Comments on: The plans to cut election expenses may be dead but there are still lessons to learn http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-plans-to-cut-election-expenses-may-be-dead-but-there-are-still-lessons-to-learn-16717.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:36:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Weekend voting: will this be the next trend in trying to raise turnout at elections? | Mark Pack http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-plans-to-cut-election-expenses-may-be-dead-but-there-are-still-lessons-to-learn-16717.html#comment-102036 Weekend voting: will this be the next trend in trying to raise turnout at elections? | Mark Pack Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:38:36 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16717#comment-102036 [...] testing is another example of overall how poorly thought through the electoral pilots were – basic questions were left unanswered whilst other ideas were repeatedly retested long after it became clear they didn’t bring significant [...] [...] testing is another example of overall how poorly thought through the electoral pilots were – basic questions were left unanswered whilst other ideas were repeatedly retested long after it became clear they didn’t bring significant [...]

]]> By: Weekend voting: will this be the next trend in trying to raise turnout at elections? http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-plans-to-cut-election-expenses-may-be-dead-but-there-are-still-lessons-to-learn-16717.html#comment-101942 Weekend voting: will this be the next trend in trying to raise turnout at elections? Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:11:42 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16717#comment-101942 [...] testing is another example of overall how poorly thought through the electoral pilots were – basic questions were left unanswered whilst other ideas were repeatedly retested long after it became clear they didn’t bring significant [...] [...] testing is another example of overall how poorly thought through the electoral pilots were – basic questions were left unanswered whilst other ideas were repeatedly retested long after it became clear they didn’t bring significant [...]

]]> By: Tim13 http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-plans-to-cut-election-expenses-may-be-dead-but-there-are-still-lessons-to-learn-16717.html#comment-101222 Tim13 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:12:10 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16717#comment-101222 Before throwing the Electoral Commission baby out with the bathwater, we should remember carefully that much of the apparatus was brought in to combat sleaze. There we were, in the 90s attacking the Tories and their sleazy ways. And now whinging about the "bureaucracy" that comes in the wake of the clean-up operation. Well, I've got news ofor you guys - clean-ups don't come without bureaucracy. Clearly, in some areas we are over the top - and some of the changes to donation declarations now are a step in the right direction. But one crucial change of attitude is required, which is to acknowledge the fallibility of us, the politicians (it would also be good to acknowledge to the public that we ALL ARE politicians - we are even more hated when we try to hide our identity!) And, curiously, I think we in the Lib Dems are probably the most culpable of thinking that democratic action by politicians alone is capable of cleaning up any mess. We are fallible, and we need failsafe safety nets to ensure we are kept in line. Before throwing the Electoral Commission baby out with the bathwater, we should remember carefully that much of the apparatus was brought in to combat sleaze. There we were, in the 90s attacking the Tories and their sleazy ways. And now whinging about the “bureaucracy” that comes in the wake of the clean-up operation. Well, I’ve got news ofor you guys – clean-ups don’t come without bureaucracy. Clearly, in some areas we are over the top – and some of the changes to donation declarations now are a step in the right direction.

But one crucial change of attitude is required, which is to acknowledge the fallibility of us, the politicians (it would also be good to acknowledge to the public that we ALL ARE politicians – we are even more hated when we try to hide our identity!) And, curiously, I think we in the Lib Dems are probably the most culpable of thinking that democratic action by politicians alone is capable of cleaning up any mess. We are fallible, and we need failsafe safety nets to ensure we are kept in line.

]]> By: Mouse http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-plans-to-cut-election-expenses-may-be-dead-but-there-are-still-lessons-to-learn-16717.html#comment-101214 Mouse Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:14:32 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16717#comment-101214 Getting people on the the electoral register is quite difficult, even before one considers the problem of persuading them to vote. Retailers have experience of valuing something too cheaply and finding no one wants to buy it. Perhaps we gone the same way with voting ? If we don't value it a bit more, neither will the public. I agree with Tony Greaves, 96% of the electoral commission should go. I don't think all the blame belongs to parties - much of the public is willfully ignorant about and disinterested in politics. Getting people on the the electoral register is quite difficult, even before one considers the problem of persuading them to vote.

Retailers have experience of valuing something too cheaply and finding no one wants to buy it.

Perhaps we gone the same way with voting ? If we don’t value it a bit more, neither will the public.

I agree with Tony Greaves, 96% of the electoral commission should go.

