Comments on: Opinion: So just how strongly did the Lib Dems oppose the Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill? http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:36:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Hywel Morgan http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15993 Hywel Morgan Tue, 29 May 2007 17:27:04 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15993 Nick - I'm glad to hear clarification of your opposition to this bill. I don't think it is misleading people though by quoting what you said at the committee stage. I think "tacit support" is a fair summary of someone who mildly criticises a measure but doesn't vote against or seek to amend it. I can't read your comments at committee stage as being those of someone expressing trenchant opposition. And if your were so opposed to it then why not vote against or propose an amendment? That remaining the case I stand by my criticisms of you for those (in)actions. Will you be signing the EDM (1545) from Simon Hughes and others which doesn't currently include your name? Nick – I’m glad to hear clarification of your opposition to this bill.

I don’t think it is misleading people though by quoting what you said at the committee stage. I think “tacit support” is a fair summary of someone who mildly criticises a measure but doesn’t vote against or seek to amend it.

I can’t read your comments at committee stage as being those of someone expressing trenchant opposition. And if your were so opposed to it then why not vote against or propose an amendment? That remaining the case I stand by my criticisms of you for those (in)actions.

Will you be signing the EDM (1545) from Simon Hughes and others which doesn’t currently include your name?

]]> By: simon wilson http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15604 simon wilson Sat, 26 May 2007 13:41:45 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15604 The poor turnout amongst our MPs was appalling, including our leader I am sorry to admit. The poor turnout amongst our MPs was appalling, including our leader I am sorry to admit.

]]> By: Sid http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15489 Sid Fri, 25 May 2007 10:24:04 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15489 I am glad to hear it, Nick. But since this is the case, why have we allowed the Tories to misrepresent your position so badly? I am glad to hear it, Nick. But since this is the case, why have we allowed the Tories to misrepresent your position so badly?

]]> By: Nick Harvey http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15479 Nick Harvey Fri, 25 May 2007 09:42:17 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15479 I gave interviews on radio/TV, before most folks here even woke up to the issue, opposing the bill and making clear my objections. Anyone who says otherwise is misleading people. I do think Maclean identified a couple of valid concerns – MP correspondence when not covered by Data Protection, and potentially excessive intrusions regarding expenses. But his bill takes a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and we can’t have an FOI Act which excludes the national legislature. When I spoke at the committee, Mark D’Arcy of BBC radio – who sat in - immediately booked an interview with me, because I was the only one present “who spoke against it” (his words). I gave interviews on radio/TV, before most folks here even woke up to the issue, opposing the bill and making clear my objections. Anyone who says otherwise is misleading people. I do think Maclean identified a couple of valid concerns – MP correspondence when not covered by Data Protection, and potentially excessive intrusions regarding expenses. But his bill takes a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and we can’t have an FOI Act which excludes the national legislature. When I spoke at the committee, Mark D’Arcy of BBC radio – who sat in – immediately booked an interview with me, because I was the only one present “who spoke against it” (his words).

]]> By: Eldoc http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15118 Eldoc Tue, 22 May 2007 11:39:13 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15118 It would have been possible to talk the debate out if the Deputy Speakers hadn't granted three closure motions in the course of the afternoon. That many in one sitting is unheard of. It would have been possible to talk the debate out if the Deputy Speakers hadn’t granted three closure motions in the course of the afternoon. That many in one sitting is unheard of.

]]> By: Graeme http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15100 Graeme Tue, 22 May 2007 10:15:49 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15100 I believe part of the plan was also that the bill be "talked out". Even with all the entire parliamentary party there, the Liberal Democrats couldn't have voted the bill down - there were too many Labour MPs (including ministers) backing it. The hope was for the LibDem MPs there to filibuster it, but the MPs in favour of the bill voted for closure motions, forcing it through. I believe part of the plan was also that the bill be “talked out”. Even with all the entire parliamentary party there, the Liberal Democrats couldn’t have voted the bill down – there were too many Labour MPs (including ministers) backing it. The hope was for the LibDem MPs there to filibuster it, but the MPs in favour of the bill voted for closure motions, forcing it through.

]]> By: Eldoc http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15096 Eldoc Tue, 22 May 2007 09:50:46 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15096 It is very important to emphasise the following point: The reason why there was no opposition to the Bill at committee stage is a procedural one. For a Private Member's Bill, the MP in charge is allowed to hand-pick the members of the committee. It is, therefore, unsurprising that the committee tasked with "scrutinising" the Bill was little more than a love-in. That is not to say Nick Harvey did not give succour to the Bill. Yet another "Liberal" who is not worthy of the party. If you can bear MPs falling over themselves to agree with each other in a sickening display of patronage above their electorate, the committee's "debate" can be found at http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmpublic/freedom/070207/am/70207s01.htm It is very important to emphasise the following point:

The reason why there was no opposition to the Bill at committee stage is a procedural one. For a Private Member’s Bill, the MP in charge is allowed to hand-pick the members of the committee. It is, therefore, unsurprising that the committee tasked with “scrutinising” the Bill was little more than a love-in.

