Comments on: Progressive London: a front to elect Ken Livingstone? http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 00:55:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Geoffrey Payne http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77533 Geoffrey Payne Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:31:38 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77533 It is inevitable that if Ken brings together a coalition of people that some of them will be Labour chauvinists. In the end, Ken is responsible for what Ken says, not Dawn Butler. It is also true that there are many Liberal Democrats who would prefer a Tory government to a Labour one, so you won't find them at this event either. I am rather perplexed as far as Ken is concerned that his committment to civil liberties is not as strongas it once was, for example his support for ID cards. However there is a Left of Centre group of people out there, some identify as Lib Dems, some as Socialist, some as Green who support civil liberties, support an ethical foreign policy, support a redistribution of wealth who are not being served by New Labour, and it is worth us getting together to work out where our best interests lie. I respect Ken Livingstone for being so frank about the need to keep SW London Lib Dem, you won't get many Labour politicians saying that, particularly those who want to build a career in the party. It is inevitable that if Ken brings together a coalition of people that some of them will be Labour chauvinists. In the end, Ken is responsible for what Ken says, not Dawn Butler.
It is also true that there are many Liberal Democrats who would prefer a Tory government to a Labour one, so you won’t find them at this event either.
I am rather perplexed as far as Ken is concerned that his committment to civil liberties is not as strongas it once was, for example his support for ID cards.
However there is a Left of Centre group of people out there, some identify as Lib Dems, some as Socialist, some as Green who support civil liberties, support an ethical foreign policy, support a redistribution of wealth who are not being served by New Labour, and it is worth us getting together to work out where our best interests lie. I respect Ken Livingstone for being so frank about the need to keep SW London Lib Dem, you won’t get many Labour politicians saying that, particularly those who want to build a career in the party.

]]> By: Noel http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77339 Noel Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:55:44 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77339 We hosted the "young london" workshop which was packed out with people and ideas, ranging from a mentoring scheme between older people working as plumbers and electricians and young people wanting to get into green jobs, Youth Mayor of London who would have their own budget decided by young Londoners with capacity building budgets for neighbourhoods to campaign on localised issues, virtual youth club that would provide training on workers’ rights/campaigning and cooperative schools Are these ideas Labour ideas, Lib Dem ideas, Green ideas or are they ideas we could all rally round? We hosted the “young london” workshop which was packed out with people and ideas, ranging from a mentoring scheme between older people working as plumbers and electricians and young people wanting to get into green jobs, Youth Mayor of London who would have their own budget decided by young Londoners with capacity building budgets for neighbourhoods to campaign on localised issues, virtual youth club that would provide training on workers’ rights/campaigning and cooperative schools

Are these ideas Labour ideas, Lib Dem ideas, Green ideas or are they ideas we could all rally round?

]]> By: Miller 2.0 http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77289 Miller 2.0 Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:54:39 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77289 Ken has selections to think about if he wants to re-run. I think his re-election could be a secondary objective, but I reckon the big one is cutting the Tories and more specifically Boris out of second preferences. Ken has selections to think about if he wants to re-run.

I think his re-election could be a secondary objective, but I reckon the big one is cutting the Tories and more specifically Boris out of second preferences.

]]> By: Nick http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77274 Nick Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:44:20 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77274 Bill seems to have missed the point of the conference. I guess Bill wasn’t there so he would not have heard Mike Tuffrey tell the audience that the way to build a progressive London is not to assume that all 'progressive' forces in London necessarily need agree on all the same things, or how change might be brought about. Mike also went on about how progressive politics was more about a smaller government, having more trust in people, rather than the ever-expanding empire that Mr Livingstone seemed to develop at City Hall. The Thames Gateway Bridge is the classic example of that. Liberal Democrats in London have always opposed the bridge, and always will. Why? Because it is quite clear that local people didn’t want the bridge, nor would it deliver the economic benefit that Transport for London claimed. Politics thrives on dialogues and discussion and just because you may not agree with one particular policy or theory, isn’t an excuse to stop all contact with the opposition. After all Boris Johnson was only too happy last week to adopt the Liberal Democrat plan to extend half price bus travel in London to people in receipt of Job Seekers Allowance. And where did Boris get that idea? From a debate where Mike Tuffrey suggested he do exactly that in November of last year. Bill seems to have missed the point of the conference.

