Comments on: Three reasons Nick Clegg was right to call for the ‘cancellation’ of the Queen’s Speech http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:36:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Paul Griffiths http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-102027 Paul Griffiths Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:44:57 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-102027 Sorry, Mr le Breton, but you make my point for me. In the context of this argument, I assumed that you were saying that 400 MPs would leave because Nick had called for the Queen's Speech to be abandoned. Now you tell me this always happens. So your observation was irrelevant. As for rebutting Labour's charges, Nick was doing a pretty good job on Five Live just a few minutes ago. I expect that PPCs in local radio stations up and down the country will do likewise, and be grateful for the unexpected airtime. Sorry, Mr le Breton, but you make my point for me. In the context of this argument, I assumed that you were saying that 400 MPs would leave because Nick had called for the Queen’s Speech to be abandoned. Now you tell me this always happens. So your observation was irrelevant. As for rebutting Labour’s charges, Nick was doing a pretty good job on Five Live just a few minutes ago. I expect that PPCs in local radio stations up and down the country will do likewise, and be grateful for the unexpected airtime.

]]> By: James Robertson http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-102026 James Robertson Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:30:12 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-102026 Yes, it's a gimmick and a calculated one. That of course doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't substance to the argument. I would be very doubtful if Her Majesty's government is likely to have the time to introduce much of the legislation it claims it wants to, and Clegg is right to ask how best parliament should use its time. Axing the Queen's Speech, however, will remedy nothing and was clearly designed to make headlines - nothing more. Inspired move? No, but hardly likely to have any serious ramifications. At least it assured that the Lib Dems, rather than the Tories, dominated headlines in the run-up to the Queen's Speech, however "gimmicky" it looked. Yes, it’s a gimmick and a calculated one. That of course doesn’t necessarily mean that there isn’t substance to the argument. I would be very doubtful if Her Majesty’s government is likely to have the time to introduce much of the legislation it claims it wants to, and Clegg is right to ask how best parliament should use its time. Axing the Queen’s Speech, however, will remedy nothing and was clearly designed to make headlines – nothing more.

Inspired move? No, but hardly likely to have any serious ramifications. At least it assured that the Lib Dems, rather than the Tories, dominated headlines in the run-up to the Queen’s Speech, however “gimmicky” it looked.

]]> By: Matthew Huntbach http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-102022 Matthew Huntbach Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:14:10 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-102022 Constitutional changes need to be properly thought through, not rushed through. So even if Brown were to say "OK, that's a good idea", it wouldn't be really - it'd be a gimmick. The reality is that the crisis in British politics today is not primarily about the constitution, so even valuable changes like the introduction of a better electoral system won't solve it. To put forward these changes as if they are the way of "restoring public trust in our democracy" is to indicate a failure to recognise where the problem really is. It is a good indication of why we are languishing in the polls where we are. Constitutional changes need to be properly thought through, not rushed through. So even if Brown were to say “OK, that’s a good idea”, it wouldn’t be really – it’d be a gimmick.

The reality is that the crisis in British politics today is not primarily about the constitution, so even valuable changes like the introduction of a better electoral system won’t solve it. To put forward these changes as if they are the way of “restoring public trust in our democracy” is to indicate a failure to recognise where the problem really is.

It is a good indication of why we are languishing in the polls where we are.

]]> By: KL http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-102013 KL Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:29:55 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-102013 To those who think this was gimmicky, Victoria Derbyshire and John Pienaar reckoned that the overwhelming majority of the texts & e-mails to 5 Live after the Queens Speech included a comment along the lines of "why was there nothing about expenses" with many pointing to Nick's comments. He even made it on to BBC Breakfast to talk about it again this morning - and cleared my main concern which was that there was going to be another Lisbon Treaty-style walkout! A good couple of days - now to keep it up for the next six months... To those who think this was gimmicky, Victoria Derbyshire and John Pienaar reckoned that the overwhelming majority of the texts & e-mails to 5 Live after the Queens Speech included a comment along the lines of “why was there nothing about expenses” with many pointing to Nick’s comments. He even made it on to BBC Breakfast to talk about it again this morning – and cleared my main concern which was that there was going to be another Lisbon Treaty-style walkout!

