Nick Clegg has just issued the following statement:
Over the past four days we have been working flat out to deliver an agreement that can provide stable government that can last.
“The talks with the Conservatives have been very constructive and I am grateful to David Cameron and his team for the effort they have put in. But so far we have been unable to agree a comprehensive partnership agreement for a full Parliament.
“We need a government that lasts which is why we believe, in the light of the state of talks with the Conservative Party, the only responsible thing to do is to open discussions with the Labour Party to secure a stable partnership agreement.
“We will of course continue our discussions with the Conservative Party to see if we can find a way to a full agreement.
“Gordon Brown has taken a difficult personal decision in the national interest.
“And I think without prejudice to the talks that will now happen between Labour and the Liberal Democrats, Gordon Brown’s decision is an important element which could help ensure a smooth transition to the stable government that everyone deserves.”
Discuss …
Follow @libdemvoice.org on Bluesky
Like us on Facebook
Subscribe to our feed
Sign-up for our daily email digest
We do have a two-tier policing system but it is not what our homegrown racists think it is.
Lib Dems are reviewing policy and strategy says PoliticsHome
From Norman settlement to a civic square
Church Green video
Iain Donaldson
Simon Robinson
Chloe
expats
91 Comments
Dangerous. Very dangerous. Brown’s resignation has thrown Clegg a lifeline, but he has to remember he’s on pretty thin ice anyway, and doesn’t want to test it too far…as long as he makes it clear that he’s not throwing toys out of the pram and is still open to discussions with the Tories, then he’ll get away with it. Brown’s resignation has bought hmi time anyway – the papers will be full of nothing else for the next 24 hours.
I sincerely hope Nick Clegg et al can sort something out soon, because there is a very big danger that we will end up being seen as finicky divas who pretend to hold serious talks and then drop the Conservatives as soon as Labour wave a carrot in front of our noses.
On the other hand if he can pull off a stable government, then IMHO Nick Clegg should be Prime Minister…
Please Please get on and join the conservatives you cant take us into a pact with labour and have another term of an un elected leader 10 million people voted for David Cameron give him a chance and put party politics behind you stop point scoring and lets get on with sorting out the county while we are still floating as if this uncertainty goes on we will be in even deeper trouble than greece
‘The Conservatives are making a “final offer” to the Lib Dems, promising a referendum on bringing in a different voting system – known as AV – shadow chancellor George Osborne says. Labour had a referendum on AV in the their election manifesto.’ (BBC)
Enough?
“Party with most seats has first right to seek to govern”. That’s what Nick Clegg said on the 7th May. So why is he talking to the Labour Part?
I say take them up on the offer, we’d look ridiculously curlish to reject this after holding productive talks and seemingly working well with the Conservatives so far.
@Bexleyite – because what the Labour Party think has a big impact on whether the Conservatives’ attempt at government succeeds or not?
Two hours ago Nick Clegg was the decent, honest, modern politician whom so many thought they should perhaps have voted for. He is now exposed as a devious, venal and egregious schemer. He may think that this is just the cut-and-thrust of real non-partisan politics. It isn’t. The country is in crisis, economic and political. It will never forgive Clegg or the liberal democrats. Whatever happens now they are done for. Sobeit. Unfit liars.
Please Please get on and join the conservatives you cant take us into a pact with labour and have another term of an un elected leader 10 million people voted for David Cameron give him a chance and put party politics behind you stop point scoring and lets get on with sorting out the county while we are still floating as if this uncertainty goes on we will be in even deeper trouble than greece
1. Punctutation is helpful.
2. We don’t elect leaders – David Cameron by your definition will be an “unelected” leader.
3. No, we will not be in deeper trouble than Greece.
Having just heard Hague speak, I have to say we would not be a serious, sensible party if we rejected this.
‘outraged’ Tory-bots alert! ;o)
I agree with Wendy, you cannot trust Labour, they promised things in the past and never delivered. We cannot be seen propping up a failed regime, our credibility for the future will be shot to pieces.
