If I saw a transgender person, I’d kill them.
That happened. A young transgender person heard that fall casually from the lips of a classmate one day in class. The classmate didn’t know they were talking about someone not three feet away from them, but that’s not the point.
Even though my young acquaintance knew that they weren’t in the wrong, it was still a huge dent to their confidence. A blatant attack on your right to exist is never going to be easy to deal with. All school pupils, staff and parents should know that homophobic, transphobic or biphobic abuse will never be tolerated. That threat of physical harm in that example of hate speech was particularly appalling but those phrases like “You’re so gay” are just the stop of a slippery slope and need to be challenged by education from the earliest age.
It’s been good to see the Government, in a move personally championed by Nick Clegg and Jo Swinson, ensure that £2 million has been allocated specifically to combat this abuse. Jo said:
We know the damage bullies can have on young people’s self-esteem and educational attainment. There should be absolutely no excuse for this taking place in our schools.
Young people should grow up feeling safe expressing who they are, and we know that homophobic bullying stands in the way of this.
I am excited to see the creative proposals that this fund will bring about, to make sure we can bring homophobic, biphobic and transphobic bullying to an end.
This only applies in England, though. Scottish Government guidance makes no specific reference to homophobic, biphobic or transphobic bullying. In Northern Ireland, the situation is even worse with its assembly not even prepared to contemplate equal marriage. The Welsh Government has some resources, though. Unfortunately, the T seems to have fallen off the end of LGBT.
Yesterday, Stonewall Scotland published a report that suggests that urgent action to combat homophobic bullying is needed north of the border. When almost 90% of secondary teachers and almost 40% of primary teachers say that pupils in their school have experience homophobic abuse and three quarters say they don’t know what they can say about LGBT issues despite the fact that Scotland’s Section 28 equivalent was repealed a decade and a half ago.
The Scottish Government think a generic anti-bullying policy is enough. These findings suggest otherwise.
I linked to Sarah Wollaston on Sunday and now I’m about to link to another Conservative, and the Daily Record all at once. Ruth Davidson MSP, leader of the Scottish Tories, has spoken out against the sort of homophobic abuse she gets:
I don’t want young LGBT people reading my timeline and thinking that that sort of language is OK. I don’t want them believing that the only response is to just sit passively and take it.
It is important to me that I retweet, highlight or challenge a cross-section of homophobic abuse I receive so young people feel able to do the same. We are allowed to say, ‘No, this is not acceptable.’
But it has to be more than LGBT people rejecting the insults. Others need to help.
Around 21 ,000 young people will attempt suicide this year because they are bullied for their sexuality.
Watching people being called ‘gay’ ‘p**f’ ‘dyke’ or ‘lesbo’online is not fun, it’s not banter and it ruins young lives. You can help it to stop.
If Scottish schools and youth organisations are looking for help with this, Stonewall Scotland has a fantastic education programme. Their education officer will visit schools and train on best practice and share Stonewall’s excellent resources.
* Caron Lindsay is Editor of Liberal Democrat Voice and blogs at Caron's Musings
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40 Comments
On 19th November the Welsh party will lead on the 1st ever debate on Trans issues at the Welsh Assembly
It is shocking that this is the first debate in 15 years but reflects the fact that we as Lib Dems respond to the needs of minorities when we are aware of them
We need desperately to improve our awareness of the smaller minorities and the minorities within minorities or else we lose sight of them and they suffer
I think you are right, Lauren. It’s part of being a liberal to recognise the different struggles that various groups of people face and always work to stop the sort of abuse that blights lives. Next week we’l be marking the International Transgender Day of Remembrance to mark those killed or hurt in transphobic attacks. We shouldn’t rest until such hate crimes are a thing of the past across the globe.
People get bullied for all sorts of reasons and it is always wrong. It will never be “stopped” but it always helps that particular kinds of bullying are clearly seen to be wrong.
