to become like Tories and Labour. Now you just have to decide whether you want to be successful or true to yourselves.

]]> By: spz http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67115 spz Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:57:28 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67115 That's not a big spread... but it suggests that voters might have higher IQ than average, and non-voters lower IQ than average (with BNP voters in a class of their own). That’s not a big spread… but it suggests that voters might have higher IQ than average, and non-voters lower IQ than average (with BNP voters in a class of their own).

]]> By: Greenfield http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67105 Greenfield Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:19:57 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67105 So the old Liberal slogan, 'Liberals think for themselves', was true! So the old Liberal slogan, ‘Liberals think for themselves’, was true!

]]> By: Mund http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67104 Mund Tue, 04 Nov 2008 07:53:33 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67104 to win an election, ;-0. to win an election, ;-0.

]]> By: Mund http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67103 Mund Tue, 04 Nov 2008 07:53:04 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67103 You're right Tim, and maybe a simpler narrative from LibDems may be very useful. Although it's so easy to do this badly. Hopefully The Flynn effect will mean that in 20 years we will HAVE You’re right Tim, and maybe a simpler narrative from LibDems may be very useful. Although it’s so easy to do this badly.

Hopefully The Flynn effect will mean that in 20 years we will HAVE

]]> By: Tim Leunig http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67077 Tim Leunig Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:18:02 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67077 This shows that we have issues to address: a successful party is likely to be one that draws support from people with pretty much the full range of IQ/educational attainment and so on (just as a successful party is likely to attract support from all ages, genders, ethnicities and so on). It almost certainly shows that there are communities that we are not connecting with, for whatever reason. We need to address that: everyone has one vote, and all votes count equally! (please don't write in about STV at this point, you know what I mean) This shows that we have issues to address: a successful party is likely to be one that draws support from people with pretty much the full range of IQ/educational attainment and so on (just as a successful party is likely to attract support from all ages, genders, ethnicities and so on). It almost certainly shows that there are communities that we are not connecting with, for whatever reason. We need to address that: everyone has one vote, and all votes count equally! (please don’t write in about STV at this point, you know what I mean)

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67073 Anonymous Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:31:12 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67073 Probably that's the reason for the Lib Dems's poor electoral success. Not enough intelligent voters... Probably that’s the reason for the Lib Dems’s poor electoral success. Not enough intelligent voters…

]]> By: Julian H http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67060 Julian H Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:49:57 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67060 Who cares? Woooo! Who cares?

Woooo!

]]> By: Thomas Hemsley http://www.libdemvoice.org/official-lib-dem-voters-more-intelligent-than-tory-and-labour-voters-nationalist-bnp-and-ukip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html#comment-67053 Thomas Hemsley Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:16:07 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=5475#comment-67053 I'm not sure being smarmy about our IQs is going to gain many votes, though... :P I’m not sure being smarmy about our IQs is going to gain many votes, though… :P

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