That is not to say Nick Harvey did not give succour to the Bill. Yet another “Liberal” who is not worthy of the party.

If you can bear MPs falling over themselves to agree with each other in a sickening display of patronage above their electorate, the committee’s “debate” can be found at http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmpublic/freedom/070207/am/70207s01.htm

]]> By: Letterman http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15051 Letterman Tue, 22 May 2007 01:14:05 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-15051 Glad you're feeling better lynne, I don't want to have a go at individual MPs; there's always going to be occassional individuals that can't make it for one reason or another. But if we're going to talk the talk we should walk the walk, a 3-line whip wouldn't have gone amiss. Glad you’re feeling better lynne, I don’t want to have a go at individual MPs; there’s always going to be occassional individuals that can’t make it for one reason or another. But if we’re going to talk the talk we should walk the walk, a 3-line whip wouldn’t have gone amiss.

]]> By: lynne featherstone http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14995 lynne featherstone Mon, 21 May 2007 18:34:41 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14995 and to further clarify - I was giving out the prizes at the fun run - not running! and to further clarify – I was giving out the prizes at the fun run – not running!

]]> By: lynne featherstone http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14983 lynne featherstone Mon, 21 May 2007 17:17:07 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14983 That is simply not true. I was off parliament all week. The Fun Run was Sunday morning - not Saturday - and was the first day back at my duties after a very painful illness and not yet recovered although back at work. So you're not a real Liberal - just an inaccurate nasty one! That is simply not true. I was off parliament all week. The Fun Run was Sunday morning – not Saturday – and was the first day back at my duties after a very painful illness and not yet recovered although back at work. So you’re not a real Liberal – just an inaccurate nasty one!

]]> By: Real Liberal http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14934 Real Liberal Mon, 21 May 2007 09:00:10 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14934 Lynne Featherstone missed the vote as she claimed that she was in bed with Shingles (poor shingles!). On Saturday she was at a 'fun run' in Crouch End and on Sunday she was being the media tart that she is on the Westminster Hour! Lynne Featherstone missed the vote as she claimed that she was in bed with Shingles (poor shingles!). On Saturday she was at a ‘fun run’ in Crouch End and on Sunday she was being the media tart that she is on the Westminster Hour!

]]> By: James Graham http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14889 James Graham Sun, 20 May 2007 23:12:26 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14889 I think this is largely a case of cock up rather than conspiracy (dishonorable exception: Nick Harvey, taking the same 'neutral' line that of the Tory and Labour front benches). I remember fuming at the time when the Bill got through its second reading (which was immediately after the debate on the Sustainable Communities Bill at which <a href="http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2007-01-19&number=25" rel="nofollow">24 Lib Dems</a> were present), and almost submitted a question to Harrogate conference about it. But the sense I subsequently got from the Parliamentary Party was that it was a genuine oversight at a time when we were all concentrating on other things. The Sus Comm vote is significant for another reason, as it puts the FOIA Bill debate into some perspective. The Sustainable Communities Bill is the result of one of the biggest grassroots campaigns we've seen in recent years, and yet less than a third of MPs were present then, including less than half of Lib Dems. It is incredibly tough to get MPs in the House on a Friday as this is a crucial day for MPs to work in their constituencies if they plan to have some semblance of a private life over the weekend. The FOIA Bill would never have got this far were it not for the complicity of both the Speaker and the Government, period. If the Lib Dems and other opponents underestimated this, they can hardly be blamed as the level of complicity is unprecedented. Bottom line: the party is awake to the danger and has genuinely been doing its best. Perhaps if there were a few more people from other parties willing to stick their necks out, we wouldn't be in this mess. Don't lose sight of who the real villains of this piece are, Hywel. I think this is largely a case of cock up rather than conspiracy (dishonorable exception: Nick Harvey, taking the same ‘neutral’ line that of the Tory and Labour front benches). I remember fuming at the time when the Bill got through its second reading (which was immediately after the debate on the Sustainable Communities Bill at which 24 Lib Dems were present), and almost submitted a question to Harrogate conference about it. But the sense I subsequently got from the Parliamentary Party was that it was a genuine oversight at a time when we were all concentrating on other things.

The Sus Comm vote is significant for another reason, as it puts the FOIA Bill debate into some perspective. The Sustainable Communities Bill is the result of one of the biggest grassroots campaigns we’ve seen in recent years, and yet less than a third of MPs were present then, including less than half of Lib Dems. It is incredibly tough to get MPs in the House on a Friday as this is a crucial day for MPs to work in their constituencies if they plan to have some semblance of a private life over the weekend.

