These are turbulent times in politics – dangerous and at the same time offering great opportunities to seize the initiative. The Lib-Dems have always been pro-European and we must lead the argument for a very close relationship with the EU post brexit. How to do this? Make a coalition pact with another Westminster party pre the next election.
The Labour party is in disarray with the majority of its members pro-Europe and anti Corbyn. Like all MPs, what they want, above all, is to retain their seats at the next election. This will be a wipe-out if Jeremy Corbyn is leader. So offer them the opportunity to canvass under a Liberal-Labour coalition, e.g. Labour (Lib-lab coalition). Meanwhile the Liberal Democrats would canvass under a Liberal-Democrat (Lib-lab coalition) banner. Both sides would determine where their support was strongest and refrain from putting up candidates against each other.
What would be the advantage of doing this and how would it work in practice? First of all 48% of the population voted to remain in Europe so if our negotiation strategy really emphasized our pro-European credentials we might be able to persuade a large chunk of these to our coalition. Secondly, a huge rump of Labour supporters voted for Brexit against Westminster’s wishes. So they are more than likely to vote for Nigel Farage now anyway. The rest, let’s call them New Labour supporters, might be persuaded to vote for them if they emphasized their centre-ground credentials by allying with us. Thirdly, there is no way that Jeremy Corbyn and his grass roots supporters will sign up to a coalition of the centre so from our point of view we can forget about them. Fourthly, we have worked very successfully in coalition before, modifying the extremes that the Conservatives otherwise might have chosen to follow.
In practice before the next general election we would first have to work out a shadow cabinet with at least the important posts negotiated between Labour and ourselves so that the electorate could see what they were voting for. Second, we would have to demand proper proportional representation as a prerequisite for our co-operation. Third, we would have to thrash out some sort of manifesto which all Liberal Democrats could support with full endorsement of wealth creation, social justice, but above all a pragmatic, sensible relationship with Europe. We don’t have to discard the principles we held leading up to the referendum, merely recognize that democracy has spoken and the UK has voted to exit the EU. So this doesn’t preclude us from negotiating the closest possible deal with the EU when article 50 has been triggered.
* I worked as a multimedia computer programmer in Oxford and now spend my retirement as a painter and illustrator (see ludwikart.com).
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Mick Taylor
33 Comments
1) You can’t trust the Labour Party.
2) How are you going to make decisions on which of the parties in a pact contests seats where (historically) both are in contention?
3) You can’t trust the Labour Party.
4) Both sides of the Labour Civil War are now leaning anti-EU. The Politics-by-Focus-Group of the Technocratic (popularly known as Blairite) wing are triangulating themselves into an anti-EU, anti-free movement, anti-trade position because that’s what’s popular right now, while the naer-do-wells of the far left are anti-EU because they think it’s “neoliberal” (whatever that is) and would stop them nationalising everything if they ever got into power (which they won’t, but nevermind).
5) You can’t trust the Labour Party.
6) A pact like this would negatively impact on the perception of the Party in areas that don’t lean somewhere between us and the Conservatives, and would not enhance the perception of the Party in areas that lean between us and Labour by any significant amount.
7) You can’t trust the Labour Party.
8) The negative impact on party morale by not standing a Candidate, and the likely impact of us losing huge ground locally by doing so, makes it a long-term negative for the Party as a whole.
9) You can’t trust the Labour Party.
Quite a smart idea but will depend whether labour splits or not.
Lib dems can get ahead of the curve by setting out what changes in circumstance you believe should trigger a further referendum e.g.:
– If proposed trade relationships are substantially less open than the Norway model that informed many leave voters thinking
– If fiscal commitments.such as the £350m per week additional NHS funding are reneged upon
– If it becomes clear though polling that those favouring brexit are now in a minority allowing for the margin of error in polling.
These wiyldtbe valid grounds for requiring the government (of whichever party) to be required to re-confirm their mandate before triggering Article 50.
Because the previous mandate was via referendum any reconfirmation would also have to be likewise.
Meantime, having allowed 16-17 year olds to vote in the scottish indyref the rules need updating to allow them to vote in all future referendums, and this must be a lib dem manifesto commitment, along with other measures such as secure online voting, to bolster turnout amongst the generation who will bear the consequences the longest.
“Trust” is not an issue; verification and enforcement mechanisms are (something conspicuously absent from our coalition agreement with the Conservatives).