I guess Bill wasn’t there so he would not have heard Mike Tuffrey tell the audience that the way to build a progressive London is not to assume that all ‘progressive’ forces in London necessarily need agree on all the same things, or how change might be brought about. Mike also went on about how progressive politics was more about a smaller government, having more trust in people, rather than the ever-expanding empire that Mr Livingstone seemed to develop at City Hall.

The Thames Gateway Bridge is the classic example of that. Liberal Democrats in London have always opposed the bridge, and always will. Why? Because it is quite clear that local people didn’t want the bridge, nor would it deliver the economic benefit that Transport for London claimed.

Politics thrives on dialogues and discussion and just because you may not agree with one particular policy or theory, isn’t an excuse to stop all contact with the opposition.

After all Boris Johnson was only too happy last week to adopt the Liberal Democrat plan to extend half price bus travel in London to people in receipt of Job Seekers Allowance. And where did Boris get that idea? From a debate where Mike Tuffrey suggested he do exactly that in November of last year.

]]> By: Mellie http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77273 Mellie Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:27:36 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77273 Letters From A Tory says Ken is a "complete irrelevance". This is wishful thinking. Anyone who can pull together the Greens, Respect, Lib Dems, bloggers, trade unions and the left of the Labour Party as well as two cabinet ministers is hardly irrelevant. Lucia's comment is similarly inane. The Tories will smear Ken no matter what he does because they fear him and the coalition he is able to build. Whether this is part of an election campaign isn't the point. Any progressive person should support an campaign to bring together broad forces to stand up to Tory reaction and elitism. Letters From A Tory says Ken is a “complete irrelevance”. This is wishful thinking. Anyone who can pull together the Greens, Respect, Lib Dems, bloggers, trade unions and the left of the Labour Party as well as two cabinet ministers is hardly irrelevant.

Lucia’s comment is similarly inane.

The Tories will smear Ken no matter what he does because they fear him and the coalition he is able to build.

Whether this is part of an election campaign isn’t the point. Any progressive person should support an campaign to bring together broad forces to stand up to Tory reaction and elitism.

]]> By: Bill http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77267 Bill Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:21:26 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77267 The involvement of Lib Dems in Ken's Progressive London is perplexing to voters in all manner of ways. I am but a poor ignorant soul but I thought LDs were opposed to the Thames Gateway Bridge but as part of PL they now apparently support it. I also thought that LDs were opposed to the policy of build what you like where you like as long as it is at least thirty stories high and the site ownership is is vested in an offshore single purpose vehicle ensuring that no UK tax is paid on the profits. Apparently I was wrong about that as well. The involvement of Lib Dems in Ken’s Progressive London is perplexing to voters in all manner of ways.

I am but a poor ignorant soul but I thought LDs were opposed to the Thames Gateway Bridge but as part of PL they now apparently support it.

I also thought that LDs were opposed to the policy of build what you like where you like as long as it is at least thirty stories high and the site ownership is is vested in an offshore single purpose vehicle ensuring that no UK tax is paid on the profits. Apparently I was wrong about that as well.

]]> By: jimjay http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77262 jimjay Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:11:39 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77262 Well, I was rather more positive than you about this by the looks of things - and personally (not being a lib dem or labour but a green) I thought there was quite a lot of lib dem platform time, all of which I rather enjoyed. But I think for those of us who are progressives I think we have a golden opportunity with the mayoral electoral system to stand our own candidates and support the least worst option amongst the others - so if there is an element of "let's get the tories out again" then I'm all for it. I did feel terrible when Boris won and I'd like to help Livingstone regain the mayoralty - and I don't have to join Labour to do that. Having said that the main focus of PL was bringing people together and discussing ideas - which I thought was very useful and positive. Well, I was rather more positive than you about this by the looks of things – and personally (not being a lib dem or labour but a green) I thought there was quite a lot of lib dem platform time, all of which I rather enjoyed.

