Comments on: Opinion: A liberal view from Holland http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:13:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Tony Steel http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38758 Tony Steel Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:10:46 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38758 I see you note at the start of your piece the key point in Liberal Democrat history: the old Liberals joining some of the SDP to form the new party. For a party to be successful it requires a range of talents. The experience here in the UK suggests that it is necessary to have a core element of solid party political professionals (like the ex-SDP members of the Lib Dems) commanding a countrywide network of envelope stuffers and leaflet deliverers (as provided by the ex-Liberal contingent). It is crucial that each side plays to its strengths. The lessons of the SDP/Liberal Alliance are useful once more. For example, allowing the Liberals to make their own policy proved disastrous - witness their calls for unilateral nuclear disarmament at the height of the Cold War when Britain was living under mortal threat from the Soviet Union. The adverse impact on the opinion polls of this was predictable. Likewise, the professionals of the party should be placed in key positions at the centre of the management structure, and their skills and talents not wasted by requiring them to deliver leaflets and other mundane tasks. I hope this has been useful to you, it is always valuable to learn from the experiences of those in other countries. I see you note at the start of your piece the key point in Liberal Democrat history: the old Liberals joining some of the SDP to form the new party.

For a party to be successful it requires a range of talents. The experience here in the UK suggests that it is necessary to have a core element of solid party political professionals (like the ex-SDP members of the Lib Dems) commanding a countrywide network of envelope stuffers and leaflet deliverers (as provided by the ex-Liberal contingent).

It is crucial that each side plays to its strengths. The lessons of the SDP/Liberal Alliance are useful once more. For example, allowing the Liberals to make their own policy proved disastrous – witness their calls for unilateral nuclear disarmament at the height of the Cold War when Britain was living under mortal threat from the Soviet Union. The adverse impact on the opinion polls of this was predictable.

Likewise, the professionals of the party should be placed in key positions at the centre of the management structure, and their skills and talents not wasted by requiring them to deliver leaflets and other mundane tasks.

I hope this has been useful to you, it is always valuable to learn from the experiences of those in other countries.

]]> By: Noorderling http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38724 Noorderling Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:02:28 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38724 I'm a social Liberal, who in Britain would vote Lib Dem, but in the Dutch context voted PVDA in the past with a minimum of conviction. If there were elections tomorrow, i probably wouldn't vote at all. I especially don't take D66 very serious after their behaviour in 2006, when first they threatened to leave the government if it decided to pursue the Afghanistan-mission, but then backed down rather clumsily and then a few months left the government over a far less important point. I’m a social Liberal, who in Britain would vote Lib Dem, but in the Dutch context voted PVDA in the past with a minimum of conviction. If there were elections tomorrow, i probably wouldn’t vote at all.
I especially don’t take D66 very serious after their behaviour in 2006, when first they threatened to leave the government if it decided to pursue the Afghanistan-mission, but then backed down rather clumsily and then a few months left the government over a far less important point.

]]> By: Alex Foster http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38722 Alex Foster Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:17:54 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38722 Thanks to all those who have asked for similar articles to be commissioned in future. I will look into it. One note, however - I have tried to get in touch with the British Group of Liberal International, and not had a response. Will try harder! Thanks to all those who have asked for similar articles to be commissioned in future. I will look into it.

One note, however – I have tried to get in touch with the British Group of Liberal International, and not had a response.

Will try harder!

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38715 Anonymous Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:33:09 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38715 Ummm, I thought UK already has two <a href="http://www.libdems.org.uk/" rel="nofollow">liberal</a> <a href="http://www.liberal.org.uk/" rel="nofollow">parties</a>. But even with PR it doesn't always make sense to have several liberal parties, if they can't separately get enough support to get in the parliament. D66 got 3 seats of the 150 in last General Elections in 2006, 6 seats in 2003, 7 in 2002, 14 in 1998 and 24 in 1994. With that kind of development they won't have any seats before long. Ummm, I thought UK already has two liberal parties.

But even with PR it doesn’t always make sense to have several liberal parties, if they can’t separately get enough support to get in the parliament. D66 got 3 seats of the 150 in last General Elections in 2006, 6 seats in 2003, 7 in 2002, 14 in 1998 and 24 in 1994. With that kind of development they won’t have any seats before long.

]]> By: Geoffrey Payne http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38714 Geoffrey Payne Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:18:39 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38714 It makes perfect sense that there are 2 liberal parties in Holland. With a system of PR why not? Maybe we could do the same in this country when we get PR? We will have to work together in government in any case. I lived in Amsterdam in 2000/2001 at a time when gay marriage and euthanisia were being legalised and felt proud to live in a country with D66 in the driving seat. However it was a terrible shock to see it all turn sour with the emergence of Pim Fortuyn and the Christian Democrats soon after. It makes perfect sense that there are 2 liberal parties in Holland. With a system of PR why not? Maybe we could do the same in this country when we get PR? We will have to work together in government in any case.
I lived in Amsterdam in 2000/2001 at a time when gay marriage and euthanisia were being legalised and felt proud to live in a country with D66 in the driving seat.
However it was a terrible shock to see it all turn sour with the emergence of Pim Fortuyn and the Christian Democrats soon after.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38707 Anonymous Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:26:36 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38707 Noorderling: <i>"Unfortunately, it’s impossible to take D66 very seriously."</i> Do you mean that they can't be taken seriously because of their size or because of their policy positions, or because they have brought down two governments they participated to? BTW, I think I have read some of your postings in Politicalbetting.com. Aren't you a supporter of the PvdA yourself? Noorderling: “Unfortunately, it’s impossible to take D66 very seriously.”

