Comments on: The Independent View: The hole we are in and how to get out of it http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-independent-view-the-hole-we-are-in-and-how-to-get-out-of-it-6172.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:46:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Clegg's Candid Fan http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-independent-view-the-hole-we-are-in-and-how-to-get-out-of-it-6172.html#comment-70549 Clegg's Candid Fan Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:52:03 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6172#comment-70549 More on Vince's latest gyrations in the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/budget/3506396/Raise-taxes-on-the-rich-to-pay-for-the-economic-stimulus-package-LibDems-Cable-urges.html Discussing Cable's ideas for the funding of tax cuts for "those on lower incomes", the article says that Cable is "theoretically" in favour not only of "clampdowns on capital gains tax and tax avoidance schemes", but also of "higher tax rates for the bigger earners". <b><i>A return to the 50p tax rate policy??</i></b> And the reason for this <i>volte face</i>? <I>"I think we are living in a world which has moved further to the left than a year ago, and it's probably caused by the meltdown in the financial system; by the realisation that people who were being paid extraordinarily high bonuses in the City were not actually wealth creating at all, but were creating a vast pyramid selling scheme that has caused gross financial stability. This was not reward for wealth creation; it was reward for excessive risk-taking and ultimately for failure - and that has fundamentally changed peoples' attitudes."</I> More on Vince’s latest gyrations in the Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/budget/3506396/Raise-taxes-on-the-rich-to-pay-for-the-economic-stimulus-package-LibDems-Cable-urges.html

Discussing Cable’s ideas for the funding of tax cuts for “those on lower incomes”, the article says that Cable is “theoretically” in favour not only of “clampdowns on capital gains tax and tax avoidance schemes”, but also of “higher tax rates for the bigger earners”.

A return to the 50p tax rate policy??

And the reason for this volte face?

“I think we are living in a world which has moved further to the left than a year ago, and it’s probably caused by the meltdown in the financial system; by the realisation that people who were being paid extraordinarily high bonuses in the City were not actually wealth creating at all, but were creating a vast pyramid selling scheme that has caused gross financial stability. This was not reward for wealth creation; it was reward for excessive risk-taking and ultimately for failure – and that has fundamentally changed peoples’ attitudes.”

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-independent-view-the-hole-we-are-in-and-how-to-get-out-of-it-6172.html#comment-70439 Anonymous Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:17:29 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6172#comment-70439 Simon's arguments are populist c**p. "Helping the poor" is just the lame excuse of politicians who want actually help themselves to increase their control on the taxpayers' purses and doing whatever they want with the money. The help to the poor never increases in the proportion to theincrease in taxes. Simon’s arguments are populist c**p. “Helping the poor” is just the lame excuse of politicians who want actually help themselves to increase their control on the taxpayers’ purses and doing whatever they want with the money. The help to the poor never increases in the proportion to theincrease in taxes.

]]> By: Anax http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-independent-view-the-hole-we-are-in-and-how-to-get-out-of-it-6172.html#comment-70415 Anax Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:13:11 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6172#comment-70415 It's not public/private that the main problem, but productive/unproductive investment. The public sector is capable of productive work, if lead well. Compare the Severn Barrage with the ID Cards. It’s not public/private that the main problem, but productive/unproductive investment. The public sector is capable of productive work, if lead well. Compare the Severn Barrage with the ID Cards.

]]> By: David Allen http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-independent-view-the-hole-we-are-in-and-how-to-get-out-of-it-6172.html#comment-70412 David Allen Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:57:51 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6172#comment-70412 This article is basically presenting the Tories' excuse for doing nothing about the crisis. That excuse is, anything you do will only make things worse. It isn't true. In fact, it's a disgraceful abdication of responsibility to face a major crisis and offer to do nothing at all. It is, however, a reasonable bet that whatever Brown does, things will go on being bad for a good long time. The Tories will then say, Told you so! Aren't Tories just wonderful? This article is basically presenting the Tories’ excuse for doing nothing about the crisis. That excuse is, anything you do will only make things worse.

It isn’t true. In fact, it’s a disgraceful abdication of responsibility to face a major crisis and offer to do nothing at all.

It is, however, a reasonable bet that whatever Brown does, things will go on being bad for a good long time. The Tories will then say, Told you so!

Aren’t Tories just wonderful?

]]> By: Geoffrey Payne http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-independent-view-the-hole-we-are-in-and-how-to-get-out-of-it-6172.html#comment-70409 Geoffrey Payne Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:36:23 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6172#comment-70409 I can hardly believe that there are still people in the party who think we should deregulate the private sector further given the mess we are in has been caused by excessive deregulation. There may be specific examples where the case can be fairly made, but to make it as a general point seems absurd. I can hardly believe that there are still people in the party who think we should deregulate the private sector further given the mess we are in has been caused by excessive deregulation.
There may be specific examples where the case can be fairly made, but to make it as a general point seems absurd.