One of the main targets for bullying are people (children) who are poor. It is a pity that this party tolerates so much that results in people being poor.
Tony
Tony Greaves is correct. Bullying happens for reasons that have nothing much to do with the person being bullied.
As such, it sees to me that focussing on stopping bullying of one demographic is surely unlikely to have any overall effect. Won’t it just transfer the problem to another demographic?
Certainly support needs to be given to the people being bullied. And teachers, parents, and indeed everyone needs help to know how to identify and prevent it. But a long term solution needs to focus on what causes people to become bullies.
Teaching unions have called for action on this for years as has the TUC LGBT conference
Yes there are many reasons for bullying but LGBT children and young people are amongst the most vulnerable. Even today the guardian reported (see Alliance of Liberal Democrats fb page) on how parents attacked a school head for daring to educate children on LGBT issues
LGBT issues are among the least understood areas of diversity. “Gay” a term of generic and specific abuse. So yes I agree with the opinions above but they are limited and do not reflect the vulnerability of or ferocity of hate against LGBT people
Tony Greaves and Richard Dean in here with a fantastic display of “whatabouttery”. The sooner we are shot of unimaginative dinosaurs like Lord Greaves, as a party, the better.
Oh dear. Matthew Huntbach, it’s all your fault. You used the term “whataboutery” on another thread recently, because you know what it means. It seems others don’t. Henceforth it would seem to mean “anything I disapprove of”.
As for “unimaginative dinosaur”…
Well, Lord Greaves knows what to do. He clearly needs to become an imaginative dinosaur!
Children are very informed these days if they know what a ‘transgender’ person is. All bullying should be challenged and as some say, the reason people are bullied is most important, whoever they are. I was short, fat and ugly at school and bullied for it. In the end I learned if you thumped a bully with whatever there was to hand, the bulling stopped. Its a hard lesson to learn when you are brought up to be kind and follow the rules yourself.
Tim Oliver describes himself on his own blog as — “…a 24-year old ….. …. all round irritating Liberal.”
The sooner the party is rid of people who describe themselves as “all round irritating”, the better it will be.
David Pollard glad you were able to use violence however illiberal it is. Glad it worked. Shame we were not all strong enough; shame many still aren’t. Shame not all bullying is violent and that non violent bullying is the worse kind
@David Pollard: “Children are very informed these days. . .”
Yes, they are. More than many adults, it would seem.
@Tim Oliver
I suppose it’s a question of whether the LibDems are a pressure group or a political party seeking to participate in government of and for all citizens.
As a pressure group for LGBT rights, LibDems would succeed in achieving something for this group of citizens if they stopped this bullying.
As a political party, LibDems would achieve nothing for the citizenry as a whole if the result was that the bullying was simply transferred to some other group of citizens.
Richard Dean I have rarely heard such nonsense
As Liberals we stand for all but especially the most vulnerable. Opposing hate against one group does not mean it is acceptable to hate others.
People will get the picture that bullying and hate is wrong per se even when we oppose the virulent hate against one group. If we had stood up for German Jews in the 30s then not only would 6 million Jews may still be living but also the 9 million others the Nazis murdered
Tony Greaves
‘People get bullied for all sorts of reasons and it is always wrong. It will never be “stopped” but it always helps that particular kinds of bullying are clearly seen to be wrong.
One of the main targets for bullying are people (children) who are poor. It is a pity that this party tolerates so much that results in people being poor.’
Tony Greaves is absolutely right on this – bullying of any kind for any reason is wrong. At school, bullying someone because they may not have the ‘right brands’ – of trainers, of phone, of bike etc… is a far more pervasive issue among children than some other issues. After all, we live in a consumer society, awash with messages of accumulation and status linked to brands.
Why doesn’t the party focus on this fundamental problem and wider economic inequalities in general?
