BBC1, 10.35pm
Tonight’s edition comes from Birmingham (because the Beeb block-booked their hotel for the whole week presumably), so if you’re watching feel free to sound off in the comments thread. And if you’re not watching, it’s generally quite fun to try to work out from the utterly scattered observations on said comment thread what is actually going on.
As last week, we get to bask in the idle satisfaction of fielding the best panellist. Tonight Charles Kennedy will be alongside Home Secretary Jacqui “We’ll just change the law” Smith and Nigel Farage of the Planet of UKIP, Swivel-eye Quadrant, Parallel Universe. Wot no Tory? Not in the advance write-up anyway.
(I note incidentally that the Beeb blurb for QT credits David Dimbleby as “Key talent”, as opposed to the old-fashioned, unmeritocratic “Presenter”. Presumably this follows Beeb guidelines about inclusivity and makes him feel more valued, thereby empowering him to fulfil his personal potential and make a specific and measurable contribution to the organisation’s development as a forward-looking, dynamic and people-friendly organisation.)
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Sigh. The full panel is here.
. . . and why does LDV start a new window when you hit any of the menu items or the header? Never did that before.
. . . ah, it’s because my shift key got stuck down. Sorry.
Evening Lawrence,
I think perhaps our “best panellist” crown may be threatened by Heseltine…
Sigh. Why must Janet Street-Porter speak? I mean, you know, generally.
It seems Nigel Farage must have got bumped, what a shame
Hezza seems a bit past it – expostulating old duffer.
Got dispirited with the Home Secretary’s hyperthyroid glotal stopping banality. Went surfing. June Tabor is in session on BBC 4. A voice to listen to forever. Go now.
…glottal…
To be quite honest I’d rather have Farage than JSP. Or indeed Richard Lambert.
God this is boring. Everything you need to know about the financial crisis: we’re all doomed. Now move on.
I give up . . .
Pretty dull tonight, isn’t it?
Are we having a US VP debate open thread later? Could be a lot more fun…
Now that is a good idea
Everyone back here for that, then? Unless LDV want to open another one?
Having trouble staying awake during abbott and portillo. Yawns. (That’s what having kids does to you, btw!)
Apparently one of the VP candidates has been tanking in debate preparation.
Why we don’t just do away with the election and show West Wing series 7 instead I don’t know. Where is the nuclear leak going to be?
What a yawn. Nothing about proper political topics like broken pavements or electoral systems. All the silly beggars seem to want to talk about is whether we’re all going bankrupt!
Well, to cheer things up, let’s have a little poll. How should we best restore our party’s fortunes in the present climate? Should we go for:
A. Concentrate our efforts on planning recovery from the financial crisis. Relentlessly promote Vince Cable’s unrivalled expertise. Admit that things are serious and it won’t be easy.
Or:
B. Outbid the Tories in offering the more credulous voters money for nothing. Keep things light. Don’t worry too much about whether all the pesky sums add up. Leave the serious stuff to Brown and Cameron.
A and B
Has anyone stayed up for the debate? Apparently it’s tipped to be the most watched of the debate – whether that is because of people tuning in hoping for a car-crash post Katie Couric I don’t know…
Yes, watching the BBC News Channel on the internet with the sound and video annoyingly out of sync.
Get to CNN Laurence. They do know how to do politics with full on stat porn
Hello again. Sat in bed with c-span’s feed up in real player.
This could be interesting. I’m guessing we’re going to know broadly how it’ll go within ten minutes or so.
Flicked over to BBC – see what you mean. Mind you he said that past Vice-presidential debates have delivered some memorable moments.
Other than Lloyd Bentsen “Senator your no Jack Kennedy…” can anyone name one?
“Can I call you Joe?” Hmm…
Very straighforward “folksiness” tactic from Palin, right off the bat.
Ultra-superficial point. Who tied Biden’s tie it looks awful. Or did his wife cut it in half just before he went on
Palin criticises Obama for voting along party lines 90% of the time – unlike McCain. Maybe Democrat policies are better? Just a thought.
Dial groups jump off the screen when Palin lays into greedy bankers. But I don’t need a focus gropu to tell you that!
