An email from the Chair of the Federal Campaigns and Elections Committee James Gurling has been sent explaining what the suspension of campaigning in respect for the victims of the Manchester attack means:
By now you will all have seen and heard about the terrible events of yesterday. Our thoughts are with everyone affected by the tragic attack in Manchester.
We, along with the other political parties have agreed to suspend our campaigns until further notice.
That means until further notice, please do not carry out any public campaigning activity – that includes canvassing, campaigning online, leaflet delivery and any street stalls.
This site won’t be posting any election related material today.
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85 Comments
Wicked beyond belief.
Having just heard the news, I agree that all political activity should end. As a nation we need time to mourn for the innocent young people who have lost their lives, and for those who will forever have to live with the consequences of such an evil act.
It’s awful.
I’m not so sure I agree with suspending campaigning or all political activity unless it means postponing the election.
The election is unnecessary and a waste of public money. A terrible event. Over the next week or two there will be the heartbreaking funerals and the family grief. I know some will say this means the bomber has won, but I would cancel the election full stop. Legally there is no House of Commons the monent, but if the election is cancelled all existing MPs retake their seats and there would be by elections to fill any vancies from retirees. I guess some of the retirees would return. Yes cancel the election.
Politicians say that terrorism will not win, but we have an attack, and as during the EU referendum, campaigning has been stopped. This has to be the complete opposite of what should be done, which is to carry on and refuse to let terrorists interrupt the democratic process.
Tend to agree that if Campaigning is suspended for more than a couple of days then the GE should, if legally possible, be cancelled!
I have to agree with Mark Seaman.
Suspending all campaigning ‘until further notice,’ simply plays into the hands of those who want to undermine and disrupt our democracy.
I agree with Louise and Mark.
By all means suspend campaigning for today as a mark of respect but anything more is letting the anti-democratic forces win. Will we cancel every General Election from now on if there is a terrorist attack during the campaign???
Meanwhile the postal votes will be going out in my area tomorrow, and so they should!
Whilst it is absolutely right that campaigning has stopped today, it must resume tomorrow. To delay the election, or to suspend campaigning further, would lead to accusations that politicians are exploiting the tragedy to avoid scrutiny. This muddying of the tragedy and the election cannot be allowed to happen.
What is the rationale for cancelling the general election?
David,
The rationale is that you are curtailing scrutiny and tying campaigners hands behind their backs by turning it into a patriotic duty to keep quiet. Plus whilst the politicians may agree not to campaign the media will not.
As a non-politician, I would say that the rationale for a cessation of election politics , is that every other issue becomes insignificant compared to the overwhelmingly tragic and needless loss of young lives, and the suffering of their families and friends.
I can understand why others might feel differently, but the reason why the callous murderers will not succeed, is not because we can demonstrate business as usual, but because we can feel a human empathy that they are incapable of.
I think a one-day pause is okay, anything more plays into the hands of the bombers (and the Tories). What happens if there is another one tomorrow? and then another?
Let us remember with some humility that there are countries where this kind of thing happens every week, and more often during election campaigns.
The first question we should ask ourselves is what we can do to reduce the suffering of those who have seen their Children killed & of those childen who have lost Brothers, Sisters & Friends.
Suspending The Election would not be much but it would be something. Do we really want campaigning to be going on alongside Childens Funerals ?
I get the arguments about not wanting The terrorists to think they have achieved anything but suppose Twenty Odd Children had died in an accident of some sort, would we still want The Campaign to resume ?
It seems to be that The Election should be abandoned, at least till September. Theres a case for going back to 2020, its not as if we were having it now for any profound reason.
Lets say that the Families who are suffering come first.
Incidentally, I voted Yesterday, I dont see that it matters.
I don’t agree with cancelling election campaigning although I suspect it’s been done to control the message. We need to get back to delivering a positive message from tomorrow.
As a non-politician, I would say that the rationale for a cessation of election politics , is that every other issue becomes insignificant compared to the overwhelmingly tragic and needless loss of young lives, and the suffering of their families and friends.
Really? 22 people would be about 4 days worth of UK road accident deaths or 90 minutes worth of cancer deaths or 3 days worth of neonatal (first 28 days) deaths or about 8 hours worth of mental health/behavioural related deaths or a few hours of PM2.5 air pollution deaths.
To put it into perspective – even if you have a relative who died specifically in Greater Manchester and specifically yesterday, its way more likely that your relative died of one of the big 3 (circulatory diseases, cancer, respiratory diseases) than due to this cowardly bombing.