The FOIA Bill would never have got this far were it not for the complicity of both the Speaker and the Government, period. If the Lib Dems and other opponents underestimated this, they can hardly be blamed as the level of complicity is unprecedented.

Bottom line: the party is awake to the danger and has genuinely been doing its best. Perhaps if there were a few more people from other parties willing to stick their necks out, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Don’t lose sight of who the real villains of this piece are, Hywel.

]]> By: nigelashton http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14884 nigelashton Sun, 20 May 2007 22:48:04 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14884 "Lembit missed the meeting of the Welsh party discussing potential coalition arrangements to attend this debate." I thought Lembit stayed in London Thursday night because he was recording HIGNFY “Lembit missed the meeting of the Welsh party discussing potential coalition arrangements to attend this debate.”

I thought Lembit stayed in London Thursday night because he was recording HIGNFY

]]> By: robbeadle http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14882 robbeadle Sun, 20 May 2007 22:39:58 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14882 I think the comments say more about Nick Harvey, than they do about the Lib Dem MPs in general. I think the comments say more about Nick Harvey, than they do about the Lib Dem MPs in general.

]]> By: Simon http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14877 Simon Sun, 20 May 2007 21:51:12 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14877 Paul Burstow is Chief Whip these days. Afraid I agree with Hywel. I know Friday is a constituency day but for only 16 Lib Dems to vote on a Bill we clearly oppose and is an absoloute outrage is pretty pathetic. I believe it was a Labour MP who talked about having to relay on the Lords to put a stop to this nonsense. Given the strong performance of our lords team in reccent years will they be putting their collegues in the lower house to shame? Paul Burstow is Chief Whip these days.

Afraid I agree with Hywel. I know Friday is a constituency day but for only 16 Lib Dems to vote on a Bill we clearly oppose and is an absoloute outrage is pretty pathetic.

I believe it was a Labour MP who talked about having to relay on the Lords to put a stop to this nonsense. Given the strong performance of our lords team in reccent years will they be putting their collegues in the lower house to shame?

]]> By: Laurence Boyce http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14853 Laurence Boyce Sun, 20 May 2007 17:40:19 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14853 To me, this just highlights what a farce House of Commons procedure is, rather than indicating any particular failing on the part of Lib Dems. To me, this just highlights what a farce House of Commons procedure is, rather than indicating any particular failing on the part of Lib Dems.

]]> By: Lady Violet http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14848 Lady Violet Sun, 20 May 2007 17:05:55 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14848 >><i>Looking at some of your other comments here it does read sometimes as if you’re only happy when criticising others</i> Have to agree with that. Love you as we do, you do seem to be turning into a bit of a grumpy old man, Hywel ;) >>Looking at some of your other comments here it does read sometimes as if you’re only happy when criticising others

Have to agree with that. Love you as we do, you do seem to be turning into a bit of a grumpy old man, Hywel ;)

]]> By: johnhemming http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14834 johnhemming Sun, 20 May 2007 14:14:53 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14834 There is a point that the bill is a private members bill upon which normally parties don't whip. Personally I am opposed to the bill, but I had meetings scheduled in Yardley. I would presume that this was the case for many of the other people involved. This bill was unusually brought back without people expecting it. There is a point that the bill is a private members bill upon which normally parties don’t whip.

Personally I am opposed to the bill, but I had meetings scheduled in Yardley. I would presume that this was the case for many of the other people involved. This bill was unusually brought back without people expecting it.

]]> By: Lib Dem member http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14829 Lib Dem member Sun, 20 May 2007 13:26:59 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14829 I am rather disappointed by this piece. It mentions several times how the party has being doing more and more to oppose the bill as it has progressed through Parliament - and the unusual things the party has done (emails, leader in the media etc) to oppose it. Yet the conclusion is all doom and gloom. It seems to me more a case of insisting the glass is a quarter empty rather than mentioning it is three quarters full. Looking at some of your other comments here it does read sometimes as if you're only happy when criticising others :-) I am rather disappointed by this piece.

It mentions several times how the party has being doing more and more to oppose the bill as it has progressed through Parliament – and the unusual things the party has done (emails, leader in the media etc) to oppose it.

Yet the conclusion is all doom and gloom. It seems to me more a case of insisting the glass is a quarter empty rather than mentioning it is three quarters full.

Looking at some of your other comments here it does read sometimes as if you’re only happy when criticising others :-)

]]> By: Patrick Wallace http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14827 Patrick Wallace Sun, 20 May 2007 12:06:04 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-so-just-how-strongly-did-the-lib-dems-oppose-the-freedom-of-information-amendment-bill-827.html#comment-14827 Well, if they won't do their job, then ordinary people can at least sign the e-petiion against this: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/MPs-and-FOI/ Well, if they won’t do their job, then ordinary people can at least sign the e-petiion against this:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/MPs-and-FOI/

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