Comments on: The 62 most liberal non-Lib Dem MPs http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-191-most-liberal-nonlib-dem-mps-18378.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:13:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mark http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-191-most-liberal-nonlib-dem-mps-18378.html#comment-116697 Mark Sun, 02 May 2010 13:03:48 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18378#comment-116697 Julian Brazier is also pro-censorship; he proposed a law that would allow Parliament the power to ban films and computer games even for adults (even if the BBFC had allowed them) - http://cornerstonegroup.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/why-i-want-to-legislate-against-video-nasties-by-julian-brazier/ (the MOJ report he refers to in that article was a rather biased study produced by the Government to support the dubious "extreme porn" law, Section 63, so hardly surprising they dug out all the anti-porn studies). Not exactly what I could call liberal - I guess these issues are way one must be careful of just looking at a handful of issues. Julian Brazier is also pro-censorship; he proposed a law that would allow Parliament the power to ban films and computer games even for adults (even if the BBFC had allowed them) – http://cornerstonegroup.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/why-i-want-to-legislate-against-video-nasties-by-julian-brazier/ (the MOJ report he refers to in that article was a rather biased study produced by the Government to support the dubious “extreme porn” law, Section 63, so hardly surprising they dug out all the anti-porn studies). Not exactly what I could call liberal – I guess these issues are way one must be careful of just looking at a handful of issues.

]]> By: Cogload http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-191-most-liberal-nonlib-dem-mps-18378.html#comment-116547 Cogload Sat, 01 May 2010 13:40:18 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18378#comment-116547 Richard Shepherd is a good guy. I wish there were more like him in the previous parliament and best of luck to him on Thursday. Richard Shepherd is a good guy. I wish there were more like him in the previous parliament and best of luck to him on Thursday.

]]> By: Mike K http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-191-most-liberal-nonlib-dem-mps-18378.html#comment-116542 Mike K Sat, 01 May 2010 13:05:05 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18378#comment-116542 If the Tories on the list have bothered to turn up and vorte on the issues, showing they are concerned about them,then surely, in a commons where so many mps disgracefully absent themselves during parliamentary debates, they should be given credit where they have made their voices heard on the libertarian side. I can't understand how Geoffrey can call Thatcher's the most illiberal PM after the wholesale assault on liberty we have seen from New Labour under Blair and Brown-id cards, draconian smoke bans (most Tories voted against) , starting to remove jury trial (thgey will surely do this for rape cases if they stay in power), id cards, totalitarian anti terrorist legislation used to stifle dissent etc, curbs on free speech, a dangerous pictures and dangerous drawings act, laws for secret inquests, punishment without proven guilt (asbos etc), seizure of private assets, legislation for state agencies, to open private mail, massive databases. If the Tories on the list have bothered to turn up and vorte on the issues, showing they are concerned about them,then surely, in a commons where so many mps disgracefully absent themselves during parliamentary debates, they should be given credit where they have made their voices heard on the libertarian side.

I can’t understand how Geoffrey can call Thatcher’s the most illiberal PM after the wholesale assault on liberty we have seen from New Labour under Blair and Brown-id cards, draconian smoke bans (most Tories voted against) , starting to remove jury trial (thgey will surely do this for rape cases if they stay in power), id cards, totalitarian anti terrorist legislation used to stifle dissent etc, curbs on free speech, a dangerous pictures and dangerous drawings act, laws for secret inquests, punishment without proven guilt (asbos etc), seizure of private assets, legislation for state agencies, to open private mail, massive databases.

]]> By: Alex http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-191-most-liberal-nonlib-dem-mps-18378.html#comment-111385 Alex Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:03:01 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18378#comment-111385 Julian Brazier, MP for Canterbury is NOT liberal! He is adamently against equal gay rights! Also as Chloe Smith is new to Parliament and a lot of Tories fail to turn up to vote, couldn't this shape how liberal an MP is on this chart? Julian Brazier, MP for Canterbury is NOT liberal! He is adamently against equal gay rights!

