Dear Tim,
We are writing to you to express our feelings on the subject of unpaid internships.
There can be all sorts of barriers for people who wish to undertake internships and it is crucial that the Liberal Democrats, and our Parliamentarians, do all we can to make sure that the internships we offer are as open as possible. This is about minimising barriers, one of which is affordability. Some of us have worked in the past as unpaid interns; we know that sometimes people are happy to work for free, or feel they have to in order break into a profession. This doesn’t make it right, and it is not an option for many people.
The Queen’s Speech recently guaranteed that we will, for the first time ever, set out the definition of an apprenticeship. We need to enforce the definition of an internship. We are concerned that in spite of the strong words from Nick Clegg and Jo Swinson, amongst others, that a Specified Associated Organisation is advertising for an “intern” to be based at Liberal Democrat Headquarters in a position for up to three months with a list of various duties they could be asked to carry out.
We do not believe that this is right and suggest that it is considered that:
- Any interns to be based in Liberal Democrat Headquarters are paid in the same way LDHQ interns are.
- The party does not provide facilities to be used by unpaid interns.
- The Liberal Democrat Headquarters Internship scheme considers recruiting interns in cooperation with SAOs and AOs to ensure equal treatment for every intern working at party HQ.
There is a clear distinction between unpaid internships and work experience placements, and it is the former- not the latter- that we are raising our concerns about.
We want to see interns paid fairly for their work, in line with Liberal Youth policy, and believe that all Liberal Democrat Parliamentarians and organisations can help set an example on this. Where a party organisation lacks the financial means themselves, it should be considered that an intern position is paid for centrally from the Liberal Democrats.
We are proud of our party’s aim of building a stronger economy in a fairer society, but paying interns fairly for their work is a crucial part of this.
Samuel Barratt
Alex Smethurst
Paul Edgeworth
Liz Dawson
Alex Dunn
Kavya Kaushik (Co-Chair, Liberal Youth)
Sam Fisk (Co-Chair, Liberal Youth)
William Dyer (Policy Officer, Liberal Youth)
Steven Haynes (Communications Officer, Liberal Youth)
Callum Leslie
Kevin McNamara (President, University of Kent Liberal Democrats and Liberal Youth Representative, Canterbury and Coastal Liberal Democrats)
Tim Oliver
Harry Matthews
Jack Robinson
Simon Williams
Alex Barry
Angharad Bethan Jones
Ellis R. Palmer (Secretary, University of Birmingham Liberal Democrats)Cadan ap Tomos (Chair, Univeristy of York Liberal Democrats)
Louis Gill (Youth and Student Representative, Oxford West and Abingdon Liberal Democrats)
Daniel Jones
William Dyer
Troy Hill (President, Leeds Liberal Youth)
Katie-Scarlett Wetherall
Sebastian Bench (General Secretary University of Nottingham Liberal Youth)
George Carpenter
Euan Davidson (President, Aberdeen Liberal Youth )
Andreas Christodoulou (Treasurer, Northampton Liberal Democrats)
Dr Clare Mills (Membership Development Officer, Berwick Liberal Democrats; Leadership Programme participant)
(All have signed in a personal capacity)
NB: Tim’s office have received the letter, however Tim has taken his wife and children away to Scotland for the week. His staff will make sure he sees it when he gets back and he will reply then.
This entry was posted in News and Op-eds.
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24 Comments
Interesting targeting of advertising…
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I don’t want to be down on this, but you have perhaps inadvertently just shown up one of the problems with the mantra of, ‘stronger economy, fairer society.’ The unspoken assumption is that the former – a stronger economy – will result in the latter – a fairer society. Palpably it does not.
Internships are a symptom of a problem – not its cause per se. The problem is that we have seen a massive devaluation of labour. Internships just show up by how much labour has been devalued. Now if you are sitting in a house that is exploding in price and eroding the mortgage, then this is not perhaps something that will unduly trouble you. But the devaluation of labour represents a very large problem for those without valuable assets. How on earth does society at large benefit from a situation where returns in the (stronger) economy accrue ever more to capital and not labour. We are setting up a situation where capitalism is great for those that have capital.
A stronger economy where the returns accrue not to mass-labour but to capital may be fair on some level if that wealth, ‘trickles down,’ but there is painfully scant evidence of that actually happening. Take a look at patterns in rents for an idea of how the wealth associated with returns in the housing market appear to be trickling up. Take a look at the closure of final salary pensions, or the off-shoring of jobs for an idea of how economic returns have trended and concentrated.