So no, other issues don’t pale into insignificance simply because a relatively small number of people die in the same place of the same cause rather than in separate places of the same cause.
Obviously as politicians it’s difficult to “lead” on this, until more normal citizens take a level-headed view, but as citizens we should be telling everyone we know the following:
The fact is that killing a couple of dozen civilians in a country of 60 million makes absolutely no sense as a strategy of war, whether holy or otherwise. Terrorism only works if it spreads fear to the wider population and therefore the only defence to it is simply to refuse to be afraid.
It is a reasonable assumption that whoever is responsible for this atrocity seeks to attack our way of life. That includes holding elections. With only two weeks to go, suspending campaigning until after the weekend surely hands the perpetrators a propaganda gift: they could claim to have successfully disrupted our election process. Worse: it would encourage them and others similarly to time their wicked acts.
In my opinion, full campaigning should resume Friday.
Who on earth cares about playing into the hands of the Tories. May is the British Prime Minister and speaks for our nation. She was measured and impressive today. Today is all we think about until tomorrow. This horror indicates why we as a party are correct to be able to get on with all parties in our democracy. And why democrats of all political colours always condemn with our most vociferous of voices, this evil , this outrageous attack on democracy and decency. We think of those dear young people , and all lost in this horror, and the terrific services and communities that help so brilliantly. Today we are Mancunians, not Liberal Democrats , nor Conservatives, or Labour.
As Churchill once allegedly remarked, “Keep buggering on”. KBO.
Apologies for the language, but hard times need hard responses.
I just wonder what we are in Politics for – “First, do no harm” might be a good place to start. We have to try to see The Election the way most Voters see it, as a “neccesary evil” not as something great & noble. For most people thinking about those dead Children The Election Campaign will be an annoying noise at best.
One Day of silence isnt enough & its also too much. A period of National Mourning & a divisive Election Campaign just dont mix. My fear is that we add to the suffering of the bereaved & widen the division between those who “get” Politics & those who dont.
Theres nothing special about June 8th, September would do as well or May 2020.
My question was
“What is the rationale for cancelling the general election?”
NOT
“What is the rationale for postponing campaigning?”
Well said Lorenzo;
Personally I agree with those who say that after a short period to reflect and remember those who have died and been injured and their families, we should not allow terrorists to disrupt our election, the propaganda win for them would be massive, and as others have said, sadly, there are some countries who experience events like this far more often and particularly during elections.
Glad others agree with me! Seems to me all the resources that are going to be deployed to cover politicians, political events over the next 2 weeks would be better and more effectively deployed to preventing more incidents like this. The General Election is a secondry matter and should be stopped.
The news states that ‘Islamic State’ is claiming responsibility, the Queen has thanked the emergency There are manyservices and there has been a controlled explosion.
Theresa May has stated that those responsiible are cowards, as previous spokesmen and women have done. Sadly I do not understand this. There are many words and phrases available. How about murderous?
There are precedents here. I recall being an agent in a local ward in the 1996 Scottish Council elections when the Dunblane school shootings happened. All parties agreed to pause campaigning for 2 or 3 days – no more than that – and then resumed. Then in August 1997 Princess Diana died in the middle of the Scottish Parliament referendum. Again, there was an agreement to pause the campaign for just a couple of days before pressing on. And of course last year Jo Cox was killed in the middle of the Euro referendum, and we managed both to observe a period of respect and also continue the democratic process. What has happened in Manchester is awful, but I do think we need to show that our democratic elections won’t be subverted by such acts.
I would be very unhappy if campaigning were to be curtailed any further than today.
I think Tony Greaves’s point – “What happens if there is another one tomorrow? and then another?” is very important. Given the extent to which radical Islamists oppose democracy – postponing or cancelling the election seems to me to be giving the terrorists what they want. If this atrocity was indeed carried out using a home-made device another could very easily happen in a few days time – it may be that the security services have thwarted a good many such attacks.
This would not be the first time terrorism involving fatalities has occurred during UK general election campaigns. The IRA Guildford pub bombings took place in the run-up to the October 1974 election and the provisional IRA murdered 4 police officers in Bessbrook, County Armagh in the run-up to the 1979 general election.
The major diffierence this time is in the targeting of innocent children and their families. But 16 innocent children and their teacher were murdered in the Dunblane mass shooting – which TonyH has reminded us took place during Scottish local election campaigning.
