Comments on: Tom Watson writes … on the Royal Mail and postcodes http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html Our place to talk - an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 00:55:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Postcodes belong to us – or should do! | Lynne Featherstone MP http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-102394 Postcodes belong to us – or should do! | Lynne Featherstone MP Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:31:53 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-102394 [...] is an issue that cuts across parties - hence Labour MP Tom Watson talking about it on Lib Dem Voice - and so it should, because it's about how the data about us can help us all. Related [...] [...] is an issue that cuts across parties – hence Labour MP Tom Watson talking about it on Lib Dem Voice – and so it should, because it's about how the data about us can help us all. Related [...]

]]> By: Jim Pick http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99396 Jim Pick Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:25:48 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99396 I'm watching this closely from over in Canada, where we have the same issue. The queen owns the public data, not the people. In the US, all government data is automatically in the public domain already. Our politicians need to pay attention to competitiveness issues that the web/software industry is facing, or Web 3.0 and #opendata may just end up being dominated by US companies. I’m watching this closely from over in Canada, where we have the same issue. The queen owns the public data, not the people. In the US, all government data is automatically in the public domain already. Our politicians need to pay attention to competitiveness issues that the web/software industry is facing, or Web 3.0 and #opendata may just end up being dominated by US companies.

]]> By: Anton http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99395 Anton Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:46:08 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99395 Tom, your post reminds me of this article: http://www.adamsmith.org/think-piece/government/an-information-revolution--200909224164/ I wish I'd known about the excellent 'Show us a better way' website at the time of writing, as I could have mentioned it, but I think the message is fundamentally the same. Tom, your post reminds me of this article:

http://www.adamsmith.org/think-piece/government/an-information-revolution–200909224164/

I wish I’d known about the excellent ‘Show us a better way’ website at the time of writing, as I could have mentioned it, but I think the message is fundamentally the same.

]]> By: Hywel http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99393 Hywel Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:09:43 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99393 "Can we suspend the usual until nearer polling day?" Sorry Tom. If you burn your bridges you can't complain when you have to swim back across the river. If you were actually bothered about this you could have done something when you were a minister and taking a "close interest" “Can we suspend the usual until nearer polling day?”

Sorry Tom. If you burn your bridges you can’t complain when you have to swim back across the river.

If you were actually bothered about this you could have done something when you were a minister and taking a “close interest”

]]> By: Matt Wardman http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99369 Matt Wardman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:59:55 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99369 Hashtag. #freeourpostcodes Hashtag. #freeourpostcodes

]]> By: naesk http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99365 naesk Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:15:47 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99365 A crowd-sourced collaborative project to collate UK postcodes already exists and has been running for quite a while, namely http://www.freethepostcode.org/ that provides an open source dataset & API. If you don't have a GPS simply use http://www.getlatlon.com/ utility to obtain the geo-spatial co-ords and submit the results :) I have a project in mind to benefit residents within the wards & postal districts of Hull. Despite a FOI request for boundary line co-ords, I have been halted as the information is copyrighted! Great once again, the brick wall hits me in my head hindering me from potential employment. Data produced, obtained or funded from the public purse should be open to the public. Our money, our data, no questions or excuses. Open data! When do we want it? NOW! Sean A crowd-sourced collaborative project to collate UK postcodes already exists and has been running for quite a while, namely http://www.freethepostcode.org/ that provides an open source dataset & API.

If you don’t have a GPS simply use http://www.getlatlon.com/ utility to obtain the geo-spatial co-ords and submit the results :)

I have a project in mind to benefit residents within the wards & postal districts of Hull. Despite a FOI request for boundary line co-ords, I have been halted as the information is copyrighted! Great once again, the brick wall hits me in my head hindering me from potential employment.

Data produced, obtained or funded from the public purse should be open to the public. Our money, our data, no questions or excuses.

Open data! When do we want it? NOW!

Sean

]]> By: Matt Wardman http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99364 Matt Wardman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:14:01 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99364 I'll post in support; this is surely a "plumbing for democracy" issue, which is also important for projects to help scrutinise local councils. Good on you for cross-posting, both Tom and LDV. One for a Private Member's Bill eventually? I’ll post in support; this is surely a “plumbing for democracy” issue, which is also important for projects to help scrutinise local councils. Good on you for cross-posting, both Tom and LDV.

One for a Private Member’s Bill eventually?

]]> By: Harry Metcalfe http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99349 Harry Metcalfe Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:42:08 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99349 Erm.. that would be 1.8 million postcodes :) But yes, freethepostcode is way off. They had about 8000 last time I looked. @tom: an independent body is a very interesting idea! Erm.. that would be 1.8 million postcodes :) But yes, freethepostcode is way off. They had about 8000 last time I looked.

@tom: an independent body is a very interesting idea!

]]> By: Daniel Yates http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99346 Daniel Yates Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:22:48 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99346 We're a start-up and have had similar issues with bathing water data - the Environment Agency wanted to charge £5k for us to integrate bathing water stats into our campsite proximity search. Admittedly we're for-profit (eventually ;-)) but £5k is clearly completely unaffordable for a nice-to-have feature, even with the public interest in beach cleanliness. This whole area needs shaking up fast. Anachronistic charging models are endangering some fascinating applications of public data. Unlocking this sort of data will also lead to huge efficiency savings - we should be crowdsourcing like crazy to make a dent in our colossal public debt. As for the bathing water search - we found another way... http://www.pitchup.com/search/-/beach-excellent-water-quality/caravans-for-hire/lodges/motorhomes/tent-pitches/touring-pitches/?q=&sort=-rating We’re a start-up and have had similar issues with bathing water data – the Environment Agency wanted to charge £5k for us to integrate bathing water stats into our campsite proximity search. Admittedly we’re for-profit (eventually ;-) ) but £5k is clearly completely unaffordable for a nice-to-have feature, even with the public interest in beach cleanliness.