Lets see how they respond to” Paddys Pact ” before we commit ourselves to any thing Labour has been nice to us in opposition but in power they can be as unforgiving as the Tories.
At the moment, the Labour Party have no authority to commit to anything, and it is not even clear that they will exist as a single party by the time of the next elections.
The Party has already gone quite a long way to offer Labour the possibility of a deal but that is dependent on the “Progressive” majority of The PLP either breaking away or Electing their own Leader & declaring themselves The Labour Party. Clearly The “Coup” has gone as far as it can & we have no idea what their “Plan B” is. Launching a new Leadership contest would only put things off & quite possibly achieve nothing. Its looks like The PLP majority are preparing to do something but we dont know what, we just have to wait & see for now.
Labour needs to split now as Momentum is the new Militant and they are in charge !
The 80s were a missed opportunity for the missed one of the Jo Grimond era.
We see Tim , our leader in this party , has enjoyed cross party campaigning.
Labour needs to become truly Socialist and left of Corbyn.
The birth of the Progressive Alliance , can take place mps and members in a new venture.
We join forces on one issue more than others- proportional representation !
‘Secondly, a huge rump of Labour supporters voted for Brexit against Westminster’s wishes. So they are more than likely to vote for Nigel Farage now anyway.’
I can only speak for my own part of the world, but this is palpable nonsense. If this really is what you think the voters are about then I weep for us all. A number of LDP voters went for leave.
Do you not accept that a great many voted to leave a political construct – no more no less. That not liking the EU does not make one a talkboard caricature.
Some people have very short memories.
Our party did make a deal with Labour in 1977, it was called the LibLab pact. It was supposed to deliver a number of things in return for our support of the then minority Labour government. Labour shafted us – most especially on PR for Europe – and we got hammered in the 1979 election, which returned the Tories to power.
Locally, we have made deals with Labour to run the council, but they are not to be trusted, because they are always looking at ways to renege on commitments. What they want to do is destroy us, not work with us.
It’s all very well making agreements at national level, but it’s making it work locally where it breaks down.
For once, I agree with McGregor.
By the way, there is no need for a progressive alliance or any such new party. That was the mistake when the SDP was formed. If the gang of four had joined us – and I remember correspondence with Shirley at the time – the result would have been a much stronger third force in politics than we actually achieved and a lot less bitterness and recrimination.
As one of the Liberal negotiators(Kent) with the SDP let me urge caution. 1. Unless your suggesting that Lib Dems stand down in seats where our presence defeats Labour and vice versa then the benefit would surely go to Labour and our supporters would take unkindly to it
2. A common agenda/manifesto would be needed and negotiated prior to election
3. A government flowing from this arrangement would need to have a number of unifying projects Electoral reform,House of Lords reform and a clear strategy on the economy to deliver stable financial levels and an ability to deliver on those issues which exercise the minds of our supporters.
4.Does this go on to Council elections or are we only talking about parliamentary ones
5. On what basis is a party chosen to be the lead party,based on 2010 or 2015.
this is all a nice idea but take it from an old hand and a bit of sceptic, tread carefully before you wish yourself into oblivion.
Yes, I am afraid that the vast majority of Labour activists hate and despise us, and you only have to go on any neutral political forum to find that out….
They don’t trust us any more than we trust them..
If there was a new party, like the SDP, that would be different, but still we would have to be very careful…
@paul barker.
If the Parliamentary Labour Party thought they could beat Corbyn in a leadership election they would have triggered it. Angela Eagle and the other guy haven’t put themselves forward because they think they would lose.
From a Lib Dem viewpoint, the longer Corbyn remains in post, the better.
I cannot see the new Tory prime minister missing an opportunity to go to the polls when Labour are in such turmoil, so any talk of deals is off the table anyway because if there is a snap poll, Corbyn will be the Labour leader and there would in any event be no time to sort out any agreement.
Mick Taylor: you are right but if the Tories go to the Country whilst Labour is in dissaray. how many existing labour MPs will be endorsed by their Constituency parties….what a mess
Before the last general election I thought the party shouldn’t have stood candidates against centrist Conservative MPs or centrist Labour MPs. But that’s because I’m a centrist, so I didn’t see the point in kicking other good centrists out of parliament.
The Lib Dems have a wide coalition of voters and it’s unlikely any kind of pact with another party could work without splitting it, unless the Labour Party split properly and said they had nothing to do with the far left.