@Lauren Salerno
Your idea of “nonsense” is based on the fact that you do not understand the problem. Like gangs, bullying serves a need. The bully may be needing some outlet for frustration or energy, or perhaps a way of asserting membership of a group. Many motives can cause a person to want to bully, and that desire can then lead to a need to select a target to bully. Unless the original need is addressed, the bullying won’t stop. All that will happen is that the targets will change.
Richard Dean having ben bullied throughout my school and receiving Transphobic abuse I think I know as much if more than most both practically and theoretically.
I care less for the bully than the victim and as a former Probation officer I also know that your view is very one dimensional and ineffective, at least at adult level.
Lauren, Richard Dean often talks nonsense (if I can get away with saying that), but on this occasion he’s right on the mark. It’s not trans people being bullied that’s the problem, it’s people being bullied and that needs to be tackled in all effective ways, including asking why people, particularly children, turn to bullying in the first place and how to stop that.
Of course it also requires being aware of what sort of things are picked on by bullies in terms of selecting a victim so that teachers can be quicker to spot it and to support the victim. But it’s the behaviour — the bullying — that’s wrong, not the specific “identity” (in the political sense) of the victim that makes it so.
@Lauren
Being inside a situation may make someone an expert on that particular situation, but it’s doesn’t make that person an expert on situations in general. The opposite can sometimes be the case, because it’s very difficult for many people to detach themselves from the situation, and see the situation from outside
@Malcolm
Like many people, most of what I say may be nonsense, but perhaps it’s made up for by the occasional gem-like object. So, thanks, and yes, please continue pointing out where you think it’s nonsense!
Malcolm Todd we have to protect the victim AND change the attitudes and situation of the bully
The latter is long term and unless we protect the victim in the meantime we will just see more and more children kill themselves.
Gender Identity is usually settled by age 5, mine was. I spent school knowing I was different and the bullies knew too. This is true for many. We will not stop bullying in a few months or years; we can protect the most vulnerable
Can we really “protect the most vulnerable” if the result is that the bully just chooses another “most vulnerable” target instead?
Prohibition didn’t work for alcohol. It doesn’t work for drugs. It doesn’t work for gangs. These things are things we may disapprove, but prohibition doesn’t work for other things too – Lauren indeed knows that it doesn’t work against LGBT people. So why should it work against bullying?
If our approach to bullying is to bully the bullies into submission, what does that say of our own humanity?
So what is your solution Richard – assuming you agree that we need a solution?
You’d perhaps best ask a sociologist or a child psychologist, David. And/or maybe the authors of this report. I’ve known school fights where people have almost been killed, girls on girls as well as boys on boys. Supervision is a short-term partial solution, but more like a sticking plaster than a cure. Educating parents as well as children. Learning how to reduce stress and manage hormonal changes better may be a way towards reducing the problem in the long term.
No Richard. I’d like to ask you. If you don’t have a potential solution to put forward, just say so.
I see, David Evans. We are playing a game in which you are seeking an excuse to bully me and I am supposed to duck and dive until you catch me out and give me a kick up something. while feeling righteous. A very well known strategy. Well, sorry, I’m not playing.
Children’s behaviour is a reflection of that of adults. If we want to stop children bullying other children we need to stop parents and teachers bullying them, while attacking the prejudices of their parents that they are reflecting.
Incidentally, I’m very puzzled by the language used in “If I saw a transgender person, I’d kill them.” Teenagers don’t talk like that!
Kids may use words like tranny freak and indeed do but the sentiment is the same.
The point out moving onto others is valid however a Welsh survey showed that along side mental heath and travellers that trans people are most discriminated against.
Perhaps starting where the hate is greatest is not a bad idea
Children’s behaviour is a reflection of that of adults.
No it isn’t. Children’s behaviour is simply the raw, natural state of human behaviour. They are, therefore, selfish, mean, spiteful and nasty, and will be so regardless of the adults around them (and indeed will be so in the absence of any adults).
