Comments on: Osborne set to announce fuel tax increases http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 00:35:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: David Allen http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-70028 David Allen Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:57:40 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-70028 Hmm. So we're going to raise fuel duty irrespective of the oil price. So when the oil price is higher, our total government fuel tax receipts will also be higher. Osborne, on the other hand, will react to a price spike by cutting the rate of fuel duty, thereby maintaining his total fuel tax receipts constant. Now it's true that Osborne should now be raising his fuel duty rate back up again, and it's true that he is being rather quiet about that. However, as Tory shenanigans and distortions go, this one seems a fairly minor offence. And it does seem to me that Osborne has a point. Won't our policy just be needlessly difficult to sell, if we insist on clobbering people harder at precisely the same time as OPEC is clobbering them anyway? Wouldn't we have more chance of establishing a robust fuel escalator policy (and holding the line in the face of roadblocking protesters) if we combined it with a stabilising scheme to smooth the peaks and troughs? Hmm. So we’re going to raise fuel duty irrespective of the oil price. So when the oil price is higher, our total government fuel tax receipts will also be higher. Osborne, on the other hand, will react to a price spike by cutting the rate of fuel duty, thereby maintaining his total fuel tax receipts constant.

Now it’s true that Osborne should now be raising his fuel duty rate back up again, and it’s true that he is being rather quiet about that. However, as Tory shenanigans and distortions go, this one seems a fairly minor offence.

And it does seem to me that Osborne has a point. Won’t our policy just be needlessly difficult to sell, if we insist on clobbering people harder at precisely the same time as OPEC is clobbering them anyway? Wouldn’t we have more chance of establishing a robust fuel escalator policy (and holding the line in the face of roadblocking protesters) if we combined it with a stabilising scheme to smooth the peaks and troughs?

]]> By: Hywel Morgan http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-70020 Hywel Morgan Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:26:30 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-70020 Tim - the answer seems to be: "We will keep rises in fuel duty in line with growth to ensure there is always an incentive to save fuel." and also "We will raise Vehicle Excise Duty on the most polluting cars to £2000, and have lower bands to reward clean cars. We will also provide help for rural drivers where cars are essential due to the lack of public transport." http://www.libdems.org.uk/home/green-tax-switch-439116;show Mark is right that this is overall tax neutral but it will introduce a regressive element into an overall progressive package. Tim – the answer seems to be:
“We will keep rises in fuel duty in line with growth to ensure there is always an incentive to save fuel.” and also
“We will raise Vehicle Excise Duty on the most polluting cars to £2000, and have lower bands to reward clean cars. We will also provide help for rural drivers where cars are essential due to the lack of public transport.”
http://www.libdems.org.uk/home/green-tax-switch-439116;show

Mark is right that this is overall tax neutral but it will introduce a regressive element into an overall progressive package.

]]> By: Tim Leunig http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-70014 Tim Leunig Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:01:49 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-70014 I am not sure Oranjepan has answered my question: would we put up petrol taxes now, on environmental grounds, and recycle the money (presumably into income tax cuts to get the basic rate down from 20p to 16p)? If so, how much would we raise petrol taxes by? We know, after all, that petrol is the only product whose tax exceeds the Stern value of carbon, so it is unclear to me from Oranjepan's comment what we would do. I am not sure Oranjepan has answered my question: would we put up petrol taxes now, on environmental grounds, and recycle the money (presumably into income tax cuts to get the basic rate down from 20p to 16p)? If so, how much would we raise petrol taxes by?

We know, after all, that petrol is the only product whose tax exceeds the Stern value of carbon, so it is unclear to me from Oranjepan’s comment what we would do.

]]> By: Mark Pack http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-70011 Mark Pack Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:46:24 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-70011 Tim: clearly you're very keen for an answer :-) Two issues here I think - one is about Osborne's judgement, the other about our policy - which Oranjepan has largely covered above, but remember also that our proposals are revenue neutral, so we would also be giving people money back via other means. Tim: clearly you’re very keen for an answer :-) Two issues here I think – one is about Osborne’s judgement, the other about our policy – which Oranjepan has largely covered above, but remember also that our proposals are revenue neutral, so we would also be giving people money back via other means.

]]> By: Oranjepan http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69994 Oranjepan Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:36:03 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69994 Even with our carbon tax added to petrol prices would still be falling faster than with Osborne's stabiliser. There is a real choice between the parties on this issue. We're promoting fairness by saying that while we need to pay the true costs we're also prepared to pass on any savings. The tories simply want to maintain the status quo. Labour on the other hand seem to be ready to do whatever Mr Dacre's focus group tells them. Even with our carbon tax added to petrol prices would still be falling faster than with Osborne’s stabiliser.