I think Tony Greaves and TonyH are right. We should not allow our democratic processes to be subverted by terrorism.
Today we see hate and a mindset that carries out senseless acts of evil, all our thoughts are with the families of those who have lost loved one’s. But I have to say, the General Election is not secondary in my book, it’s central to our way of life and I have no wish to surrender one inch to those who would take great delight in seeing such a core constitution principal being surrendered. We should not be intimidated nor concede an inch to these few barbaric individuals, but show the perpetrators of this evil act, our democracy won’t be subdued by those who hate our way of life.
If I were a senior Lib Dem I would worry that calls on this site for a suspension of the General Election could be depicted by other parties as political opportunism by a party that is tanking in the polls.
I agree with those who believe that a General Election is too important to be derailed, even by an event as horrible as last night’s.
I just want to make it clear that I would only be in favour of suspending the election if campaigning continued to be suspended.
Terrorists do tend to favour bombs near election time. So, a significant campaign pause respects the dead, but, substantial campaign disruption would give the bombers what they want.
@ Richard S,
I don’t need to have the term neonatal death explained to me.
I am also aware of how some people use false comparisons and their reasons for doing so.
Theakes,
How many times would you be prepared to postpone an election as a result of a terrorist attack??
Obviously the liberal democrats cannot act unilaterally here. But all the political parties should show some leadership by showing that Elections ARE very important in our democracy, and cannot be postponed by terrorist acts. Furthermore, free and unrestricted (within the law) campaigning is what sets us apart from totalitarian countries. I cannot recall the exact length of the campaign pause in the Jo Cox case, but that sets an appropriate recent precedent.
I have checked. The referendum campaign was suspended for two full days after the murder of Jo Cox, resuming on Sunday 19th June
Glad I prompted a discussion. To me safety is first and paramount, an election is secondry. Democracy is not affected beceause an election does not happen for reasons of security, safety & respect for those who have suffered.
Parliament has been dissolved. Lacking a Parliament the only way the General Election could be stopped or postponed would be if the Queen were to resume the application of powers last used by the Stuart monarchs.
@ theakes As Domimic Grieve has pointed out, even the most authoritarian and controlled societies cannot guarantee the absolute safety of their population, so safety cannot override all other issues, particularly in a democratic society. While the IRA did not explicitly set out to kill civilians, collateral death was always a possibility, yet even in Northern Ireland, where the threat was greatest, politics continued, and so it should be now.
I just wonder if those who suggest that the election should be postponed would explain how, exactly, they think that could happen.
Currently parliament is dissolved and there are no MPs. So it is simply not possible for the House Of Commons to “undissolve” itself, because there is no-one able to make that decision.
How does campaigning show disrespect? How do elections risk our safety and security? Why can’t we act unilaterally?
Four years after the 1987 general election another general election was expected. Three bye-election wins set the Tories back in Eastbourne, Ribble Valley and Kincardine-Deeside. The press continually asked the Tory Chairman, Chris Patten, when the general election would be and he continually prevaricated. I mentioned this to the then Alliance Party leader John Alderdice, who said that the delay was not helping Northern Ireland (during the troubles).
https://www.bing.com/search?q=john+alderdice+baron+alderdice&form=WNSGPH&qs=AS&cvid=64e16300ef314c9a8dfae78919eff1c4&pq=John+Alderdice&cc=GB&setlang=en-US&nclid=D19A84F13F0AA22DEE7AE50DDCF460A0&ts=1495562297861
I just hope that our local campaigns can survive for 48 hours without the boost they have been getting from our national campaign?
Simon Shaw,
Good point. I must admit I just assumed that there was a mechanism that took into account the possibility of a national crisis.
@ Ian. What local campaigns? If local campaigners have complied with James Gurling’s request, all campaigning, local as well as national, has been suspended.
The question is: for how long?
I agree with Tony Greaves. Pause, then keep calm and carry on.
@Nonconformistradical
Totally agree. We are allowing democratic politics to be overridden at the whim of terrorists. In the past millions have died to preserve democracy, and we must not throw our freedom away in mawkish sentimentality.
It is right to stop campaigning for the one day but anything more should be done in conjunction with other political parties. If this happens then we would have to postpone the election to say perhaps September.
Not only will there be children’s funerals there will be inquests which will probably be opened and adjourned. I am aware that one person has been arrested and there might or might not be more and this will involve the initial court process those charged appearing at the magistrates courts.