I would suggest anti-Corbynistas resign the Labour whip and they then have 3 options. Sit as independent Labour and hope losing the official Opposition status to the SNP brings Corbyn to his senses. Form a new party, maybe using the Co-operative Party vehicle. And take the Official Opposition status. Those who are more social democrats can talk to Tim and their local party about joining this party and taking our whip. I’m certainly not going to do anything to help my wastrel Labour MP (who in a previous life I helped get elected in ’97 to my regret) get re-election under a pact. I’d have to vote for another candidate from another party. Post -election coalitions maybe as long as we’ve learned the lessons. But note, if Gove or Leadsom take the Tory leadership we may see a realignment of the more Centrist and pro-EU Tories as I can’t see them supporting isolationist views. I can see even Boris will have his revenge.
“– If fiscal commitments.such as the £350m per week additional NHS funding are reneged upon”
I guarantee that no-one believed that figure. If they did then they will be supporters of cannabis legalisation too.
A lot of the commentary is based on the old certainties when what has happened is to make the only predictable think unpredictability.However, I will very boldly predict one thing-the lust for power is deep in the psyche of the Conservative Party and, although they may lose a few M.P’s, they will stick together and, unless the non-socialist left can find some bargain that will keep Liberals,Social Demicrats, Greens, P.C. and SNP from fighting each other, we are doomed not only to Brexit but for a long period of Tory government.
If you look at the stuff trickling out of The PLP meeting tonight it sounds like they have nearly decided to do something, but what that is I dont know. Keep watching the internet.
What a perfect scheme for destroying what’s left of a Liberal Democrat organisation in hundreds of seats. We have tried this idea before in the 20s and 30s and look where it got you.
There is a simpler option – we align with Labour and other progressive parties against the Tories and UKIP. However we limit it to an electoral pact covering a few marginal seats.
If we stood aside in a few marginal Con-Lab marginals, it could easily put Labour into Downing Street instead of the Conservatives. In exchange we could ask them to stand aside in some Con-Lib seats, though we might do better to trade for manifesto pledges – to maintain our position in the EU and to introduce a fair voting system.
The deal would come with no obligations as to what might happen in the event of a hung parliament – and would be agreed in a businesslike manner (not a love-in that would offend our centre-right leaning voters).
Of course this assumes Labour still exists as a party in the way we currently know it, and that the leadership is one we can work with. We will see…
What Alisdair McGregor said in the first response. You cannot trust the Labour Party. A Crabb-led Tory party might be quite progressive. A May led Tory Party might give us the kind of post-Brexit deal we can live with and we might find it advantageous to support her against her far right. Any of the other 3 would be a disaster and a deal with the devil would be preferable. But you cannot trust the Conservative Party either.
if only …
alas, you can’t trust Labour (Lib Lab pact let down, Blair let down, SDP a nightmare in many parts in the 80s).
You can’t trust Labour seems to be the mantra of most posts….Strange then that it was ‘trust of the Tories’ that turned us into a party whose MPs wouldn’t even fill a stretch limo…
Perhaps, instead of ‘silly statements’ we might remember the words (amended) of Henry Kissinger that, “We, as a party, should have no permanent friends or enemies, only interests.”
We really do need to forget about alliances with bits of the Labour Party. There is very real money involved. Trade Union money in particular. There would be only a handful of Labour MPs who could survive more than one election without the funding that this gives, and just as important the organisational clout.
Apart from The LibLab pact with the faltering Callaghan government in the 1970’s,
this sounds very much like the informal coalition Ashdown and Blair arranged to ensure that, unlike 1992, in 1997 we would kick out corrupt and anti-EU Tory MP’s like the Hamiltons.
But Labour again welshed on their part of the deal: the Roy Jenkins State Commission on electoral reform was allowed to publish its report in 1998, but Blair didn’t do a thing about it; see Roy’s item in the English Wikipedia. Paddy couldn’t do a thing about it (see vol. 2 of his published diaries, 1997-’99)….
We helped Blair get an Attlee-like majority, they said thank you and walked off.
Just because Labour MP’s now fear for their survival, isn’t a guarantee that they wo’nt do it again. Old habits die hard.
The coalition with the Tories was making the best of a difficult election result; no love match (especially after the first year).
The Dutch social liberals co-operated twice with the Social Democrats, and both ended disastrously:
first, the interbellum party VDB (1901-’46) in 1945 (our liberation from occupation) merged with the socialist SDAP , and got devoured; nothing of the social liberal tradition and way of thinking survived in the merged party PvdA, which became 100% socialist.