This whole area needs shaking up fast. Anachronistic charging models are endangering some fascinating applications of public data. Unlocking this sort of data will also lead to huge efficiency savings – we should be crowdsourcing like crazy to make a dent in our colossal public debt.

As for the bathing water search – we found another way…
http://www.pitchup.com/search/-/beach-excellent-water-quality/caravans-for-hire/lodges/motorhomes/tent-pitches/touring-pitches/?q=&sort=-rating

]]> By: sanbikinoraion http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99343 sanbikinoraion Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:37:33 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99343 Come on, Tom, there's plenty of irony in a former government minister whose government has overseen the largest accidental losses of personal data now campaigning for a public sector body to give away data on purpose :) <i>A neutral, less self-interested body is likely to take a more pragmatic approach to licensing.</i> Is there any reason whatsoever why postcode data shouldn't simply be freely available to anyone who wants it? It seems like its availability allows a large amount of innovation to take place, and attempting to restrict access will only result in effort being directed into creating a replacement (free) service, instead of actually doing interesting and useful stuff with the data. Sounds like exactly the sort of thing that should be done by the UK government and made available to its citizens. Come on, Tom, there’s plenty of irony in a former government minister whose government has overseen the largest accidental losses of personal data now campaigning for a public sector body to give away data on purpose :)

A neutral, less self-interested body is likely to take a more pragmatic approach to licensing.

Is there any reason whatsoever why postcode data shouldn’t simply be freely available to anyone who wants it? It seems like its availability allows a large amount of innovation to take place, and attempting to restrict access will only result in effort being directed into creating a replacement (free) service, instead of actually doing interesting and useful stuff with the data. Sounds like exactly the sort of thing that should be done by the UK government and made available to its citizens.

]]> By: Richard Pope http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99341 Richard Pope Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:33:47 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99341 I think it's great that multi party support on this issue is emerging (although all silent on the conservative front so far). Political infighting would give the Royal Mail the perfect excuse to ignore an issue that is both costing the country money and preventing an ecosystem of useful social websites from flourishing. @Andrew FreeThePostcode has been running for several years now, and only has a fraction of the 8 million postcodes in the database. It was setup by some of the people who founded OpenStreetMap, so if anyone was going to succeed at crowdsourcing a geographical database it would have been them! The problem is people only know a couple of postcodes, and any systematic attempt (e.g. using old phonebooks + google maps) is an infringement of copyright (according to the Royal Mail). Opening up the data is the only answer. I think it’s great that multi party support on this issue is emerging (although all silent on the conservative front so far). Political infighting would give the Royal Mail the perfect excuse to ignore an issue that is both costing the country money and preventing an ecosystem of useful social websites from flourishing.

@Andrew FreeThePostcode has been running for several years now, and only has a fraction of the 8 million postcodes in the database. It was setup by some of the people who founded OpenStreetMap, so if anyone was going to succeed at crowdsourcing a geographical database it would have been them!

The problem is people only know a couple of postcodes, and any systematic attempt (e.g. using old phonebooks + google maps) is an infringement of copyright (according to the Royal Mail).

Opening up the data is the only answer.

]]> By: Andrew Gillard http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99338 Andrew Gillard Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:14:41 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99338 There is already an effort to create an open source UK postcode database at http://www.freethepostcode.org/, exactly as you describe, sanbikinoraion. Now we just need more entries in it :) There is already an effort to create an open source UK postcode database at http://www.freethepostcode.org/, exactly as you describe, sanbikinoraion. Now we just need more entries in it :)

]]> By: Tom Watson http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99337 Tom Watson Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:01:24 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99337 Come on guys, I'm trying to work with you on this issue. Can we suspend the usual until nearer polling day? Sanbikinoraion - I'm coming to the view that we should take the responsibility of compiling the list away from Royal Mail. A neutral, less self-interested body is likely to take a more pragmatic approach to licensing. Come on guys, I’m trying to work with you on this issue. Can we suspend the usual until nearer polling day?

Sanbikinoraion – I’m coming to the view that we should take the responsibility of compiling the list away from Royal Mail. A neutral, less self-interested body is likely to take a more pragmatic approach to licensing.

]]> By: sanbikinoraion http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99331 sanbikinoraion Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:48:00 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99331 Seriously, though, aren't there enough interested people in the UK with GPS devices to crowdsource an open-source postcode list? (Or at least an approximation to such) Seriously, though, aren’t there enough interested people in the UK with GPS devices to crowdsource an open-source postcode list? (Or at least an approximation to such)

]]> By: sanbikinoraion http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99330 sanbikinoraion Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:46:40 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99330 <I>I like to think that the liberation of public information in re-usable formats using open standards...</i> Is that what they're calling losing laptops on trains these days? :) I like to think that the liberation of public information in re-usable formats using open standards…

Is that what they’re calling losing laptops on trains these days? :)

]]> By: john zims http://www.libdemvoice.org/tom-watson-on-the-royal-mail-and-postcodes-16455.html#comment-99319 john zims Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:34:41 +0000 http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=16455#comment-99319 How's your personal parcel deilivery service to Scotland going? You obviously don't have much confidence in the Royal Mail if you have to drive from West Bromwich to Kirkcaldy to deliver a parcel. How’s your personal parcel deilivery service to Scotland going?

You obviously don’t have much confidence in the Royal Mail if you have to drive from West Bromwich to Kirkcaldy to deliver a parcel.

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