Instead of cancelling things we need Parliament to urgently consider the steps necesary to deal with terrorist outrages. We wait until there is another outrage and our culture does not permit us to deal with terrorists before they kill people. This has to change. We are at war with these people and in wars pre emptive strikes are needed if we are to avoid endless repeats. Innocent people get killed so the arrest of anyone reasonably suspected of planning terrorist attacks has to be implemented without delay before they kill people, not afterwards. Not very liberal but the lives of innocent children and adults have to be the priority.
I predict with some confidence that the Tories will try to postpone the resumption of campaigning as long as possible. That will be for reasons of naked self-interest. Anyone who thinks the Tories will not ride the wave of public opinion in their own self-interest is naive in the extreme..
A terrorist attack is a terrible thing, and yes, we must pull together as the people of Manchester have done. But Theresa May showed herself to be an incompetent, knee-jerk Home Secretary and I do not trust her to keep me and my family safe. So no, i am not happy to give her an easy ride to a big majority…
24 hours ago I had real hope that this election might not end in a coronation. Now I am not so sure. The Falklands War saved Thatcher and killed the SDP. This tragic event may also have long term consequences that are bad for Britain.
@nvelope2003
Not at all liberal and an example of why there needs to be liberally minded people offering a message of hope and security.
@ Andrew McCaig,
I agree with you that Theresa May was an incompetent Home Secretary, but I would have thought that she would want an early election.
There are many questions to be asked when the time comes, for example, the role of cut- backs in spending on our security forces, police, and border controls.
I would also add, the role of foreign policy past and present.
It is all too common that the perpetrators of these attacks are ‘ known to the authorities’.
Dominic Grieve is correct, when he says that security can never be watertight, but that does not mean that the citizens of the UK could not be better protected against those who wish us harm.
This atrocity happened on Mrs May and Amber Rudd’s watch.
@Jayne. So would you support another day off campaigning in memory of the thousands of people who have died of cancer since the start of the campaign?
If you are saying one group of people is worth suspending campaigning for and another group is not, then the onus is really on you to say why one group is more worthy of that than the other (or why it is a false comparison if you think it is).
The reason this matters is that the terrorists use a weapon made of two parts. One part is the bomb and the other part is our fear. There is a danger of handing them the second part of the weapon if we treat this as something of a magnitude that the numbers of people involved don’t objectively justify.
(btw I’m not saying the Lib Dems should continue campaigning, most of the public doesn’t think like me yet, I’m saying they should think like me)
@nvelope2003 – conspiracy type offences (to cause explosions?) already exist.
@Glenn
” I must admit I just assumed that there was a mechanism that took into account the possibility of a national crisis.”
In 2001 the scheduled early May local elections were postponed due to the foot and mouth disease outbreak. That required emergency legislation – see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1255703.stm – and Blair then called a general election for the revised local elections date (7 June).
Can’t do anything like that this time – Parliament has already been dissolved so can’t pass any legislation to postpone the general election…..
Even though I was in favour that canvassing for the General Election should take place; now security has been raised to Critical I believe it should be suspended until the threat is downgraded.
@Graham Evans
‘While the IRA did not explicitly set out to kill civilians,’
That’s a really fallacious argument. In the Northern Ireland troubles, all terrorist organisations sometimes targetted people just because of the church they went to or the pub thay happened to be drinking in or had gone shopping in a town centre. I could start listing specific instances from memory.
@Graham Evans
‘While the IRA did not explicitly set out to kill civilians,’
You obviously don’t recall Gerry Adams saying the families of British servicemen/women were legitimate targets. He said that the day after the baby daughter of a serviceman had been murdered by the IRA in Germany.
I think getting side tracked by arguments about the IRA misses the point. The IRA had a distinct organised chain of command, weapons stores and so on. In these attacks you’ve essentially had unpredictable murder sprees by suicidal people whipped up by religious fervour.
Andrew McCaig-:
I would suggest your statement says more about you than May or the conservative party.
Thekes-:
Would you stop the F.A. cup final or the rugby cup final as being trivial noise, or draining resources ,risking safety etc ,whilst families and friends are grieving?
France did not.