We should, of course, recognise that there have always been glamour occupations that have been difficult to break into – internships are nothing new nor are they bad things in and of themselves. No one has a God-given right to work for a political party or at an international legal firm. However we are now in a situation where hundreds of people are applying for jobs that can hardly be called prestigious. The downward pressure on wages is significant. It is telling just how many people who are in work also need some benefit or another (most notably Housing Benefit) to live off.
And perhaps some liberals might do well to ask themselves quite how liberal it is to have wage arbitrage resulting from large-scale economic immigration. When engineering is seeing a 10+% graduate unemployment rate then there is a problem somewhere in the system.
To be truly meaningful a stronger economy has go beyond some claptrap about, ‘aspiration.’ As these interns will attest, ‘aspirations,’ do not put food on the table or a roof over one’s head – wages do that. It is all well and good to talk of a need for deficit reduction – and indeed I personally take the view that there is a very strong argument for restraining many areas of government spend. But what internships show is that hard work is not necessarily its own reward. How much benefit will an intern see from higher tax thresholds?
The economy can be as strong as it likes. If it is only generating returns for relatively few then there is a problem. Fairness can not just be about how much gold-plating gets put on the state pension or how many pupil premiums are paid. Or how slowly £27k fees are theoretically paid back. It is about fair RETURNS in a strong economy. New Labour, of course, had very significant short-comings, especially on housing, but the lack of any acknowledgement of the devaluation of labour on the part of the coalition is deeply troubling. Not least because the young are hit harder.
There are, of course, no easy answers. Plainly the signatories of the letter are not suggesting that opening up internship opportunities represents some panacea. But no one (including, I recognise, myself) seems to have any idea of what to do when a strong economy does not bring about social progress or, dare I say it, social mobility for the many.
“however Tim has taken his wife and children away to Scotland for the week.”
What an extraordinary comment. Surely Tim and Rosie have jointly taken their children to Scotland?
Tony Greaves
Quite right. My local party submitted a motion on unpaid interns in the Party to the last but one Conference but it was not taken. Gareth Epps, member f the FCC ( and ironically leading light of the SLF) said it was ‘naive’.
The EMLD should be ashamed of themselves:
http://www.w4mpjobs.org/JobDetails.aspx?jobid=40356
I feel very uneasy about the concept of unpaid internships in the Liberal Democrats who are working for a fairer society. If we are to be seen to be serious about a fairer society the concept of unpaid internships are surely an anachronism. Every unpaid internships because of their unpaid nature is a brick in the social exclusion fort that keeps out those who cannot afford not to be unpaid. I know it is easy to say that Liberal Democrats should have no part in unpaid internships, but in reality because of the way our party is funded it is not easy to do practically.
I would say that as a party we should be moving away from unpaid internships towards volunteers and work placements instead.
@Simon McGrath As former chair of EMLD, and still involved and supporting this SAO, I feel compelled to respond to his unwarranted attack. Of course we all agree in an ideal world interns should be paid. But singling out EMLD as an SAO, which has received the princely sum of £2k pa funds from the Party for the past decade, is hardly illustrative and fair. Many MPs have and some still do use unpaid interns. EMLD have only done this a handful of times, and specifically, given these opportunities to young people from a black or minority ethnic background, who are pretty much excluded from working for MPs – how many of ours employ people from BME backgrounds? Until recently, Lib Dem HQ, was pretty much an all white organisation. While some progress has been in recent years, we are still not known for our diversity. We were very pleased that our last intern, who was able to work with us for 3 months, gained valuable experience and then went into paid employment. EMLD relies on the enormous voluntary work done by our active and dedicated Executive committee members, as I know all SAOs do. In my experience, the majority of local parties also rely on the work of volunteers. Are you suggesting they should also be banned? We would be delighted if the Party decided to give EMLD funds that would enable us to employ paid staff. But as you well know, this is naive. In the meantime we rely on fundraising, and the support of volunteers to support the much needed work EMLD is doing, to ensure we reach out, recruit, and contribute to policy development that takes into account the UKs growing BME communities. For £2k pa, we punch well above our weight. We are one of the most active SAOs, with a growing membership of 350+. I would think that is a record to be commended, and not to be “ashamed of”
Simon McGrath – I’ve seen you’re going out of your way to make this specifically about EMLD rather than the general issue of internships in the party with your posts on the Alliance of Liberal Democrats Facebook site and comments on EMLD’s Facebook page.