But I think for those of us who are progressives I think we have a golden opportunity with the mayoral electoral system to stand our own candidates and support the least worst option amongst the others – so if there is an element of “let’s get the tories out again” then I’m all for it.

I did feel terrible when Boris won and I’d like to help Livingstone regain the mayoralty – and I don’t have to join Labour to do that. Having said that the main focus of PL was bringing people together and discussing ideas – which I thought was very useful and positive.

]]> By: David Heigham http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77251 David Heigham Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:13:48 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77251 If Ken Livingstone wants to lead a London Progrssives grouping in the style of the pre-Labour Progressives v. Moderates mould of London politics, he will have to go back to being an independent. Any chance he had of 're-capturing' Labour form New Labour has surely faded forever; and he has to recognise that he has no political future within Labour. If Ken Livingstone wants to lead a London Progrssives grouping in the style of the pre-Labour Progressives v. Moderates mould of London politics, he will have to go back to being an independent. Any chance he had of ‘re-capturing’ Labour form New Labour has surely faded forever; and he has to recognise that he has no political future within Labour.

]]> By: Letters From A Tory http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77236 Letters From A Tory Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:49:32 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77236 When he was Mayor, he was a useless waste of space. Having ceased to be Mayor, he is a useless waste of space. Ken clearly cannot come to terms with the fact that he is a complete irrelevance. www.lettersfromatory.com When he was Mayor, he was a useless waste of space.

Having ceased to be Mayor, he is a useless waste of space. Ken clearly cannot come to terms with the fact that he is a complete irrelevance.

http://www.lettersfromatory.com

]]> By: lucia http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77232 lucia Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:49:08 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77232 Good grief, you must be young if you think Leninspart does anything that will not directly and exclusively benefit him and him alone. And how could you diss Ms Butler, who Obama thinks is so indescribably wonderful? Good grief, you must be young if you think Leninspart does anything that will not directly and exclusively benefit him and him alone.

And how could you diss Ms Butler, who Obama thinks is so indescribably wonderful?

]]> By: Brighton Womble http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77225 Brighton Womble Sun, 25 Jan 2009 23:05:10 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77225 I think the important thing about this Progressive London idea is what it does *after* yesterday's meeting - which I was at myself. I'm someone on the centre left, but not a Labour member, and only a member for two - separate - years, and I would genuinely like to see this work as a way of maintaining the genuinely good things that people like Boris Johnson will happily either allow to rot, or will dismantle. Like some of the major transport projects he's already scrapped. I think the important thing about this Progressive London idea is what it does *after* yesterday’s meeting – which I was at myself. I’m someone on the centre left, but not a Labour member, and only a member for two – separate – years, and I would genuinely like to see this work as a way of maintaining the genuinely good things that people like Boris Johnson will happily either allow to rot, or will dismantle. Like some of the major transport projects he’s already scrapped.

]]> By: John http://www.libdemvoice.org/progressive-london-ken-livingstone-10669.html#comment-77224 John Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:28:39 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=10669#comment-77224 The alternative, Mark, is to steer well clear of Labour front organisations. We only give them credibility by attending. Labour is a broken force, and the more broken they become, the better for Liberal values. Ken L is trying to build a new coalition for himself around opposition to the Tories. We do not need to help him. Rather, we should be leading the opposition to both the Tories in London and Labour in central government, and invite disillusioned Labourites to come over to us. The alternative, Mark, is to steer well clear of Labour front organisations. We only give them credibility by attending. Labour is a broken force, and the more broken they become, the better for Liberal values.

Ken L is trying to build a new coalition for himself around opposition to the Tories. We do not need to help him. Rather, we should be leading the opposition to both the Tories in London and Labour in central government, and invite disillusioned Labourites to come over to us.

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