Hywel – Biden’s wife died in a car crash just after he wa elected to the Senate in the 1970s.
Biden is making the key point here. Republicans are the party of deregulation and look where that got us. The financial crisis has probably handed the contest to Obama.
10 minutes in, and Palin looks like she’s doing ok so far – plausible and apparently on top of the details. Can it last?
Biden getting a bit pokey – channelling his attacks on Palin through the chair. The big problem for Biden is how does he land some blows without looking either aggressive or patronising.
INteresting watching the dial groups on CNN – women voters seem consistently to give both candidates higher rankings,
Thanks Terry – my faux pas of a West Wing reference exposed for posterity
Biden is doing just great. Palin is very scripted – reeling off the answers she has be cribbing all week.
Think you’ve got it about right Laurence – but Biden can’t really win tonight such are expectations. Not losing is his objective.
Biden is starting to list too much… It’s all good stuff, but do the uncommitted voters prefer the simpler messages from Palin?
Biden really does just exude command of the issues. Palin’s answers are padded out with folksy guff way more than Biden’s. But is that going to be clear to voters?
And Palin accidentally summarises the Republican philosophy in a sound-bite: “In five weeks I haven’t promised anything…”
Hywel: Not losing is his only possibility? Why? Expectations are all over the place on this one. Either candidate could run off at the mouth on something and produce a car-crash. Biden’s task here is to open up an opportunity for Palin to crash. It wouldn’t be an obvious win, but it would be a win nonetheless.
ANdy – looking at the CNN dial groups yes – Biden seems to score higher ratings. Interestingly seems to do better among women than Palin is.
The CNN group is uncomitted voters in Ohio. I would not admit to being an uncommitted voter in Ohio as I think it might get you a lot of mail and phone calls in the next 54 weeks
Should Biden try asking Palin direct questions in the follow-up: “Do you support the plan? Why not?”
errr 4-5 weeks obviously!
Oo-er. Both starting to repeat themselves.
I’m not interested in the causes (because that might imply a responsibility to stop doing the things that are causing it), I’m mostly just interested in mitigating the effects of climate change.
“Q: Governor Palin – how can you hope to understand what to do about climate change if you don’t attempt to understand the causes?”
Excellent response by Biden on drilling.
“Should Biden try asking Palin direct questions in the follow-up: “Do you support the plan? Why not?”
No – quickly starts to make him look aggressive.
Though I’d typed that before his comeback on climate change so maybe the odd one is OK!
Completely confused answer from Palin on gay couples. I really hope Biden tears it apart.
CNN analyst scores (6 of them)
Biden +41 – 5
Palin +38 – 21
Onto gay rights – did you know that exit polls had 23% of homosexuals voting for Bush (according to Wikipedia). He also got the votes of 13% of liberals. Go figure
Did anyone understand Palin’s response on gay rights?
Iraq – this is where Biden should skewer Palin….
Interesting that Palin hit 80-90% with men on drill baby drill….(thanks for that statporn tip above, btw.)
Palin is clearly reading off a lot of what she’s saying.
palpable hit for Biden on McCain voting on troop funding, whereas her ratings were low on the issue.
Ahmadinejad isn’t mentally stable?
CNN analysts
Biden +61 -11
Palin +47 -28
(I have no idea how they are working out these figures – I’m just adding up the totals of the 6 analyst)
Stats say Biden is whipping her on Iran, etc. Go Joe!
I’m not sure I need stats to tell me that Joe is winning on the Middle East and on Israel/Palestine.
Yes, Biden was good on Iran and Pakistan. But I got lost in the posturing by both Palin and Biden on Israel.
“I’m not sure I need stats to tell me that Joe is winning on the Middle East and on Israel/Palestine.”
If he wasn’t he would be in such deep trouble….
Thanks for the analysts view Hywel – I’m watching men and women dial groups – Uncle Joe seems to be doing better among women than Wailin’ Palin.
I’d concur (seeing the same figures) which is interesting. I thought Palin would do better among women – not the disillusioned Hilary Democrats as much as conservative leaning middle class soccer/security mom type votes.
