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	<title>Comments on: The polls: what, and who, to believe?</title>
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		<title>By: Clegg's Candid Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-66788</link>
		<dc:creator>Clegg's Candid Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 22:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-66788</guid>
		<description>YouGov poll for the Daily Telegraph:
CON 42%(-)
LAB 33%(-1)
LDEM 15%(+1)

Changes are since the last YouGov poll about 10 days ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YouGov poll for the Daily Telegraph:<br />
CON 42%(-)<br />
LAB 33%(-1)<br />
LDEM 15%(+1)</p>
<p>Changes are since the last YouGov poll about 10 days ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennie</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-66607</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-66607</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’m tempted to say we should go for an octogenarian black lesbian atheist divorcee (the daughter of a Muslim/Christian mixed marriage) &quot;

Typical! He always picks family... [/not the nine o&#039;clock news]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m tempted to say we should go for an octogenarian black lesbian atheist divorcee (the daughter of a Muslim/Christian mixed marriage) &#8221;</p>
<p>Typical! He always picks family&#8230; [/not the nine o'clock news]</p>
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		<title>By: Clegg's Candid Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-66605</link>
		<dc:creator>Clegg's Candid Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-66605</guid>
		<description>Anthony Wells on UK Polling Report discusses a different type of poll carried out by ComRes for an organisation called Theos.

Among the findings was that 20% would not vote for a leader who was an atheist (other categories: 72-year-old 43%; gay/lesbian 23%; Muslim 23%; woman 7%; divorced person 7%; Christian 7%; black 5%).

I&#039;m tempted to say we should go for an octogenarian black lesbian atheist divorcee (the daughter of a Muslim/Christian mixed marriage) next time, just to spite the electorate. But sadly I don&#039;t think we have an MP who fits that description, following the narrow defeat of Fatima O&#039;Reilly in Tunbridge Wells.

But seriously, I&#039;m surprised that an atheist leader would be almost as unpopular as a homosexual one, and I wonder if some of our opponents may be tempted to make capital out of Clegg&#039;s pronouncements on the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony Wells on UK Polling Report discusses a different type of poll carried out by ComRes for an organisation called Theos.</p>
<p>Among the findings was that 20% would not vote for a leader who was an atheist (other categories: 72-year-old 43%; gay/lesbian 23%; Muslim 23%; woman 7%; divorced person 7%; Christian 7%; black 5%).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m tempted to say we should go for an octogenarian black lesbian atheist divorcee (the daughter of a Muslim/Christian mixed marriage) next time, just to spite the electorate. But sadly I don&#8217;t think we have an MP who fits that description, following the narrow defeat of Fatima O&#8217;Reilly in Tunbridge Wells.</p>
<p>But seriously, I&#8217;m surprised that an atheist leader would be almost as unpopular as a homosexual one, and I wonder if some of our opponents may be tempted to make capital out of Clegg&#8217;s pronouncements on the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Clegg's Candid Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-66568</link>
		<dc:creator>Clegg's Candid Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-66568</guid>
		<description>ComRes poll for the Independent:
CON 39%(-1)
LAB 31%(-)
LDEM 16%(-)

On these figures, online seat projection algorithms indicate a hung parliament. And that&#039;s assuming more than 30 Lib Dem seats will be lost to the Tories. If that were scaled down to (say) 20 or so, for reasons discussed before, it would leave the Tories well short of a majority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ComRes poll for the Independent:<br />
CON 39%(-1)<br />
LAB 31%(-)<br />
LDEM 16%(-)</p>
<p>On these figures, online seat projection algorithms indicate a hung parliament. And that&#8217;s assuming more than 30 Lib Dem seats will be lost to the Tories. If that were scaled down to (say) 20 or so, for reasons discussed before, it would leave the Tories well short of a majority.</p>
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		<title>By: Clegg's Candid Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-66431</link>
		<dc:creator>Clegg's Candid Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-66431</guid>
		<description>YouGov poll for the Sunday Times in Scotland:

Westminster:
CON 20%(+3)
LAB 38%(+6)
LDEM 11%(-2)
SNP 29%(-5)

Holyrood (constituency):
CON 14%(+1)
LAB 31%(+5)
LDEM 12%(-3)
SNP 39%(-3)

Holyrood (regional):
CON 16%(+2)
LAB 29%(+4)
LDEM 11%(-3)
SNP 32%(-3)

Changes are since last month. For reference, the changes in Westminster voting intention since the 2005 general election are:
CON 20%(+4)
LAB 38%(-2)
LDEM 11%(-12)
SNP 29%(+12)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YouGov poll for the Sunday Times in Scotland:</p>
<p>Westminster:<br />
CON 20%(+3)<br />
LAB 38%(+6)<br />
LDEM 11%(-2)<br />
SNP 29%(-5)</p>
<p>Holyrood (constituency):<br />
CON 14%(+1)<br />
LAB 31%(+5)<br />
LDEM 12%(-3)<br />
SNP 39%(-3)</p>
<p>Holyrood (regional):<br />
CON 16%(+2)<br />
LAB 29%(+4)<br />
LDEM 11%(-3)<br />
SNP 32%(-3)</p>
<p>Changes are since last month. For reference, the changes in Westminster voting intention since the 2005 general election are:<br />
CON 20%(+4)<br />
LAB 38%(-2)<br />
LDEM 11%(-12)<br />
SNP 29%(+12)</p>
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		<title>By: Oranjepan</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-66133</link>
		<dc:creator>Oranjepan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-66133</guid>
		<description>The polls are behaving perversely at the moment, hein?

