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	<title>Comments on: What happened to the 19 Conservative MPs who voted to keep MPs&#8217; expenses secret?</title>
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	<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html</link>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html#comment-107590</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=17872#comment-107590</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; Thank goodness the Lib Dems are whiter than white (sorry, can I say that?) where expenses are concerned.

There has been hearsay that a number of senior LibDems have been employing close relatives who have little visible presence in the constituencies; concealing this from attention by paying researchers as little as possible so redirect allocated funds (a la Jim &quot;common practice in the Unions&quot; Devine).

Does anyone know about this?  If true, I would call for culprit&#039;s dismissal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt; Thank goodness the Lib Dems are whiter than white (sorry, can I say that?) where expenses are concerned.</p>
<p>There has been hearsay that a number of senior LibDems have been employing close relatives who have little visible presence in the constituencies; concealing this from attention by paying researchers as little as possible so redirect allocated funds (a la Jim &#8220;common practice in the Unions&#8221; Devine).</p>
<p>Does anyone know about this?  If true, I would call for culprit&#8217;s dismissal.</p>
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		<title>By: mike isaacs</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html#comment-107410</link>
		<dc:creator>mike isaacs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=17872#comment-107410</guid>
		<description>Huw - would that be your attitude if the money (quite a few million) had been donated to Labour or the Conservatives? More importantly would it be your attitude if the some of the money donated had been stolen from you or your parents? In the example you quote, do you think Oxfam would keep money donated to it in the certain knowledge that it had been stolen - I very much doubt it - phone and ask them!.

Nothing wrong with my ethical standards but you may wish to to take a further look at that book on ethical philosophy - read it carefully this time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huw &#8211; would that be your attitude if the money (quite a few million) had been donated to Labour or the Conservatives? More importantly would it be your attitude if the some of the money donated had been stolen from you or your parents? In the example you quote, do you think Oxfam would keep money donated to it in the certain knowledge that it had been stolen &#8211; I very much doubt it &#8211; phone and ask them!.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with my ethical standards but you may wish to to take a further look at that book on ethical philosophy &#8211; read it carefully this time.</p>
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		<title>By: Huw Dawson</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html#comment-107315</link>
		<dc:creator>Huw Dawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=17872#comment-107315</guid>
		<description>Mike Isaacs, if the money is recieved in good faith then there is no obligation to pay it back, legally or morally.

 If I had all my money stolen and donated to Oxfam, I wouldn&#039;t go to Oxfam and ask for my money back - why? Because I know damn well that it&#039;s not Oxfam&#039;s fault that I lost all my money. The crime/morally wrong part of what that guy did was steal the money, not donating to a political party. That&#039;s what the Lib Dems argued and the judge agreed with.

 EIther you know that (and you&#039;re just arguing for the sake of arguing) or you don&#039;t. In the latter case can I recommend that you go and read up on ethical philosophy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike Isaacs, if the money is recieved in good faith then there is no obligation to pay it back, legally or morally.</p>
<p> If I had all my money stolen and donated to Oxfam, I wouldn&#8217;t go to Oxfam and ask for my money back &#8211; why? Because I know damn well that it&#8217;s not Oxfam&#8217;s fault that I lost all my money. The crime/morally wrong part of what that guy did was steal the money, not donating to a political party. That&#8217;s what the Lib Dems argued and the judge agreed with.</p>
<p> EIther you know that (and you&#8217;re just arguing for the sake of arguing) or you don&#8217;t. In the latter case can I recommend that you go and read up on ethical philosophy?</p>
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		<title>By: Oranjepan</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html#comment-107179</link>
		<dc:creator>Oranjepan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=17872#comment-107179</guid>
		<description>With regard to John Redwood, there is an aspect of local electoral calculation in his vote given his closeness to Andrew MacKay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to John Redwood, there is an aspect of local electoral calculation in his vote given his closeness to Andrew MacKay.</p>
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		<title>By: mike isaacs</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html#comment-107157</link>
		<dc:creator>mike isaacs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=17872#comment-107157</guid>
		<description>Grammar Police

I find it shameless that you should defend the Lib Dems having received money from a convicted crook and even  more so when it is clear that the money he gave was stolen from honest people. What&#039;s self-justifying about saying you should give it back - bet you wouldn&#039;t disagree if your life savings (or that of your parents) had been stolen. 
Maybe you need to have another look at &quot;your moral dimension&quot;. Frankly if your argument is the best you can do LC Jones would be ashamed of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grammar Police</p>
<p>I find it shameless that you should defend the Lib Dems having received money from a convicted crook and even  more so when it is clear that the money he gave was stolen from honest people. What&#8217;s self-justifying about saying you should give it back &#8211; bet you wouldn&#8217;t disagree if your life savings (or that of your parents) had been stolen.<br />
Maybe you need to have another look at &#8220;your moral dimension&#8221;. Frankly if your argument is the best you can do LC Jones would be ashamed of you.</p>
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		<title>By: Grammar Police</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html#comment-107109</link>
		<dc:creator>Grammar Police</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=17872#comment-107109</guid>
		<description>@ Zachary/Mike

So, let me get this right. The fact that a smaller proportion of Lib Dem MPs had to re-pay a much smaller amount of money wrongly claimed in expenses, than either Lab or Con (not that I would want to justifiy it) - and the fact that some money was legally donated to the Lib Dems, by someone who turns out after months and months of investigations by the police, to have done some other stuff wrong - should prevent the Lib Dems from rightly criticising Labour and Conservative MPs who either openly sought, or tacitly acted, to prevent MPs&#039; expenses being subject to freedom of information legislation? 