As Meral has said, EMLD is keen to capacity-building BAME youth through internships as well as push forward the issue of race equality generally in our party that so desperately needs to improve in this area, and again the internships help with that.
EMLD is an SAO with virtually no resources, so surely the focus should be on the use of unpaid internships by MPs who do enjoy adequate finances for their office. EMLD’s Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera has already made this point to you Simon on EMLD’s Facebook and I notice you haven’t responded but instead took the fight to another Facebook site.
As far as Liberal Youth is concerned, when they descended on my Twitter a couple of days ago and I talked about capacity-building BAME youth and was accused of playing the race card! Language that would be unacceptable in organisations like the trades union movement.
A key question is what is Liberal Youth doing to advance the issue of race equality within the party? They have opposed the last two EMLD motions to federal conference seeking to improve the internal mechanisms to achieve BAME representation in the House of Commons where currently we have an all-white team. I see no evidence that Liberal Youth are helping improve the situation within the party on race equality.
EMLD is hosting a conference next Saturday, 1st June, entitled “Race Equality – A Liberal Democrat Approach” (http://uk.amiando.com/NIRVIKQ.html). It is work like this that is pushing forward the race equality agenda, and interns have helped EMLD in our aims.
In addition, the interns have been very appreciative of their time with EMLD and got a lot out of it and are now going from strength to strength. Unlike volunteer work, our interns get input from a number of our members to ensure they are getting the most from the opportunity. This year we have a team of five EMLD executive members ready to capacity-build the new intern once appointed. I suggest this is a very different approach to the way interns are treated – exploited – by others. We do not do that.
The last EMLD intern is coming to next Saturday’s conference on his own steam. I would ask people to come and ask him about his experience. Likewise the previous intern, going great guns in Leicester City, would I’m sure give a very positive account of her time.
The resistance to change when it comes to advancing race equality in the party needs to be addressed. I would ask those expressing concerns over our internship to also demonstrate the part they are playing generally to take the party forward in this area.
Lester Holloway
Secretary – EMLD
All this self justification above still leaves the essential question – is it correct to hire someone for no pay? To me this is as bad as zero hour contracts and isn’t justifiable anywhere, anytime, full stop. To justify it on the grounds that some occupations are difficult to break into completely misses the point.
In regard to some comments referring to a lack of resources for some SAO/AO to pay interns; this letter explicitly refers to this issue, and asks that it is considered how internships based in HQ for SAOs etc can be supported in delivering paid internships- possibly through the HQ internship scheme which are paid positions.
Personally I am uneasy with the idea of two people being hired as “Interns” and working in the same building one being paid and one not, just because one is interning with an SAO not the HQ.
This letter is not about singling out any organisation. It cannot be right to have two tiers of interns within the same walls of Lib Dem HQ (the HQ internship programme PAYS interns).
@Simon McGrath why have you made such a statement as “EMLD should be ashamed of themselves”?
I have asked you elsewhere, but you have chosen not to respond, but I will ask again “what exactly is the problem? ”
EMLD is working extremely hard to change the culture within the Party, and to represent it as a political group that minority ethnic communities will feel more inclined to be associated with. Our membership gives up a considerable amount of time, energy and pays for this pleasure with hard cash, but the reward, it would appear is to be further attacked.
Even though you have responded as you have, I am more than willing to communicate with you on a personal level and answer any questions that you have, and hopefully explain what EMLD is all about, and why it is necessary, for I do not see you as a lost cause.
Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
English Party Diversity Champion
EMLD – Vice Chair
@Merel, Lester and Ruwan: I have not singled out the EMLD, they are advertising for an unpaid intern on W4MP at the moment I have previously criticised our MPs and the party itself for doing the same thing, have asked questions at 2 Conferences and written a motion which my local party submitted to Conference.
No doubt EMLD does good work and doesn’t get much money – the party doesn’t have much to give. I have no idea what process the party goes through to allocate funds between different SAOs but how does that make a difference. Either it is wrong to use unpaid interns or it isn’t . I’m glad that your last intern found work – but as you are well aware many people can’t afford to work for nothing for 3 months.