A good couple of days – now to keep it up for the next six months…

]]> By: Ruth Bright http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-102008 Ruth Bright Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:11:55 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-102008 Clegg did well - I just wish he had said we should abolish the whole charade permanently. Clegg did well – I just wish he had said we should abolish the whole charade permanently.

]]> By: Darrell http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-102006 Darrell Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:52:47 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-102006 It's a bit gimmicky but that isn't the main problem; the main problem is it goes nowhere near far enough.... It’s a bit gimmicky but that isn’t the main problem; the main problem is it goes nowhere near far enough….

]]> By: David Allen http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-102003 David Allen Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:37:41 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-102003 It's a bit gimmicky and it looks a bit gimmicky. What Brown is doing looks and feels a lot more gimmicky. I don't agree that Clegg's stance will have dire consequences, I also don't agree that it was a particularly inspired move. It did hit the (minor) headlines. It didn't, on the other hand, resonate strongly with popular opinion. The public now think that Legg and Kelly have done a reasonable job of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Sadly, the Lib Dems never made the mileage they might have made out of the expenses issue, because they didn't put the right emphasis on cleaning up their own stables first. (* - please excuse my obsession with horsey metaphor!) It’s a bit gimmicky and it looks a bit gimmicky. What Brown is doing looks and feels a lot more gimmicky. I don’t agree that Clegg’s stance will have dire consequences, I also don’t agree that it was a particularly inspired move.

It did hit the (minor) headlines. It didn’t, on the other hand, resonate strongly with popular opinion. The public now think that Legg and Kelly have done a reasonable job of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Sadly, the Lib Dems never made the mileage they might have made out of the expenses issue, because they didn’t put the right emphasis on cleaning up their own stables first.

(* – please excuse my obsession with horsey metaphor!)

]]> By: leekliberal http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-102002 leekliberal Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:21:44 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-102002 A message to Jo - So you have abandoned us for the Green 'control freaks' but you feel the need to need to destructively criticise us on a regular basis. If this is what you are about then sod off and talk to them! A message to Jo – So you have abandoned us for the Green ‘control freaks’ but you feel the need to need to destructively criticise us on a regular basis. If this is what you are about then sod off and talk to them!

]]> By: Unthank Road http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-101999 Unthank Road Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:41:18 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-101999 As an ex-Lib Dem member, now floating if sympathetic voter, I am exactly the sort of person Nick needs to win back. And this sort of comment is exactly what I'm looking for. Catching a headline but highlighting a key and distinctive Lib Dem want. It beggars belief that people are complaining about the "dire consequences" of this initiative. No doubt had he not been in the papers the complaint would have been of "invisibility". It is very unusual to be able to get positive uncontroversial coverage. At the end of the day, if you say something of any relevance or interest other people somewhere will disagree with it. Get used to it. Do people want to be fierce warriors for liberal democracy or to return to being those nice people that no one know what they stand for. Think about it As an ex-Lib Dem member, now floating if sympathetic voter, I am exactly the sort of person Nick needs to win back. And this sort of comment is exactly what I’m looking for. Catching a headline but highlighting a key and distinctive Lib Dem want. It beggars belief that people are complaining about the “dire consequences” of this initiative. No doubt had he not been in the papers the complaint would have been of “invisibility”. It is very unusual to be able to get positive uncontroversial coverage. At the end of the day, if you say something of any relevance or interest other people somewhere will disagree with it. Get used to it. Do people want to be fierce warriors for liberal democracy or to return to being those nice people that no one know what they stand for. Think about it

]]> By: Mark G http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-101990 Mark G Wed, 18 Nov 2009 04:55:07 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-101990 I'm with those who thought this was an inspired move. Sure, it was a bit of gimmick but one with substance and a serious point behind it. The fact that it drew a lot of flak supports that. In my experience, Labour and Conservatives only attack Lib Dems when they are worried about something we have said. Most of the time, they prefer to ignore us. I’m with those who thought this was an inspired move. Sure, it was a bit of gimmick but one with substance and a serious point behind it.

The fact that it drew a lot of flak supports that. In my experience, Labour and Conservatives only attack Lib Dems when they are worried about something we have said. Most of the time, they prefer to ignore us.