Is there actually any logic in that? Are you actually saying you think that freedom of information legislation should have been changed so all the dirty secrets about MPs&#039; expenses should not have come out? I know which party I&#039;m proud to be a member of.

It&#039;s not surprising that politics is so messed up with such self-justifying nonsense falling out of the mouths of Labour and Conservative supporters.

As Lance Corporal Jones might say: &quot;They don&#039;t like it up &#039;em!&quot;

(Remember, Grammar P, remember - *don&#039;t feed the trolls*)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Zachary/Mike</p>
<p>So, let me get this right. The fact that a smaller proportion of Lib Dem MPs had to re-pay a much smaller amount of money wrongly claimed in expenses, than either Lab or Con (not that I would want to justifiy it) &#8211; and the fact that some money was legally donated to the Lib Dems, by someone who turns out after months and months of investigations by the police, to have done some other stuff wrong &#8211; should prevent the Lib Dems from rightly criticising Labour and Conservative MPs who either openly sought, or tacitly acted, to prevent MPs&#8217; expenses being subject to freedom of information legislation? </p>
<p>Is there actually any logic in that? Are you actually saying you think that freedom of information legislation should have been changed so all the dirty secrets about MPs&#8217; expenses should not have come out? I know which party I&#8217;m proud to be a member of.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not surprising that politics is so messed up with such self-justifying nonsense falling out of the mouths of Labour and Conservative supporters.</p>
<p>As Lance Corporal Jones might say: &#8220;They don&#8217;t like it up &#8216;em!&#8221;</p>
<p>(Remember, Grammar P, remember &#8211; *don&#8217;t feed the trolls*)</p>
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		<title>By: mike isaacs</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html#comment-107092</link>
		<dc:creator>mike isaacs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=17872#comment-107092</guid>
		<description>Hi Mark - remind me of what happened to that few million quid donated to the Lib Dems by a man who was subsequently found to have stolen it from investors? Have you given it back yet ? Thought not - perhaps it&#039;s best not to throw stones!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mark &#8211; remind me of what happened to that few million quid donated to the Lib Dems by a man who was subsequently found to have stolen it from investors? Have you given it back yet ? Thought not &#8211; perhaps it&#8217;s best not to throw stones!</p>
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		<title>By: Jrobinson</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html#comment-107073</link>
		<dc:creator>Jrobinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=17872#comment-107073</guid>
		<description>John Randall had the lowest expense claim of all London MPs.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23418227-revealed-london-mps-claiming-9m-expenses.do

BTW 
He also voted strongly against the Iraq war, anti-terrorism laws,  ID cards and for the hunting ban.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Randall had the lowest expense claim of all London MPs.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23418227-revealed-london-mps-claiming-9m-expenses.do" rel="nofollow">http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23418227-revealed-london-mps-claiming-9m-expenses.do</a></p>
<p>BTW<br />
He also voted strongly against the Iraq war, anti-terrorism laws,  ID cards and for the hunting ban.</p>
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		<title>By: zachary A</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html#comment-107065</link>
		<dc:creator>zachary A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=17872#comment-107065</guid>
		<description>Thank goodness the Lib Dems are whiter than white (sorry, can I say that?) where expenses are concerned.

I am sooooo happy that there are no issues at all surrounding the Lib Dems &amp; public money re-directed to the pockets of the great &amp; the good in the yellow rosettes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank goodness the Lib Dems are whiter than white (sorry, can I say that?) where expenses are concerned.</p>
<p>I am sooooo happy that there are no issues at all surrounding the Lib Dems &amp; public money re-directed to the pockets of the great &amp; the good in the yellow rosettes.</p>
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		<title>By: Grammar Police</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html#comment-107041</link>
		<dc:creator>Grammar Police</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=17872#comment-107041</guid>
		<description>And see also here with explanation from the Public Whip: http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2007-05-18&amp;number=122&amp;number2=123

Lots of Conservative Front Benchers and Labour Ministers voted in this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And see also here with explanation from the Public Whip: <a href="http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2007-05-18&#038;number=122&#038;number2=123" rel="nofollow">http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2007-05-18&#038;number=122&#038;number2=123</a></p>
<p>Lots of Conservative Front Benchers and Labour Ministers voted in this way.</p>
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		<title>By: Grammar Police</title>
		<link>http://www.libdemvoice.org/what-happened-to-the-19-conservative-mps-who-voted-to-keep-mps-expenses-secret-17872.html#comment-107040</link>
		<dc:creator>Grammar Police</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.libdemvoice.org/?p=17872#comment-107040</guid>
		<description>There are also those MPs who attended some of the debate on the Private Members&#039; bill, but then who didn&#039;t vote on the substantive issue. For example, Conservative MP Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) voted on procedural motions in a way that made the bill more likely to pass, but then was absent when they voted on the Bill itself - see: http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpn=Stephen_Hammond&amp;mpc=Wimbledon&amp;house=commons&amp;dmp=996&amp;display=motions</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are also those MPs who attended some of the debate on the Private Members&#8217; bill, but then who didn&#8217;t vote on the substantive issue. For example, Conservative MP Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) voted on procedural motions in a way that made the bill more likely to pass, but then was absent when they voted on the Bill itself &#8211; see: <a href="http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpn=Stephen_Hammond&#038;mpc=Wimbledon&#038;house=commons&#038;dmp=996&#038;display=motions" rel="nofollow">http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpn=Stephen_Hammond&#038;mpc=Wimbledon&#038;house=commons&#038;dmp=996&#038;display=motions</a></p>
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