Also as Chloe Smith is new to Parliament and a lot of Tories fail to turn up to vote, couldn’t this shape how liberal an MP is on this chart?

]]> By: Chris http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-191-most-liberal-nonlib-dem-mps-18378.html#comment-111348 Chris Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:28:53 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18378#comment-111348 I'm not at all convinced by the accuracy of that list - quite a few of those Tories are anything but liberal! I’m not at all convinced by the accuracy of that list – quite a few of those Tories are anything but liberal!

]]> By: Peter Chegwyn http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-191-most-liberal-nonlib-dem-mps-18378.html#comment-111333 Peter Chegwyn Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:58:38 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18378#comment-111333 Hmm. John Redwood a liberal? I think not! Hmm. John Redwood a liberal? I think not!

]]> By: Alex http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-191-most-liberal-nonlib-dem-mps-18378.html#comment-111332 Alex Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:56:11 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18378#comment-111332 I agree with Russ. That this metric considers Chris Grayling to be liberal shows it to be more than useless. I agree with Russ.

That this metric considers Chris Grayling to be liberal shows it to be more than useless.

]]> By: Russ http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-191-most-liberal-nonlib-dem-mps-18378.html#comment-111329 Russ Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:28:59 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18378#comment-111329 The appearance of Jeremy Corbyn & John McDonnell on this list exhibits why the whole project is meaningless. Both men are long-standing supporters of deeply authoritarian, anti-democratic regimes in Cuba and Venezuela - their extraordinary indulgence towards these Governments is better represented by the public statements they have made and the EDMs they have signed, as such issues are never subject to a Parliamentary vote. So no, "especial credit" is not due to them. If they have voted more 'liberally' on policy for the British Government, this merely suggests they believe that liberal Government should be upheld where they live, but is of no matter overseas. Which is even more unlovely. Or, as you say, their domestic success and apparent liberalism is based on opposing Labour Whips and nothing more. The appearance of Jeremy Corbyn & John McDonnell on this list exhibits why the whole project is meaningless. Both men are long-standing supporters of deeply authoritarian, anti-democratic regimes in Cuba and Venezuela – their extraordinary indulgence towards these Governments is better represented by the public statements they have made and the EDMs they have signed, as such issues are never subject to a Parliamentary vote. So no, “especial credit” is not due to them.

If they have voted more ‘liberally’ on policy for the British Government, this merely suggests they believe that liberal Government should be upheld where they live, but is of no matter overseas. Which is even more unlovely. Or, as you say, their domestic success and apparent liberalism is based on opposing Labour Whips and nothing more.

]]> By: Geoffrey Payne http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-191-most-liberal-nonlib-dem-mps-18378.html#comment-111267 Geoffrey Payne Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:29:15 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=18378#comment-111267 A curious alliance of the Tories and Labour's hard left. I wonder how many of these Tories would acknowlege that they have changed their minds since when they joined? Mrs Thatcher was the most illiberal British Prime Minister in living memory. Many of these Tories also believe in the death penalty, which makes them beyond the pale as far as judging them to be "Liberal" is concerned. In the end they are simply voting against the government which is the easy thing to do. When they are in government, that will be the real test. Prior to Thatcher being elected British Prime Minister, the Tory Lord Hailsham warned about the country being governed by "an elected dictatorship". Once Thatcher got in, that was all quickly forgotten about by the Tories, because that was what she turned out to be. A curious alliance of the Tories and Labour’s hard left.
I wonder how many of these Tories would acknowlege that they have changed their minds since when they joined? Mrs Thatcher was the most illiberal British Prime Minister in living memory.
Many of these Tories also believe in the death penalty, which makes them beyond the pale as far as judging them to be “Liberal” is concerned. In the end they are simply voting against the government which is the easy thing to do. When they are in government, that will be the real test.
Prior to Thatcher being elected British Prime Minister, the Tory Lord Hailsham warned about the country being governed by “an elected dictatorship”. Once Thatcher got in, that was all quickly forgotten about by the Tories, because that was what she turned out to be.

]]>