There is a real choice between the parties on this issue.

We’re promoting fairness by saying that while we need to pay the true costs we’re also prepared to pass on any savings.

The tories simply want to maintain the status quo.

Labour on the other hand seem to be ready to do whatever Mr Dacre’s focus group tells them.

]]> By: Tim Leunig http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69988 Tim Leunig Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:13:46 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69988 Mark? Mark?

]]> By: Tim Leunig http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69885 Tim Leunig Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:49:03 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69885 Mark: Come on, answer the q: is it LD policy to raise tax on petrol now that petrol is coming down? Mark: Come on, answer the q: is it LD policy to raise tax on petrol now that petrol is coming down?

]]> By: Tim Leunig http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69700 Tim Leunig Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:24:03 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69700 Mark: What is our current policy on fuel duty? Is it to increase it now? Mark: What is our current policy on fuel duty? Is it to increase it now?

]]> By: Clegg's Candid Friend http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69429 Clegg's Candid Friend Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:46:13 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69429 Andy: "Or are you suggesting that saving the planet should only be allowed as long as the price of petrol is dropping?" Where on earth do you see anything even vaguely resembling that in my post? Andy:
“Or are you suggesting that saving the planet should only be allowed as long as the price of petrol is dropping?”

Where on earth do you see anything even vaguely resembling that in my post?

]]> By: Andy Hinton http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69426 Andy Hinton Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:44:34 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69426 CCF: Yeah, I certainly hope so. Or are you suggesting that saving the planet should only be allowed as long as the price of petrol is dropping? CCF: Yeah, I certainly hope so. Or are you suggesting that saving the planet should only be allowed as long as the price of petrol is dropping?

]]> By: evil g http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69420 evil g Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:28:43 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69420 The liberal party believes in more tax on everything, including petrol. The liberal party believes in more tax on everything, including petrol.

]]> By: Clegg's Candid Friend http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69373 Clegg's Candid Friend Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:33:46 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69373 "If we are really an environmental party, we need to think seriously about starting to support fuel tax rises, once the price drops below a certain level (how about 90p/l?)" Hasn't the party done more than "think about starting to" support fuel tax rises, without any condition on the price dropping? Isn't it already party policy that fuel tax should rise in line with inflation, as part of the "Green Switch"? “If we are really an environmental party, we need to think seriously about starting to support fuel tax rises, once the price drops below a certain level (how about 90p/l?)”

Hasn’t the party done more than “think about starting to” support fuel tax rises, without any condition on the price dropping?

Isn’t it already party policy that fuel tax should rise in line with inflation, as part of the “Green Switch”?

]]> By: Andrew Turvey http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69292 Andrew Turvey Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:24:23 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69292 A fuel escalator is still a good idea in principle - one we should support, although of course denominated in GBP! The months of high fuel prices proved that cost can be very effective way of persuading people to reduce fuel comsumption, switch to smaller cars, car-sharing and public transport. Much more effective than years of inane advertising encouraging us to be green. If we are really an environmental party, we need to think seriously about starting to support fuel tax rises, once the price drops below a certain level (how about 90p/l?) A fuel escalator is still a good idea in principle – one we should support, although of course denominated in GBP!

The months of high fuel prices proved that cost can be very effective way of persuading people to reduce fuel comsumption, switch to smaller cars, car-sharing and public transport. Much more effective than years of inane advertising encouraging us to be green. If we are really an environmental party, we need to think seriously about starting to support fuel tax rises, once the price drops below a certain level (how about 90p/l?)

]]> By: GavinS http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69291 GavinS Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:21:30 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69291 Let it not go unsaid that the SNP proposed these fuel duty increases long before George Osbourne stole their ingenious policy. The fiend. Let it not go unsaid that the SNP proposed these fuel duty increases long before George Osbourne stole their ingenious policy. The fiend.

]]> By: Andy Hinton http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69290 Andy Hinton Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:18:30 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69290 Oops, should read story to end. Bugger. Oops, should read story to end. Bugger.

]]> By: Andy Hinton http://www.libdemvoice.org/osborne-set-to-announce-fuel-tax-increases-6010.html#comment-69289 Andy Hinton Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:17:11 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6010#comment-69289 Um.... well done George Osborne (if true). .. I don't feel well... Um…. well done George Osborne (if true).

..

I don’t feel well…

]]>