I say ignore them and let&#039;s go canvassing ourselves!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The polls are behaving perversely at the moment, hein?</p>
<p>I say ignore them and let&#8217;s go canvassing ourselves!</p>
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		<title>By: Clegg's Candid Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-66132</link>
		<dc:creator>Clegg's Candid Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-66132</guid>
		<description>Ipsos/MORI monthly poll:
CON 45%(-7)
LAB 30%(+6)
LDEM 14%(+2)

Changes are since last month - though that was the weird one that had the Tories on 52% and the Lib Dems on 12%.

So not really any confirmation here of the jump in Lib Dem support shown by ICM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ipsos/MORI monthly poll:<br />
CON 45%(-7)<br />
LAB 30%(+6)<br />
LDEM 14%(+2)</p>
<p>Changes are since last month &#8211; though that was the weird one that had the Tories on 52% and the Lib Dems on 12%.</p>
<p>So not really any confirmation here of the jump in Lib Dem support shown by ICM.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65865</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65865</guid>
		<description>Thomas Hemsley - ICM do include a don&#039;t know option, everybody does. The difference is what they do with those don&#039;t knows.

YouGov, MORI and ComRes all dismiss don&#039;t knows - making the assumption that would either be unlikely to vote, or that their votes would split in roughly the same proportion as other people (or that it isn&#039;t a pollsters place to second guess what people will do).

ICM and Populus both reallocate a proportion of the don&#039;t knows on the assumption that they will vote in the same way as they say they did in 2005. Populus reallocates 50% of former Conservative and Labour voters, and 30% of former Lib Dem voters (which seems unfair, but is on the back of how interviewees behaved in Populus&#039;s 2005 polling). ICM reallocate 50% of former Con, Lab and LDem voters.

Phew. In short, ICM&#039;s treatment of don&#039;t knows is the most favourable to the Lib Dems (at the moment - at various times in the past the reallocation has helped the Tories and Labour). Not that it is all down to that, there will be sampling and weighting differences too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas Hemsley &#8211; ICM do include a don&#8217;t know option, everybody does. The difference is what they do with those don&#8217;t knows.</p>
<p>YouGov, MORI and ComRes all dismiss don&#8217;t knows &#8211; making the assumption that would either be unlikely to vote, or that their votes would split in roughly the same proportion as other people (or that it isn&#8217;t a pollsters place to second guess what people will do).</p>
<p>ICM and Populus both reallocate a proportion of the don&#8217;t knows on the assumption that they will vote in the same way as they say they did in 2005. Populus reallocates 50% of former Conservative and Labour voters, and 30% of former Lib Dem voters (which seems unfair, but is on the back of how interviewees behaved in Populus&#8217;s 2005 polling). ICM reallocate 50% of former Con, Lab and LDem voters.</p>
<p>Phew. In short, ICM&#8217;s treatment of don&#8217;t knows is the most favourable to the Lib Dems (at the moment &#8211; at various times in the past the reallocation has helped the Tories and Labour). Not that it is all down to that, there will be sampling and weighting differences too.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Hemsley</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65830</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hemsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 06:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65830</guid>
		<description>Others - SNP - could Salmond&#039;s govt be coming off the boil and its voters turning to the Lib Dems? Tis plausible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Others &#8211; SNP &#8211; could Salmond&#8217;s govt be coming off the boil and its voters turning to the Lib Dems? Tis plausible.</p>
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		<title>By: asquith</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65828</link>
		<dc:creator>asquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 06:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65828</guid>
		<description>Hasn&#039;t there just been a sudden rise in your ratings to over 20%?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hasn&#8217;t there just been a sudden rise in your ratings to over 20%?</p>
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		<title>By: Darrell</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65824</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65824</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a weird poll...not least because our 4% gain comes from the &#039;others&#039; section which doesnt seem very plausible to me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a weird poll&#8230;not least because our 4% gain comes from the &#8216;others&#8217; section which doesnt seem very plausible to me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Littlewood</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65821</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Littlewood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65821</guid>
		<description>It would be hard to believe anything has happened in the last few days to set a new trend in our poll rating - apart from it possibly taking a small knock owing to struggle to get much coverage in the past week or do.

The margin of error is 3% or so, these sort of variations just don&#039;t mean very much at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be hard to believe anything has happened in the last few days to set a new trend in our poll rating &#8211; apart from it possibly taking a small knock owing to struggle to get much coverage in the past week or do.</p>
<p>The margin of error is 3% or so, these sort of variations just don&#8217;t mean very much at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Clegg's Candid Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65819</link>
		<dc:creator>Clegg's Candid Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65819</guid>
		<description>No, I think there is a clear difference between this poll and the others. This ICM poll shows us above our average rating for the year so far. 