]]> By: Clllr Patrick Smith http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-101978 Clllr Patrick Smith Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:39:48 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-101978 Nick Clegg has raised the bar on the obvious unimportance of the Queen`s Speech,except as a vehicle for Manifesto propaganda such as to actually pass law to ensure that our bankers are more responsible and to provide help to beleaguered local small businesses. Vince Cable has been pressing the flesh for the whole of this Parliament to break up the bank cartels and free up their lending and now in the fag end of the embers of this tired Government Gordon Brown suddenly claims he wants to do something. Nick Clegg is totally justified in asking where is the time in the 70 days left to pass new law on behalf of carers that should have already been on the statute book by now? Where was this Government in the voting lobbies on L/D led `Climate change' and `Fair Fuel Bills' and in protecting the residential rights of the Gurkhas? Where was Nick Clegg? He was leading real reform to the most vulnerable. Better to devote this remaining parliamentary time, to cleaning up politics, so that the electorate can sweep out the `expenses excesses' of too many greedy Westminster obsessed MP`s in 2010, with the passage of the Kelly greater clarity of rules in favour of honesty and transparency and endeavour on behalf of constituents. Nick Clegg has raised the bar on the obvious unimportance of the Queen`s Speech,except as a vehicle for Manifesto propaganda such as to actually pass law to ensure that our bankers are more responsible and to provide help to beleaguered local small businesses.

Vince Cable has been pressing the flesh for the whole of this Parliament to break up the bank cartels and free up their lending and now in the fag end of the embers of this tired Government Gordon Brown suddenly claims he wants to do something.

Nick Clegg is totally justified in asking where is the time in the 70 days left to pass new law on behalf of carers that should have already been on the statute book by now?

Where was this Government in the voting lobbies on L/D led `Climate change’ and `Fair Fuel Bills’ and in protecting the residential rights of the Gurkhas? Where was Nick Clegg? He was leading real reform to the most vulnerable.

Better to devote this remaining parliamentary time, to cleaning up politics, so that the electorate can sweep out the `expenses excesses’ of too many greedy Westminster obsessed MP`s in 2010, with the passage of the Kelly greater clarity of rules in favour of honesty and transparency and endeavour on behalf of constituents.

]]> By: Bill le Breton http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-101975 Bill le Breton Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:25:16 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-101975 Sorry Paul, but 95% of Labour MPs and 95% of Tories always get up and go when the 'two' set piece speeches finish at the start of the debate on the Queen's Speech. I was not exaggerating or making something up. Just watch tomorrow. The openning two or so minutes of our Leader's speech is always drowned out by this mass exodus to the tea room. It is a very hard job at the best of times. As for criticism, of course politics is about accusation and rebuttal, but we have put ourselves voluntarily on to hazardous ground and the rebuttal of the charge that we think care for the elderly (for example) is a waste of time will be fraught with difficulty. Sorry Paul, but 95% of Labour MPs and 95% of Tories always get up and go when the ‘two’ set piece speeches finish at the start of the debate on the Queen’s Speech. I was not exaggerating or making something up. Just watch tomorrow. The openning two or so minutes of our Leader’s speech is always drowned out by this mass exodus to the tea room. It is a very hard job at the best of times.
As for criticism, of course politics is about accusation and rebuttal, but we have put ourselves voluntarily on to hazardous ground and the rebuttal of the charge that we think care for the elderly (for example) is a waste of time will be fraught with difficulty.

]]> By: Paul Griffiths http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-101973 Paul Griffiths Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:01:36 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-101973 It was Mr le Breton’s comments I had in mind when I used the word “unconvincing”. That our political opponents criticise us is hardly surprising. 400 MPs will of course not leave the chamber. And so on. It was Mr le Breton’s comments I had in mind when I used the word “unconvincing”. That our political opponents criticise us is hardly surprising. 400 MPs will of course not leave the chamber. And so on.