Do you mean that they can’t be taken seriously because of their size or because of their policy positions, or because they have brought down two governments they participated to?

BTW, I think I have read some of your postings in Politicalbetting.com. Aren’t you a supporter of the PvdA yourself?

]]> By: Noorderling http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38705 Noorderling Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:37:54 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38705 Anonymous 3:36 The VVD-positions on many issues concerning integration and minorities vary very little from those taken by Wilders and Verdonk. Also on issues like the environment, roadbuilding and crime, the VVD position are very similar to those taken by the British Conservatives. Unfortunately, it's impossible to take D66 very seriously. Anonymous 3:36 The VVD-positions on many issues concerning integration and minorities vary very little from those taken by Wilders and Verdonk. Also on issues like the environment, roadbuilding and crime, the VVD position are very similar to those taken by the British Conservatives. Unfortunately, it’s impossible to take D66 very seriously.

]]> By: David Morton http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38702 David Morton Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:11:42 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38702 Interesting and welcome. Could a thread of this international reports be commissioned? Interesting and welcome. Could a thread of this international reports be commissioned?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38696 Anonymous Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:36:45 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38696 D66 hasn't been very successful in few last General Elections, and the support of the VVD has been dropping, as well. Has there been any discussion about uniting the two Dutch liberal parties? I'd expect it would be easier now when such populists as Geert Wilders and Rita Verdonk have been dismissed from the VVD? D66 hasn’t been very successful in few last General Elections, and the support of the VVD has been dropping, as well. Has there been any discussion about uniting the two Dutch liberal parties? I’d expect it would be easier now when such populists as Geert Wilders and Rita Verdonk have been dismissed from the VVD?

]]> By: John Smith http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38692 John Smith Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:19:44 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38692 A very interesting article - thank you for writing it, thank you LDV for publishing, hopefully we will have more international Liberal views in the future. Most certainly agree with the European Federalism - we should be seeking to spread our Liberal values, and a strong, democratic EU is the best vehicle for doing this. A very interesting article – thank you for writing it, thank you LDV for publishing, hopefully we will have more international Liberal views in the future.

Most certainly agree with the European Federalism – we should be seeking to spread our Liberal values, and a strong, democratic EU is the best vehicle for doing this.

]]> By: Felix Holt http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38688 Felix Holt Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:08:52 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38688 Is D66 still the official name? Might it not sound a little dated to new voters? Perhaps a name change is in order ....??!! Is D66 still the official name? Might it not sound a little dated to new voters? Perhaps a name change is in order ….??!!

]]> By: Terry Gilbert http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38687 Terry Gilbert Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:18 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38687 Thanks, Bernard - I do hope that we in the Lib Dems keep our social liberal policies rather than going down the VVD route. Do please give us the benefit of your perspective on other topics on this forum. Comments on how the Dutch health or education systems works (or not!) compared to our own would be very valuable to our activists. Thanks, Bernard – I do hope that we in the Lib Dems keep our social liberal policies rather than going down the VVD route. Do please give us the benefit of your perspective on other topics on this forum. Comments on how the Dutch health or education systems works (or not!) compared to our own would be very valuable to our activists.

]]> By: Nigel Ashton http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38686 Nigel Ashton Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:17:01 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38686 An interesting article, thank you Bernard. I had good contacts with D'66 in the early 1980s when I was International Vice-Chair of the Young Liberals. I was impressed by Laurens Brinkhorst when he was Leader. Quite a few British Liberals had connections with D'66 in those days and I remember attending the D'66 election night party in Zwolle in 1982. An interesting article, thank you Bernard. I had good contacts with D’66 in the early 1980s when I was International Vice-Chair of the Young Liberals. I was impressed by Laurens Brinkhorst when he was Leader.

Quite a few British Liberals had connections with D’66 in those days and I remember attending the D’66 election night party in Zwolle in 1982.

]]> By: Peter Bancroft http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38682 Peter Bancroft Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:39:14 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38682 This is a great article. There are quite a few part Dutch members of the Lib Dems (including myself), and I've been a happy partner of D66's youth wing since I was a teenager! This is a great article.

There are quite a few part Dutch members of the Lib Dems (including myself), and I’ve been a happy partner of D66′s youth wing since I was a teenager!

]]> By: Dafs http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38679 Dafs Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:44:44 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38679 Yes, very interesting. I heard Louisewies van der Laan speak a couple of times and I thought she was outstanding (isn't there a connection bewtween her and Clegg from their student days?). Can't agree with you about European Federalism though - there's no appetite for this within the Liberal Democrats these days beyond a very small minority. Yes, very interesting. I heard Louisewies van der Laan speak a couple of times and I thought she was outstanding (isn’t there a connection bewtween her and Clegg from their student days?). Can’t agree with you about European Federalism though – there’s no appetite for this within the Liberal Democrats these days beyond a very small minority.

]]> By: boldkevin http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38678 boldkevin Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:34:59 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-a-liberal-view-from-holland-2044.html#comment-38678 Thankyou Bernard, a very interesting and informative article. More like this from our other European colleagues please. Thankyou Bernard, a very interesting and informative article. More like this from our other European colleagues please.

]]>