She hardly got a blip for criticising his vote on the war. Great that Ohio at least can see through her.
Re Biden’s vote for the war: Was Palin wanting to paint him as a hypocrite? Perhaps his journey from pro to no is similar to voters’ journey, and so they can forgive.
Washington Post Fact Checker says:
“Sarah Palin just asserted that Sen. Joseph Biden backed John McCain’s military policies until this presidential race. That is flatly false. Biden was an outspoken opponent of President Bush’s troop increases in Iraq as soon as Bush announced them after the 2006 elections. As Foreign Relations Committee Chairman, he led the most heated hearings before the troops were actually deployed.”
Biden doing his LBJ Great Society bit…after taking over from a dead young president??
Women voters being rather cooler towards Palin than men is a fairly well noted trend amongst the more traditional polls, too. I guess women find it easier to get past all the Republican spin about it being sexist to know more than your opponent who happens to be female.
She’s beginning to outscore him, though mentions of Scranton, DL doing as well as Wasila, AL .
She took a huge dip on children with special needs! A beauty pageant quote? The audience saw through it.
LOL – Palin can’t find the question about Cheney’s view of the Executive Branch in her notes!
I disagree with the voters re special needs – that the first time I thought Palin actually seemed genuine. Maybe I’m easily fooled…
V High scores for Biden’s life story there.
Getting a bit dull this…. I wonder what’s happening with the audience figures? I suspect they’ve dropped off fairly markedly.
Mind you of course in the US it’s not 3:30 in the morning!
LW – yeah, I couldn’t believe it either. Maybe we have fewer beauty pageants over here, so we’re not so cynical?
Biden reciting his opposition to Bork’s supreme court appointment. They talk of little else in the Rutland Arms as Lord Bonkers would say
Hehe… but Biden’s done well to keep his garrulousness in check…
Palin gave a summary speech… and then got asked to give one again!
Cornball endings! Couldn’t get away with that in Britain, surely…?
Phew I’m knackered, and have to get up to take the little one to playgroup!
I’m pleasantly surprised that Biden appeared so folksy, I think he did at least as well as could be expected. He clearly won on intellect and knowledge, while score drawing on the down home hockey mom stuff.
No, probably not. Just as well they’re not here, then!
Well, neither of them cocked it up, so expectations of anyone hoping for a car crash from Palin would have been dashed. Nonetheless, Biden was able to sound massively more plausible, and I’d say he won it more convincingly than Obama won the first debate.
But lets see what the polls bring…
I think there were four of left at the end? Goodnight folks!
Four of us, I mean
Anyway, I’d better get some sleep, I’ve got to get down to Cambridge to warm a house tomorrow. Good night, Hywel, Terry and Lonely (I assume Lawrence fell asleep somewhere along the way?), nice to have the company.
Biden didn’t lose. One hurdle out of the way which is good for Obama. Unless something major happens I think it’s probably a case of how big he wins. And I’m kicking myself for wimping out on buying Obama at 296EV on the spread markets a couple of days ago
I agree. No major gaffes. Neither did harm to their respective bosses. Palin proved herself less hopeless than many thought. Biden usefully knocked several McCain themes on the head.
And so to bed!
Sounds like an interesting debate.
I just watched Question Time and then went to bed…
I’m guessing that neither of them touched on healthcare or education? No? Ah well.
Er… well yes, they did cover healthcare. Education got a mention, but nothing very substantive.
Apols to Hywel – Biden remarried in 1977. Perhaps his second wife did tie his tie, after all.
Not a West Wing fan Terry? The reference is to the debate for Bartlet’s second election when his wife cuts his tie in half just before he goes on stage to give him an adrenaline buzz. In the first election debate Bartlet had set fire to his tie when having a sneaky pre-debate ciggie
I think I do remember it, now you tell me. We got rather lost after the repeats started on More 4 and never got hooked again. Marie was never that hooked anyway. Certainly not enough to cut my tie off.
Incidentally, CNN’s poll scored it for Biden last night – 51% thought he won to 36% for her. 87% think he is qualified for the job to her 42%. Fingers crossed.
Those sound like good stats to me