I don’t think all the blame belongs to parties – much of the public is willfully ignorant about and disinterested in politics.

]]> By: Martin Land http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-plans-to-cut-election-expenses-may-be-dead-but-there-are-still-lessons-to-learn-16717.html#comment-101202 Martin Land Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:39:58 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16717#comment-101202 Living in a mixed rural and urban area gives you a different perspective, perhaps. Polling Stations in our towns are often too big, covering up to 5,000 electors, leading to queues on even local election days, hardly conducive to improving turnout... Combine this with Polling Stations in our villages some of which have as few as 60 electors and you can see that there ought to be a better way of doing this... Quite what, I'm not sure. Living in a mixed rural and urban area gives you a different perspective, perhaps. Polling Stations in our towns are often too big, covering up to 5,000 electors, leading to queues on even local election days, hardly conducive to improving turnout… Combine this with Polling Stations in our villages some of which have as few as 60 electors and you can see that there ought to be a better way of doing this…

Quite what, I’m not sure.

]]> By: Mark Pack http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-plans-to-cut-election-expenses-may-be-dead-but-there-are-still-lessons-to-learn-16717.html#comment-101199 Mark Pack Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:05:49 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16717#comment-101199 Tony: the answer to (1) is that it is the MoJ who funds elections and decides on the level of payments etc. So I don't see a problem with the MoJ floating the proposals, though they should have been involving the Electoral Commission, political parties and others rather more in it (at least as far as I know in terms of how the process was being handled). Tony: the answer to (1) is that it is the MoJ who funds elections and decides on the level of payments etc. So I don’t see a problem with the MoJ floating the proposals, though they should have been involving the Electoral Commission, political parties and others rather more in it (at least as far as I know in terms of how the process was being handled).

]]> By: Geoffrey Payne http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-plans-to-cut-election-expenses-may-be-dead-but-there-are-still-lessons-to-learn-16717.html#comment-101197 Geoffrey Payne Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:16:20 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16717#comment-101197 The real problem with turnout is that the political parties are failing to inspire the electorate, whilst muc of the electorate would prefer to ignore politics if they could. I personally like the system we have had in the past. Voting at a polling station is a little inconvenient if you have a busy life, but at least by voting you have demonstarted that you care enough about politics to make that extra effort to vote. It is imperfect. I is rediculously easy to vote in 2 places. Counting the ballot papers are also problematic. I would favour a system where at a polling station you can choose to vote either by paper (particulary suitable if you do not like modern technology) or on a computer screen (advantage - instant counts, disadvantage - security and fraud concerns). I do not favour internet or mobile phone voting. That puts a bias in the system in favour of those who have this technology. The real problem with turnout is that the political parties are failing to inspire the electorate, whilst muc of the electorate would prefer to ignore politics if they could.
I personally like the system we have had in the past. Voting at a polling station is a little inconvenient if you have a busy life, but at least by voting you have demonstarted that you care enough about politics to make that extra effort to vote.
It is imperfect. I is rediculously easy to vote in 2 places. Counting the ballot papers are also problematic.
I would favour a system where at a polling station you can choose to vote either by paper (particulary suitable if you do not like modern technology) or on a computer screen (advantage – instant counts, disadvantage – security and fraud concerns).
I do not favour internet or mobile phone voting. That puts a bias in the system in favour of those who have this technology.

]]> By: Tony Greaves http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-plans-to-cut-election-expenses-may-be-dead-but-there-are-still-lessons-to-learn-16717.html#comment-101193 Tony Greaves Sun, 01 Nov 2009 13:57:49 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16717#comment-101193 There are two curious aspect s to this story. (1) Why the proposals were being floated inside the Ministry of Justice and not the Electoral Commission. (2) Whether this was really part of the idea that polling stations, "rickety wooden booths" and "stubby pencils" are all so terribly old fashioned and have no part in a "modern democracy". As for the EC, if it costs £24 millions I would save about £23 millions of that. The work used to be done by 3 people and a cat in the Home Office. Tony Greaves There are two curious aspect s to this story. (1) Why the proposals were being floated inside the Ministry of Justice and not the Electoral Commission. (2) Whether this was really part of the idea that polling stations, “rickety wooden booths” and “stubby pencils” are all so terribly old fashioned and have no part in a “modern democracy”.

As for the EC, if it costs £24 millions I would save about £23 millions of that. The work used to be done by 3 people and a cat in the Home Office.

Tony Greaves

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