The most recent polls from the other 5 polling organisations all show us at or below our low for the year so far.

Rather than just splitting the difference it would make more sense to attach greater weight to the 5 that agree. But only time will tell who is right - ICM or all the others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I think there is a clear difference between this poll and the others. This ICM poll shows us above our average rating for the year so far. </p>
<p>The most recent polls from the other 5 polling organisations all show us at or below our low for the year so far.</p>
<p>Rather than just splitting the difference it would make more sense to attach greater weight to the 5 that agree. But only time will tell who is right &#8211; ICM or all the others.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Littlewood</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65815</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Littlewood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65815</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure the variance is as much as people claim. Yes, these last two polls include both the bottom end and the top end of recent LibDem polling numbers.

If you assume we&#039;re at about 17%, then virtually all recent polls fit within the margin of error. The Tories seem to be at about 42% and Labour at about 29%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure the variance is as much as people claim. Yes, these last two polls include both the bottom end and the top end of recent LibDem polling numbers.</p>
<p>If you assume we&#8217;re at about 17%, then virtually all recent polls fit within the margin of error. The Tories seem to be at about 42% and Labour at about 29%.</p>
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		<title>By: Clegg's Candid Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65814</link>
		<dc:creator>Clegg's Candid Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65814</guid>
		<description>Yes. As I posted before, the message of the four previous polls from different companies seemed consistent, and was unremittingly negative for the Lib Dems.

This ICM poll is obviously different (though it is normally one of the more favourable ones for the Lib Dems, and has shown us at or above 21% five times this year). Only time will tell whether it&#039;s an outlier or a herald of a different trend.

The next indication will come quite soon. I gather a MORI poll is due in the next day or two, together with a YouGov survey of marginals (though I don&#039;t know whether it will include Lib Dem marginals).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. As I posted before, the message of the four previous polls from different companies seemed consistent, and was unremittingly negative for the Lib Dems.</p>
<p>This ICM poll is obviously different (though it is normally one of the more favourable ones for the Lib Dems, and has shown us at or above 21% five times this year). Only time will tell whether it&#8217;s an outlier or a herald of a different trend.</p>
<p>The next indication will come quite soon. I gather a MORI poll is due in the next day or two, together with a YouGov survey of marginals (though I don&#8217;t know whether it will include Lib Dem marginals).</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Stockley</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65807</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Stockley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65807</guid>
		<description>The important thing is to look at the trends in all the polls, over a 3 or even  a 6 month period.  Here, John Curtice&#039;s poll of polls is invaluable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The important thing is to look at the trends in all the polls, over a 3 or even  a 6 month period.  Here, John Curtice&#8217;s poll of polls is invaluable.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Tall</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65805</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Tall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65805</guid>
		<description>Okay, okay, enough already about the Golden Dozen - it&#039;s now compiled and ready to go live ...

...

tomorrow morning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, okay, enough already about the Golden Dozen &#8211; it&#8217;s now compiled and ready to go live &#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>tomorrow morning.</p>
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		<title>By: Hywel Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65803</link>
		<dc:creator>Hywel Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65803</guid>
		<description>Returning to the main theme....

I think it&#039;s very egalitarian of the polling companies to produce three polls, one good one for each party :-)

What worries me to an extent is that all the polling companies have developed a methodology to account for the &quot;silent tories&quot; since the mid 90s.  As that trend is unravelling then they need to take account of that but essentially they are guessing at how to account for that (in a very educated and well tested way - but no-one really knows how accurate it will be untill we get to a real election).

The other possibility is that with a highly volatile electorate, minor differences in questioning are having big effects.  Still doesn&#039;t really explain why one company shows us up 4 and one down 4 though!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Returning to the main theme&#8230;.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s very egalitarian of the polling companies to produce three polls, one good one for each party <img src='http://www.libdemvoice.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>What worries me to an extent is that all the polling companies have developed a methodology to account for the &#8220;silent tories&#8221; since the mid 90s.  As that trend is unravelling then they need to take account of that but essentially they are guessing at how to account for that (in a very educated and well tested way &#8211; but no-one really knows how accurate it will be untill we get to a real election).</p>
<p>The other possibility is that with a highly volatile electorate, minor differences in questioning are having big effects.  Still doesn&#8217;t really explain why one company shows us up 4 and one down 4 though!</p>
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		<title>By: Charlotte Gore</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65801</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte Gore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65801</guid>
		<description>To be honest, I think if I were devoting my time to the Golden Dozen and it was full of people trying to debase it, I probably wouldn&#039;t be so keen to publish it in a hurry. 

I suddenly feel like a right meanypants arsehole myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest, I think if I were devoting my time to the Golden Dozen and it was full of people trying to debase it, I probably wouldn&#8217;t be so keen to publish it in a hurry. </p>
<p>I suddenly feel like a right meanypants arsehole myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennie</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-polls-what-and-who-to-believe-4961.html#comment-65799</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=4961#comment-65799</guid>
		<description>Mr Tall is just being a big mean meanypants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Tall is just being a big mean meanypants.</p>
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