Comments on: Refreshingly frank or recklessly foolish? Darling paints picture of economic gloom http://www.libdemvoice.org/refreshingly-frank-or-recklessly-foolish-darling-paints-picture-of-economic-gloom-3343.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:36:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Peter Bancroft http://www.libdemvoice.org/refreshingly-frank-or-recklessly-foolish-darling-paints-picture-of-economic-gloom-3343.html#comment-59707 Peter Bancroft Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:37:25 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=3343#comment-59707 Tightening access to credit overall would be more of a contributor to poverty than something helpful. Mohammed Younus didn't win the Nobel Prize for being a loan-shark for no reason, after all. I'd like to see some legislation about the proactive targeting of people with dodgy credit histories for ultra-high interest loans, but access to credit is an asset and it would be counter-productive and paternalist in the extreme to legislate that companies can no longer lend to people who we think are too poor and hence irresponsible. As for our Anglo-Saxon model of free markets (i.e. not neo-liberalism at all), it's pretty comprehensively been shown to be far superior to alternatives, which is why it is completely dominant in the EU and North America, helped create the economies of the Asian tigers, is driving growth in India and China and which is now only being held back by nationalism and ill-placed protests at the WTO. It's true that liberal economics suffers from economic cycles, but the alternatives suffer from having economic peaks far worst than the worst recession we've ever seen. It's just a shame that each time recession looms, some people's memories of the bad old days of nationalist economic collapse always seem rather fuzzy. Tightening access to credit overall would be more of a contributor to poverty than something helpful. Mohammed Younus didn’t win the Nobel Prize for being a loan-shark for no reason, after all.

I’d like to see some legislation about the proactive targeting of people with dodgy credit histories for ultra-high interest loans, but access to credit is an asset and it would be counter-productive and paternalist in the extreme to legislate that companies can no longer lend to people who we think are too poor and hence irresponsible.

As for our Anglo-Saxon model of free markets (i.e. not neo-liberalism at all), it’s pretty comprehensively been shown to be far superior to alternatives, which is why it is completely dominant in the EU and North America, helped create the economies of the Asian tigers, is driving growth in India and China and which is now only being held back by nationalism and ill-placed protests at the WTO.

It’s true that liberal economics suffers from economic cycles, but the alternatives suffer from having economic peaks far worst than the worst recession we’ve ever seen. It’s just a shame that each time recession looms, some people’s memories of the bad old days of nationalist economic collapse always seem rather fuzzy.

]]> By: Geoff Payne http://www.libdemvoice.org/refreshingly-frank-or-recklessly-foolish-darling-paints-picture-of-economic-gloom-3343.html#comment-59706 Geoff Payne Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:57:23 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=3343#comment-59706 The anglo-US model of free market economics (ie neo-liberalism) looked very attractive a couple of years ago after many consecutive years of economic growth. But as Vince pointed out, it was based upon running up huge debts and irresponsible lending. The difficulty with the current situation is the unpredictability. No one seems to know what will happen yet, so Darling could well be right. Liberals need to account for the fact that markets are unstable - they have been in many parts of the world, and now they are here. We need to have laws in place similar to Germany that makes getting into debt harder, because markets concentrate too much on short term gain and ignore the long term consequences. They do not seem to learn the lessons from history. The anglo-US model of free market economics (ie neo-liberalism) looked very attractive a couple of years ago after many consecutive years of economic growth. But as Vince pointed out, it was based upon running up huge debts and irresponsible lending. The difficulty with the current situation is the unpredictability. No one seems to know what will happen yet, so Darling could well be right.
Liberals need to account for the fact that markets are unstable – they have been in many parts of the world, and now they are here.
We need to have laws in place similar to Germany that makes getting into debt harder, because markets concentrate too much on short term gain and ignore the long term consequences. They do not seem to learn the lessons from history.

]]> By: Dan http://www.libdemvoice.org/refreshingly-frank-or-recklessly-foolish-darling-paints-picture-of-economic-gloom-3343.html#comment-59705 Dan Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:43:24 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=3343#comment-59705 Given the press reports that Stephen Carter (Downing Street's Head of Strategy) is to be 'moved on' and that Stephen and Alistair are both former Presidents of Aberdeen University SRC in the 1980s - could Darling's outburst be a parting gift from Carter to his soon to be ex-employers? Incidently at University Stephen Carter was a member of the Liberal Party... Given the press reports that Stephen Carter (Downing Street’s Head of Strategy) is to be ‘moved on’ and that Stephen and Alistair are both former Presidents of Aberdeen University SRC in the 1980s – could Darling’s outburst be a parting gift from Carter to his soon to be ex-employers?