The modern social liberal D66, founded 1966, formed (in 1971-‘3) a “shadow coalition government” (something new in politics) together with the new green party PPR and the PvdA; and the three had a common electoral program in 1972. This time too the Socialists (PvdA) after the elections paid scant heed to D66 or PPR, and went on riding its leftist hobbyhorses. In 1973 the PvdA aborted the planned merger in a Progressive People’s Party, because they were doing quit nicely themselves, thank you very much.
We had quite a fight to restore our previous number of seats.
Let’s drop the inferiority complex; we LibDems are the homogenous European party now; if Labourites wagree, let them join us as they did in the 1980’s.
And I agree with Tom Harney; don’t get involved with TUC sponsor money…
@Stevan Rose: “A Crabb-led Tory party might be quite progressive.” – This is the guy who thinks that homosexuality is a mental illness that can be cured. What makes you think he might tend to be “progressive”?
Bernard Aris 5th Jul ’16 – 10:43am……………Let’s drop the inferiority complex; we LibDems are the homogenous European party now; if Labourites wagree, let them join us as they did in the 1980’s…………And I agree with Tom Harney; don’t get involved with TUC sponsor money…
Oh, dear….The EU that we are so passionate about staying in (to the extent that we are trying to overrule the OMOV decision of the electorate) was a coalition with limits…
There is nothing wrong with a coalition that has agreed limits….The problem with 2010 was that we gave up our identity……..
.
If there was any real demand for the sort of left of centre party that Corbyn’s opponents are said to dream about then the Liberal Democrats would be soaring in the opinion polls not languishing at 6 – 7%. The centre of gravity has moved to the right in England and Wales but there is litle sign of a Labour Party collapse in actual elections or opinion polls. Corbyn may not be a brilliant leader but he has energised the remnants of the political left and there is no sign of anyone able to beat him in any election among the membership of the Labour Party. Those who oppose him seem more worried that they might lose their seats or the next election unless he goes but there is little evidence to support that view. Many of the 48% who voted REMAIN did so becaue they were afraid of change and believed the horror stories put out by the REMAIN campaign. If as seems likely nothing much happens for a while then those people may drift to LEAVE or abstention. There seems very litle popular support for the EU except among some, probably non voting, young people. Any further reduction in the voting age will mean a further fall in the percentage of the electorate voting as even now only about a third of 18 – 24 year olds vote, so that elections will soon be seen as unrepresentative and conveniently ignored.
Labour now admits that discussions about a split are happening. Labour List (The Labour equivalent of LDV) have even published an article asking Labour supporters not to talk about a split.
My preferred option would be for the 172 Labour Rebels to simply join us. Tim would become Leader of The Opposition & we would suddenly be taken a lot more seriously. I dont suppose that is likely though.
Its still not clear what The PLP majority are planning to do or when; we just have to make encouraging noises & watch carefully.
“This is the guy who thinks that homosexuality is a mental illness that can be cured.”
Your evidence? Crabb denies the allegations and blames a smear campaign. He’s out of the running anyway.
Bernard Aris: If the Liberal Democrats are the European Party how is it that in many of the seats recently held by Liberal Democrat MPs the majority of voters chose LEAVE as their preferred option. Even in places like Cornwall which receives big subsidies from the EU, LEAVE was victorious and in South Somerset which has the former Westland Aircraft factory in Yeovil LEAVE won and there was only modest support for a second referendum.
Liberal Democrat support for the EU resulted in very poor support in the European Parliament elections. At least we will not have to go through that again and UKIP will lose the huge salary and expenses package which they got for their MEPs. With all the Brexiteers disappearing when faced with the reality of leaving the EU UKIP might not be around as a siginificant force for much longer. Maybe it will unite with the Conservatives like the National Liberals in the 1950s
Lib Dems say Labour and Tories cannot be trusted; Labour and Tories say Lib Dems cannot be trusted. RIP ‘Grown-up Politics’.
“RIP ‘Grown-up Politics’.”
Generally speaking, with some exceptions, Lib Dems trust Lib Dems though. At least since Farron became leader. Whereas Labour clearly don’t trust Labour right now and Tory Blue on Blue battles show they don’t trust their own either.
“the 172 Labour Rebels to simply join us”
Can we be a bit more selective please. Many of those 172 are authoritarian dyed in the wool socialists with views incompatible with this Party. Benn, Beckett and Umunna yes, Angela Eagle no way.