@Merel “given these opportunities to young people from a black or minority ethnic background, who are pretty much excluded from working for MPs ” How are people from ethnic minorites excluded from working for MPs ?
I think there seems to have been a bit of confusion – the letter is to Tim Farron not to the EMLD or any specific SAO and is about party approach to support SAOs to avoid this kind of two-tier situation where two people doing the same job side by side would be in such drastically different financial situations.I don’t believe the letter denigrates the hard work of interns or that they do get something out of it – as it says, many of those of us who signed it are former interns ourselves, but we must ensure equal access in the party and fairness.
People have said how those who took up internships got so much out of it – but how much did all of those who were unable to take up the opportunity get out of it? At best they got nothing, at worse they were left with a feeling that the Lib Dems is a hobby for those with money and not for them – because interning is one of the ways often brought up as a way of getting the key experience needed in the party. That is why the letter suggests that the party works in co-operation with the SAOs and AOs to deliver internships. It also does not seek to impose any dictates upon SAOs, but merely on the condition of use of party property.
As a party we have campaigned against this, it seems impossible that we could allow this to continue on party premises.
@Simon McGrath I’m surprised you have singled out EMLD, but not a Lib Dem MP, who is currently advertising for a volunteer with a wide ranging job description.
@Sam Barratt you make a valid point. Until such time something is done to resolve this anomaly, throwing about ill advised comments on a public forum to EMLD is insulting to all the work carried out by our volunteer members.
Meral- I am not sure if the second part of your comment was directed at me, or more generally, but just to be clear I haven’t referred to the work of EMLD at all.
@Sam Barratt – it was directed at Simon McGrath.
Meral, is there a particular problem with the rich kids of BAME families finding employment? I thought it was the disadvantaged kids that particularly struggled and you’re (inadvertently) excluding them from this.
Have you considered that £2k could be better used for funding a campaign or something else rather than just dropping it into the pockets of someone who is already well off and advantaged?
I’m not entirely sure where we draw the line between unpaid internships and volunteering – as a member of the exec of another SAO which has received £0 from the Federal Party in the last decade, we rely heavily on our team of volunteers recruited from our membership to achieve our ends. Some of our volunteers are between jobs, or working part time, which gives them more time to dedicate to the SAO. But even some of us in full-time employment are giving dozens of hours a week to the organisation for no financial reward. We get “work experience” out of it, and that experience and the volunteering on our CV has helped some of us get paid work.
The party relies on thousands of unpaid volunteers like this doing everything from delivering Focus to managing teams of volunteers. Should we all get paid?
@merel – No they are no different. But EMLD have been promoting this role on FB and this artcile is about an SAO not an MP.
Simon, I wonder if you feel pleased at yourself for smearing EMLD in many different places I notice, allegedly on the grounds of hypocrisy, for being unable to pay an Intern despite having an overall budget of £2,000? It does not seemed to have worked in the sense that noone has publicly supported your campaign and I struggle to understand what your motives are; would you prefer EMLD not to exist or just be a paper organisation ?
Nick Clegg made a point a couple of years ago that businesses employing unpaid interns hinder social mobility because only people from rich backgrounds can afford to work unpaid. He is right. Obviously the onus should be on businesses to pay the going rate or the national minimum wage. However that is different from voluntary organisations that rely on volunteers to do their work. Over the years I have done a lot of work for the Liberal Democrats as a volunteer. It would be ridiculous for anyone to pay me for that.If I did get paid it would do nothing for my social mobility.
Incidentally if FCC rejected your motion for debate at conference then it could not only be Gareth Epps that thought your motion was naive.
Or course you could make a donation of £20,00 say, and then EMLD can pay for an intern, I am sure they would be happy to do so.
@Geoffrey – how on earth am I ‘smearing EMLD’. It was they who decided to advertise for an unpaid intern. And to reiterate a point you have ignored ,I have a track record of raising this issue, not just on this occasion.
Perhaps you should ask a member of the FE why EMLD have only been given a grant of £2,000.
Also slightly suprised to find you saying ‘noone has suporte my campaign. What on earth do you think the letter above is doing ?
“We are concerned that in spite of the strong words from Nick Clegg and Jo Swinson, amongst others, that a Specified Associated Organisation is advertising for an “intern” to be based at Liberal Democrat Headquarters in a position for up to three months with a list of various duties they could be asked to carry out.”