They need to be taught how they ought to behave, in says that do not come naturally, ie, to be considerate, polite, fair, and just.
Following flippant comments earlier, I’ll now try to talk more sense. I didn’t think it helpful when people got described as “dinosaurs”. However, I think that whilst Lord Greaves (and Malcolm Todd) have made comments which are well balanced, Richard Dean has not. It is entirely fair to say that “it’s the behaviour — the bullying — that’s wrong, not the specific “identity” (in the political sense) of the victim that makes it so.” But that doesn’t mean that one should completely ignore the “identity” which a bully may choose to “pick on”. As Greaves in fact put it, “it always helps that particular kinds of bullying are clearly seen to be wrong” – and yes, that means picking on e.g. poor people, or fat people, or black people, or transgender people, or any other kind of people who bullies wrongly think they can pick on.
Richard Dean said “it seems to me that focussing on stopping bullying of one demographic is surely unlikely to have any overall effect. Won’t it just transfer the problem to another demographic?” That is unduly dismissive. A generation ago, black people were widely considered to be fair game for bullying. We have largely stamped that out by paying specific attention to race prejudice, as distinct from general prejudice, and making it clear that it isn’t on. To do the same for transgender prejudice seems a perfectly valid campaign to undertake.
Yes, David Allen. Your argument proves my point. Black people maybe bullied less, though you might change your mind if you lived in some areas of London. Muslims, Romanians, and migrants generally have taken their place as targets of prejudice. The problem is that the causes of prejudice have not been addressed, only the targets have changed.
So Richard Dean, do you think we just shouldn’t have bothered with race relations legislation? That we might as well have kept the “NO BLACKS” signs in landlords’ windows?
Your comment that “the causes of prejudice have not been addressed” is a counsel of despair. The causes of prejudice are basically that fact that human nature is imperfect and we are not all plaster saints. Outside of Utopia there will always be reasons why one human being will resent another. That does not justify bullying and it does not justify ignoring or downplaying bullying.
Well, David Allen, what you are saying is that we should indeed give up trying – “the human race is imperfect”, there will “always” be resentment. I am saying the exact opposite to that.
We should try, so let’s try to find out the real cause of the problem, which is pretty unlikely to be the targets, and much more likely to be due to stress. Let’s find that and try to solve it.
OK then Richard, you portray your dismissal of this article as a positive thing, and you say you want to solve the “real” cause of the problem. Let’s hear you be positive and propose a solution, then.
@David Allen. It would be nice if you could avoid claiming that I’ve done something that I haven’t. You may want to look at my previous response to David Evans, and think about whether you’re using the same strategy as him.
You’re right Richard, I should have checked above. You’ve already ducked the same issue before!
Ok, so we’ve had an interesting interlude in which a couple of David’s appear to have tried something akin to bullying behaviour to get their opinions across. Hopefully it was unintentional, and hopefully educational. Now shall we get back to the discussion itself?
Martin Land made what seems to me a sensible comment. Dav responded with a comment which I thoroughly disagree with. My experience is that being considerate, nice, helpful, and just comes naturally to children if you avoid stressing them out and allow them to discover value in others. But I will leave someone else to argue that one.
Dav: “Children’s behaviour is simply the raw, natural state of human behaviour. ”
This is a philosophical assumption, not a scientific fact.
“They are, therefore, selfish, mean, spiteful and nasty”
Perhaps this is true of the children you know, or of the child you were. It is not true of all children or even of most children.
Richard, it wasn’t educational, you didn’t learn.
That would be a rather familiar pattern you’re following there, David Allen.
Why on earth cannot people just support the article, and accept the fact that is highlighting a specific form of Hate Crime without trying to water the issue down by bring in other matters?
Personally when I see this happen, and sadly it is all too often within LDV, I see the critics as part of the problem and not the cure.
Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Liberal Democrat English Party Diversity Champion
Ethnic Minority Liberal Democrat (EMLD) – Vice Chair