Greetings from Manchester. With few exceptions, the buses are running, trains are running, shops are open, planes are flying, joggers are jogging. Respects are being paid, security is tightened, people are cautious and alert, people are shocked. The tragedy is appalling; but we must not give the murderous terrorists the victory they crave by us suspending campaigning for more than a couple of days. To do otherwise puts at risk our democratic process, and as Churchill said “Democracy is a very bad form of Government, but all the others are so much worse”. Democracy is all we have, so saddle up and get on with it.
Robin. I think that’s exactly the right attitude. In the 1980s, when my mother was still alive in Belfast, we went into a local shop and I gradually became aware that all was not as it should be. The floor was uneven and the stock was displayed on a rag-bag assortment of tables. When I mentioned this to her, she said: ‘Yes, they were fire-bombed last week.’
Fulminating against an ethnic group as a whole is counter-productive.
Getting back to normal as quickly as possible, remaining tolerant and open-minded with a little extra vigilance and security, but not too much, is what is needed.
Campaigning must begin tomorrow morning. The issue of the atrocity is not separate to the election, especially given the connection to Libya and the rise of IS there in the vacuum created in the wake of our military action. To further delay would be an affront to democracy and a very obvious attempt by May to use the atrocity to avoid proper scrutiny.
Jayne, I don’t think implicitly blaming May for the successful attack is useful, if anything labour and libdems have opposed conservative attempts to give the security forces the funding and powers that they want.
If you were up to date with prevent and other strategies you would be aware that numerous plots have been foiled by a combination of public vigilance and our security forces, there was one foiled attack in my home town last, year not all the success hits the news, sometimes rightfully so.
@ Ian Sanderson There is a distinction between policy and implementation. In 2013 Martin McGuiness said that the IRA did not target civilians. You may not accept his claim, but that is irrelevant. However you seem to have completely missed my point. People were killed by IRA bombing but still political campaigning continued.
The Manchester bomber was known to the police like many of the other terrorists. It is apparently the law that the police cannot do anything until a terrorist has actually let off a bomb or committed some other act of terrorism. This has to change. Innocent children have to be killed before anything can be done. What is Liberal about that ?
Another change which is needed is the absurd rule that there are no MPs once a General Election has been called although presumably the Peers retain their position. MPs should remain in post unless they are defeated in the election so that Parliament continues just as the members of the Government do. Even here we would not expect the Prime Minister to leave office during an election.
nvelope2003
“It is apparently the law that the police cannot do anything until a terrorist has actually let off a bomb or committed some other act of terrorism. ”
This isn’t true. Planning, assisting and even collecting information on how to commit terrorist acts are all crimes under British terrorism legislation.
Tynan , nvelop,
Very good points. To me and most people who are in the mainstream, May is a fellow democrat even if I consider her undemocratic at times, the Conservatives are opponents, and even so we should not oppose them at times . Neither and none , are our enemies.
The trouble with the Labour party, is they in particular see parties and their adherents, as the enemy. The Tories sometimes do , about socialism as an ideology, but are less driven by party animosity, more a love of power !
We should sometimes tone down the rhetoric, or at least our leaders should. Absurd to go from matey in coalition to hatred in opposition .
I read stuff about May from the centre left that I do not share that view of at all. At worst mediocre , wrongheaded, intrusive, uncaring. These are words to say and mean or make effective thus. But not “the most heartless government ,” all the time , and “hard Brexit ” or “Brexit Conservative !” It just plays into the hands of a Prime Minister who is , as a personality , someone with presence and that can only increase with time in office …
Oh dear Lorenzo. No wonder we are in such trouble if people like you believe that the Conservatives are not our enemies. Regarding the Liberal Democrats, they have one aim in mind and that is to totally destroy us. Why, because we found a way to take seats off them in areas they considered their own. Jo Grimond started on the journey and people like David Penhalygon learned how to do it in the South West. Charlie K, Ray Michie and others learned how to do it in the highlands. And we did it with ever increasing success for nearly fifty years.
Coalition in 2010 gave them their chance and in 2015 they abused their massive economic power and the electoral rules to destroy us in most of the country. 2017 is a convenient way to finish us off (while undermining most of the Labour party as well).
As far as they are concerned it is a battle to the death and the longer we are in denial as to their motives, the more certain is their success.
@ Tynan,
I am aware of that Tynan. Our security forces do a magnificent job under very difficult circumstances, but they themselves have said that they are under-resourced given the task in hand.
I haven’t time to check again the number of individuals who are said to pose a real threat, but preventing individuals travelling to Syria and the ISIS strategy of telling these would -be jihadists that they should focus on causing terror on home ground, plus the number of returning jihadists and their families means that they have problems providing adequate surveillance.