]]> By: Bill le Breton http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-101969 Bill le Breton Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:36:23 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-101969 Stephen, it is a gimmick. It may have won a moment or two of coverage, but it’s a hostage to fortune that immediately opens us up to criticism for not supporting important measures. You belittle Harman’s attack but her comment illustrates just how this will be used against us, again and again: "Nick Clegg is wrong to say it's 'a waste of everyone's time' to help carers, make the banks more responsible, and secure Britain's economic growth and jobs," And White didn’t serve for thirty odd years as a Parliamentary sketch-writer not to know how to do satire. I hope I’m wrong, but Duncan, above, poses an immediate problem, does the Leader intend to boycott the speech and if not how exposed do we become trailing along like truant ‘schoolboys’ being led back to class? Back in the Commons, replying to a Queen’s Speech as Leader of the Liberal Democrats is the hardest job there is. As he rises to speak, four hundred noisy MPs leave the chamber. I just don’t think it shows a team thinking things through. It shows an inexperienced comms. operation. Leaving PPCs up and down the country to face the music in their local radio stations. Stephen, it is a gimmick. It may have won a moment or two of coverage, but it’s a hostage to fortune that immediately opens us up to criticism for not supporting important measures.
You belittle Harman’s attack but her comment illustrates just how this will be used against us, again and again: “Nick Clegg is wrong to say it’s ‘a waste of everyone’s time’ to help carers, make the banks more responsible, and secure Britain’s economic growth and jobs,”
And White didn’t serve for thirty odd years as a Parliamentary sketch-writer not to know how to do satire.
I hope I’m wrong, but Duncan, above, poses an immediate problem, does the Leader intend to boycott the speech and if not how exposed do we become trailing along like truant ‘schoolboys’ being led back to class?
Back in the Commons, replying to a Queen’s Speech as Leader of the Liberal Democrats is the hardest job there is. As he rises to speak, four hundred noisy MPs leave the chamber.
I just don’t think it shows a team thinking things through. It shows an inexperienced comms. operation. Leaving PPCs up and down the country to face the music in their local radio stations.

]]> By: Jo http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-101968 Jo Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:36:18 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-101968 Iainm - they don't - sometimes they sink to almost single figures... Iainm – they don’t – sometimes they sink to almost single figures…

]]> By: Paul Griffiths http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-101966 Paul Griffiths Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:11:54 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-101966 I don't usually do "I agree" comments, but there have been so many detractors I feel the need to even things up a little. Nick's intervention was inspired, and the worries about dire consequences are wholly unconvincing. I don’t usually do “I agree” comments, but there have been so many detractors I feel the need to even things up a little. Nick’s intervention was inspired, and the worries about dire consequences are wholly unconvincing.

]]> By: Duncan Stott http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-101961 Duncan Stott Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:25:36 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-101961 It is important Clegg follows through on his words tomorrow. After rubbishing the speech, he would look foolish if he then wandered over to the Lords with the rest of them. I hope he, indeed all Lib Dem MPs, keep their bums in the Commons throughout the ceremony. It would be another great shot of publicity. http://splithorizons.blogspot.com/2009/11/clegg-needs-to-follow-through.html It is important Clegg follows through on his words tomorrow. After rubbishing the speech, he would look foolish if he then wandered over to the Lords with the rest of them. I hope he, indeed all Lib Dem MPs, keep their bums in the Commons throughout the ceremony. It would be another great shot of publicity.

http://splithorizons.blogspot.com/2009/11/clegg-needs-to-follow-through.html

]]> By: Jo http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-101959 Jo Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:15:48 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-101959 This was such a waste of time - even more so than Nick posing alongside sweaty tattooed boxers - at worst the Lib Dems will look like they are nit picking and at best look anti-royal - either way it's not a vote winner... This was such a waste of time – even more so than Nick posing alongside sweaty tattooed boxers – at worst the Lib Dems will look like they are nit picking and at best look anti-royal – either way it’s not a vote winner…

]]> By: Iainm http://www.libdemvoice.org/three-reasons-nick-clegg-was-right-to-call-for-the-cancellation-of-the-queens-speech-16847.html#comment-101958 Iainm Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:03:07 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16847#comment-101958 I suspect that even if Clegg were to call for the queen's speech to be permanently abolished, followed by the old dear herself, the Lib Dems' poll numbers would still hover stubbornly around the 18-20% mark they always do. I suspect that even if Clegg were to call for the queen’s speech to be permanently abolished, followed by the old dear herself, the Lib Dems’ poll numbers would still hover stubbornly around the 18-20% mark they always do.

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