]]> By: Simon http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-independent-view-the-hole-we-are-in-and-how-to-get-out-of-it-6172.html#comment-70371 Simon Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:44:48 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6172#comment-70371 Art Laffer is a crank. Art Laffer is a crank.

]]> By: Oranjepan http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-independent-view-the-hole-we-are-in-and-how-to-get-out-of-it-6172.html#comment-70365 Oranjepan Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:30:21 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6172#comment-70365 The general thrust of this article sounds sensible, but I question this line: "rich people can reduce their ability to pay taxes" (surely: "rich people can reduce their tax liability"?) Closing loopholes by simplifying the taxation system not only makes the thing more comprehensible and fairer, but it has the potential (the devil is in the detail) to raise contributions to the exchequer. I think the correct argument we should be making is 'tax more fairly, spend more sensibly'. The general thrust of this article sounds sensible, but I question this line: “rich people can reduce their ability to pay taxes”

(surely: “rich people can reduce their tax liability”?)

Closing loopholes by simplifying the taxation system not only makes the thing more comprehensible and fairer, but it has the potential (the devil is in the detail) to raise contributions to the exchequer.

I think the correct argument we should be making is ‘tax more fairly, spend more sensibly’.

]]> By: evil g http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-independent-view-the-hole-we-are-in-and-how-to-get-out-of-it-6172.html#comment-70360 evil g Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:16:03 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6172#comment-70360 You're wasting your time. Whatever the question, the liberal party's answer is, "tax more, spend more". You’re wasting your time.

Whatever the question, the liberal party’s answer is, “tax more, spend more”.

]]> By: Clegg's Candid Fan http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-independent-view-the-hole-we-are-in-and-how-to-get-out-of-it-6172.html#comment-70344 Clegg's Candid Fan Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:15:37 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6172#comment-70344 I really think it's a waste of time trying to follow the twists and turns of Lib Dem economic policy. Only two months ago, Cable was talking about cutting £20bn from public spending, partly to be redirected to other priorities, but with an aspiration to cut overall public spending to allow further tax cuts. Now, according to that Guardian report, he is calling for "a massive increase in public spending", to be funded by increased borrowing. I'm not clear from the reports of that briefing whether he's really supporting £30bn extra borrowing (but if not he ought to sack his PR officer). This is the man who is supposed to have foreseen this whole crisis months and months ago, remember. But maybe it's worth highlighting one detail. Speaking of the "green switch", the article says <i>"Cable ... said his party would spend 1.5% of GDP on tax cuts for the low-paid. About <b>£3bn</b> of this would come from green taxes and the rest from closing tax avoidance opportunities and tax reliefs enjoyed by the wealthy."</i> When this policy was announced in July 2007 the costings were reported as follows: <i>"To pay for the £19.2 billion cut in income tax, the party would raise <b>£6.7 billion</b> from higher green levies and £7.5 billion from scrapping tax breaks on pension contributions for high earners."</i> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article2067774.ece If this is correct, it obviously represents a very tangible softening of the party's commitment to "green" taxation. I really think it’s a waste of time trying to follow the twists and turns of Lib Dem economic policy.

Only two months ago, Cable was talking about cutting £20bn from public spending, partly to be redirected to other priorities, but with an aspiration to cut overall public spending to allow further tax cuts.

Now, according to that Guardian report, he is calling for “a massive increase in public spending”, to be funded by increased borrowing. I’m not clear from the reports of that briefing whether he’s really supporting £30bn extra borrowing (but if not he ought to sack his PR officer).

This is the man who is supposed to have foreseen this whole crisis months and months ago, remember.

But maybe it’s worth highlighting one detail. Speaking of the “green switch”, the article says “Cable … said his party would spend 1.5% of GDP on tax cuts for the low-paid. About £3bn of this would come from green taxes and the rest from closing tax avoidance opportunities and tax reliefs enjoyed by the wealthy.”

When this policy was announced in July 2007 the costings were reported as follows: “To pay for the £19.2 billion cut in income tax, the party would raise £6.7 billion from higher green levies and £7.5 billion from scrapping tax breaks on pension contributions for high earners.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article2067774.ece

If this is correct, it obviously represents a very tangible softening of the party’s commitment to “green” taxation.

]]> By: Simon http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-independent-view-the-hole-we-are-in-and-how-to-get-out-of-it-6172.html#comment-70334 Simon Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:17:25 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=6172#comment-70334 Shock horror Right wing think tank says we shouldn't tax the rich more. Not sure the stock of organisations like Reform, Adam Smith Institute etc etc is particularly high at the moment and we probably shouldn't be paying to much head to the likes of them when setting our policies. Shock horror Right wing think tank says we shouldn’t tax the rich more. Not sure the stock of organisations like Reform, Adam Smith Institute etc etc is particularly high at the moment and we probably shouldn’t be paying to much head to the likes of them when setting our policies.

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