Questions will be raised in due course. But I remember the frustration of David Blunkett when he tried to overhaul the extradition laws etc., I remember the criticism of Alex Carlile on here because he wasn’t sufficiently ‘liberal’. It was the Liberal Democrats approach to dealing with terrorism that fed into my disenchantment with the party. I do not believe that we can deal with new threats using outdated methods and many of our anti terror laws are simply ‘lawyers charters’.
Jayne,
We keep hearing about the wonderful job our security forces are doing and how many plots they’ve foiled. But I want to see evidence. The evidence in this case is that the bomber was known, that he travelled backwards and forwards to Libya and Syria (both currently hotbeds of extreme politicised Islamism) and that this somehow translated to him being seen as a low level threat.
David Evans
People like you, is not a phrase I like, why not be more specific and less combative .
That gets to my point. Electorally, politically, see people as you do rather than I said, regarding the Tories, but not individually , personally.
There are many areas of the country and constituencies, and candidates , who are Tories of varying levels of divisiveness. One cannot tar all with the same brush.
Besides, many in the centre left have something in common with moderates in all parties on many issues. It is not all left right black white.
I see people for who and what they are . If others do not , so be it.
@ Glen,
When adequate resources are not made available, mistakes happen. It is all too easy to blame those at the coal face when they are battling against the odds with under- resourcing and inadequate manpower.
The Labour MP Khalid Mahmood was yesterday reported as saying that border control was cut by 40% after 2010. Mrs May has been Home Secretary for 6 years during the time of the coalition government and the two years since. I need to fact check that.
Given the information that is coming to light, we are right to feel incredulous that the safety of UK citizens, the prime responsibility of government, was handled in the way that it seems to have been at a time of heightened threat. But we need to be sure of our facts.
@ Lorenzo, All the lessons of history are that the Conservative Party as an organised political force throughout history were and still are ruthless predators who aim to eliminate anyone who gets in their way.
I am sure you will meet individual Conservatives who are pleasant decent individuals, but I suggest you reflect on Matthew 7 : 16 “By their fruits shall ye know them”.
I know for fact they are drafting in additional outside help and finance to target our remaining parliamentary seats including Tim (as they did two years ago), so with great respect, people should wise up.
David Raw, I think Lorenzo was just making the point that there are people in all the main parties who share many of our values. Of course the Conservatives are trying to take votes from us, just as we are trying to take votes from them. That does not make them bad people. It is just how politics works.
Conviction for causing explosions carries a life sentence at the discretion of the sentencing judge, as with attempted murder, etc. Murder carries a mandatory life sentence.
Point taken, Catherine, although I’ve seen them operate at Westminster and in local authorities.
David , and Catherine
David , Catherine makes a very welcome addition here for which I am glad, and your response is good.
An example. When I started out in the performing arts, in open auditions, I got the part of Fagin in Oliver, at the Wimbledon Theatre, a rather significant charity production in which Oliver was played by a ten year old called, Anthony Mellor, the son of David Mellor, then my local mp, and new Culture Secretary. One of our guests of honour at the production, who I later went on to briefly work with , was my hero, Lord Attenborough. He and I were members of the Labour party. Attenborough, regularly attended Chelsea football with Mellor, and they were friendly. My politics were very similar to Attenboroughs , he was a founder member of the SDP, had been Labour since young, later got involved and returned, when he got to know Neil Kinnock. David Mellor despite being my local mp, a Tory cabinet minister , and I , Labour, was not seen by me as my enemy, but as the father of my co star in our production. He was very kind to me, I was twenty years nearly, younger than him, , as he thanked me for being kind to his son. Subsequently , he and young Anthony, invited me to the first night at the National Theatre, where Anthony secured the part of one of the princes in the tower , to the Richard III of , Sir Ian Mckellan ! I was delighted the young fellow that night at the after show party autographed me my programme” to the greatest actor , apart from Ian Mckellan !
Some things go beyond politics …
P. S.
A further illustration as to party politics, when Lord Attenborough returned to Labour, Lady Attenborough , the lovely actress and his best mate, Sheila Sim, remained a supporter of the subsequent, Liberal Democrats. At election time he put up Labour posters in one part of the house in windows, she , Liberal Democrat ones in another set of them !!!