Incidently at University Stephen Carter was a member of the Liberal Party…

]]> By: David Evans http://www.libdemvoice.org/refreshingly-frank-or-recklessly-foolish-darling-paints-picture-of-economic-gloom-3343.html#comment-59703 David Evans Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:49:29 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=3343#comment-59703 It may well be correct and frank in some ways, but the 'it's international (and so it's not my/our fault)' is in there as well. From a politician, it is a masterstroke of potential doublespeak. a) It supports Gordon - It's not our fault; b) it supports himself - It's definitely not my fault; c) it undermines Gordon - He says everything is fine; d) it elevates himself - I'm telling it as it is - you can trust me. What a politician! It may well be correct and frank in some ways, but the ‘it’s international (and so it’s not my/our fault)’ is in there as well. From a politician, it is a masterstroke of potential doublespeak.
a) It supports Gordon – It’s not our fault;
b) it supports himself – It’s definitely not my fault;
c) it undermines Gordon – He says everything is fine;
d) it elevates himself – I’m telling it as it is – you can trust me.
What a politician!

]]> By: Steven Ronald http://www.libdemvoice.org/refreshingly-frank-or-recklessly-foolish-darling-paints-picture-of-economic-gloom-3343.html#comment-59610 Steven Ronald Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:37:12 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=3343#comment-59610 Politicalbetting.com reckons Darling might have leadership issue motivations- http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2008/08/30/is-darling-trying-to-spike-gords-latest-re-launch/ Which makes sense - but reading his actual words he appears sincere enough - compared to say Miliband... Politicalbetting.com reckons Darling might have leadership issue motivations-

http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2008/08/30/is-darling-trying-to-spike-gords-latest-re-launch/

Which makes sense – but reading his actual words he appears sincere enough – compared to say Miliband…

]]> By: Steven Ronald http://www.libdemvoice.org/refreshingly-frank-or-recklessly-foolish-darling-paints-picture-of-economic-gloom-3343.html#comment-59609 Steven Ronald Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:33:42 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=3343#comment-59609 I think it could be a case of the boy who cried wolf - after ten years of blairite spin (and no end in sight thanks to cameron) anything that is refreshing frank may be unfairly dismissed. I think it could be a case of the boy who cried wolf – after ten years of blairite spin (and no end in sight thanks to cameron) anything that is refreshing frank may be unfairly dismissed.

]]> By: Greenfield http://www.libdemvoice.org/refreshingly-frank-or-recklessly-foolish-darling-paints-picture-of-economic-gloom-3343.html#comment-59608 Greenfield Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:00:44 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=3343#comment-59608 I think boldkevin is right. Darling & Labour couldnt continue with their line of ' it wont be too bad - we are in good shape compared to the rest of the world', as Vince Cable has said.So they are now going for broke saying its going to be very bad (running the risk of creating more panic & the situation worse), in the hope they claim credit if things dont turn out so bleak. Dangerous stuff which will do let to restore confidence. I think boldkevin is right. Darling & Labour couldnt continue with their line of ‘ it wont be too bad – we are in good shape compared to the rest of the world’, as Vince Cable has said.So they are now going for broke saying its going to be very bad (running the risk of creating more panic & the situation worse), in the hope they claim credit if things dont turn out so bleak. Dangerous stuff which will do let to restore confidence.

]]> By: boldkevin http://www.libdemvoice.org/refreshingly-frank-or-recklessly-foolish-darling-paints-picture-of-economic-gloom-3343.html#comment-59605 boldkevin Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:52:47 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=3343#comment-59605 Is this expectation management? Is this expectation management?

]]> By: Bernard Salmon http://www.libdemvoice.org/refreshingly-frank-or-recklessly-foolish-darling-paints-picture-of-economic-gloom-3343.html#comment-59599 Bernard Salmon Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:39:10 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=3343#comment-59599 Darling's interview is an astonishing admission of the extent of the government's failure, both political and economic. I have blogged in more detail about it, as it's extraordinary on so many levels. Darling’s interview is an astonishing admission of the extent of the government’s failure, both political and economic. I have blogged in more detail about it, as it’s extraordinary on so many levels.

]]>