@Catherine Jane Crosland “there are people in all the main parties who share many of our values”
It’s very subjective, and probably coloured by the fact that I visit this site, but my impression is that in the past Liberals / SDP / Alliance / SaLaDs / Lib Dems tried harder to win people over to a particular set of values but these days they seem to be defined more by opposition to other parties. There are those who hate the SNP the most, those who hate Labour the most, and those who hate the Tories the most (I hesitated before using “hate”, but that is what comes across sometimes). As a result, it no longer seems as apparent what is the essence or the identity of the party and who are its core constituency: anti-Brexit may be a flag to rally around, but it is not enough to define a political party.
Perhaps it has always been like this and a combination of coalition government, rolling news and social media means the party can no longer present itself differently in different parts of the country.
And maybe that is why the identity crisis triggered by Coalition has not been resolved and why the party is languishing in the polls.
Lorenzo, Thank you for sharing that lovely story. I think we should recognise that many politicians from other parties are liberals with a small l, and even those who could not necessarily be considered to be liberals are often people who sincerely want to make the world a better place – they just disagree with us about how to bring this about. I find it annoying when people speak as if quite minor disagreements with other parties are a conflict between good and evil.
Peter Watson, I agree that the party should be trying to win people over to liberal values, but that all too often recently the party has, instead, seemed to be more interested in attacking other parties and their leaders.
@ Tynan,
I am sorry if I made an implicit criticism of Mrs May, I usually make my criticism of her explicit. And Tynan, Labour have not been in power for 17 years.
Vicious spending cuts were made by the coalition government and now the tories governing alone.
There should be police on our streets at the moment, not soldiers who are being used to make up for the inadequate numbers of specialist trained police.
The devastating result of cut -backs since 2010 have been dismissed with nonsense about greater efficiency savings. Well, its a lie. Any fat was long since drained, and we are seeing the consequences in every public service including the most important of all, security.
Catherine
Whether in agreement with you on specific policies or points of view, and usually ,I am, you are a true Liberal Democrat, because you are liberal and democratic. It is a wonderful thing to share in this site with you.
Jayne surely some typo there? or I’m missing some time.
I never said questions shouldn’t be asked and undoubtedly they will be, however in my opinion that comment seems a bit of a cheap shot, especially coming so early in the day. I think anyone in power, regardless of party will spend some time throughout the rest of their life second guessing the decisions they have made when such an event happens, I would doubt they need encouragement to do so from anyone.
Most people I know, even those who hate them, tend to recognise the fact that the natural inclination of the Conservative party is to be as strong as possible on defence and security, in much the same way that Labour has a rep for defending the NHS and welfare. If Tories make cuts to the numbers in or capabilities of security services then, I, would suggest that they at least must think other choices are even worse, to do so is entirely against their own inclinations and those of their core vote.
If I remember correctly, the Lib Dems were in government with the Conservatives 2010 – 2015 I don’t recall any serious opposition from them to the cuts. Since 2015 when the Conservatives have been on their own defence and security spending has increased, if only a little, again I haven’t until recently heard LibDems or Labour political beasts demanding more spending on this issue, in fact, I have heard demands for increases for almost everything else but that, where is the LibDem or Labour tax hike policy to fund national security?
Lorenzo, Thank you. This site would not be the same without your wisdom, common sense, kindness and generosity.
@ Tynan,
I am not sure what you mean by so early in the day. Local campaigning has resumed and it suits some to quieten the anger that many feel. The Government and Mrs May have chosen to ignore warnings since before this atrocity. There is no second guessing. It was just the time and place that were unknowns.
‘Community policing has collapsed, Intelligence has dried up. Your cuts are putting National Security at risk.” Manchester MET Police officer.
This is just warning from one MET Police Officer that she herself had presented with Community Police Officer of the year award in 2010 who felt he had to leave in 2012. His moving pleas to Mrs May regarding cuts can be heard on video on Nye Bevan News.
Graham Evans – “In 2013 Martin McGuiness said that the IRA did not target civilians.”
So does that mean that they did not actually target civilians?? In 2013 McGuiness was well into his revisionist phase. I can understand why he would want to re-write history. But when you plant bombs in pubs, shopping centres, railway stations and hotels you cannot seriously claim that you are not targeting civilians.
Mrs May does not seem to have profited from the recent bombing. Her opinion poll lead is down to 5% (Con 43 Lab 38) Lib Dems are slightly up. The voters seem to have seen through Conservative pretensions at last. Yes they are a wicked lot.