Join David C to stop Gordon and his chums.
I agree with Andrea.
From the sounds of recent statements we are very close to agreeing a programme with the Conservatives and the latest offer, although not ideal regarding AV, is the icing on the cake.
Can the country take much more procrastination?
Liberal Democrats should, at this point, be prepared to form a coalition with whichever party can give the best deal, especially on the issue of political and electoral reform. Emotional responses, anti-Tory or anti-Labour, are utterly beside the point. If the Conservatives make the best offer — or, given that they have the plurality, at least an equal offer — then a Conservative coalition should be on. If the best the Conservatives can do is weak tea, and Labour has a better, credible offer, then go with Labour. It’s really a simple problem, to be decided on the merits, and I expect Nick Clegg et al. to make the decision on the merits.
William Hague’s statement makes us look self serving. We need to be very careful here!!!!!!!!!!!!! We need a VERY good reason not to do a deal with the Tories in light of what Nick Clegg said about dealing with the party with most votes and seats first. The parliamentary party and activists need to grow up and realise we didn’t win this election and whatever the result would have been under a different voting system its only a quirk of the current system that has put us in this position.
Old Conservatives and New Labour absolutely cacking themselves over PR! It’s plainly obvious that this is what they are afraid of most of all more than anything else.
lib dems are playing a dangerous game, throwing it all in for PR, it is the good of the country which comes first. it would be disastrous to go in with Labour and a load of self serving smaller parties just for this. The electorate is likely to be more sympathetic to the line Nick Clegg took initially….the interest of the country comes before party ideology.
Have you guys got a ‘Plan B’ for the time when you are in bed with Brown’s Nasty Socialists and he tells Boy Cloggy that the nation’s finances are, in fact, even worse than Brown has let on?
I voted LimDem at the election, even though I live in a very safe Conservative seat, on the bais that I wanted the LibDems to get a decent overall total of votes. In the next election, probably later this year, I won’t be repeating that. I suspect that the idea that the LibDem total votes in England entitles you to more seats need to take a knocking, AV or not. It seems to me that the party’s leaders have demonstrated child-like behaviour, and are actually frit at the thought of having to be responsible for real government and difficult decisions.
How can anyone with any gumption call for stable government and then propose allying with a party which is going to spend the next four months in a bitter leadership contest?
I don’t expect to get any better than AV from either party, or get it through the Commons even with a pledge from the leadership of a coalition partner.
By talking to the Tories first Clegg has given the Tories the first right to seek to govern. If the Tories won’t compromise enough then that’s their fault.
The interests of this country require that Cameron and Gove and their billionaire North American puppet-masters be kept out of No 10.
@ Bexleyite
Because ‘first’ right does not mean ‘exclusive’ right. They were given first right.
@ Wendy
People vote for a party and its policies (even if they mistakenly think otherwise). This is why there is still such mistrust in people that the Conservatives have actually changed… because the majority of their members still hold the same old values, and because the policies, when examined, also seem to hold up the same old values, regardless of how well David Cameron presents himself as someone who cares passionately about everything and everyone. Although no doubt the press will have a field day banging on about this completely irrelevant point.
I think we all need to realise the significance of both Gordon Browns resignation and the start of talks with the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives offer of holsing of referendum on the Alternative vote. Gordon Brown was seen as being the major obstacle to any coalition or supply and confidence agreement betwen the parties, that has now been addressed and the start of formal talks which will get under way tonight will start the process to see whether there is any possibility of a coalition between the two parties. The second point is that the Conservatives offer of the Alternative vote is the maximum that they would be prepared to go to, as many voices in the party are saying. Now the Liberal Democrats are meant to be committed to real electoral reform which should rule out accepting what is in my view a derisory offer, especially considering that the Labour party are already committed to holding a referendum on the AV system and therefore meaning that there is greater room for negotiation. So I would say that all voices saying that we must agree a pact with the Conservatives, we might be shown in a bad light for starting talks with Labour and going into coalition with them is a little bit reactionary and considering that the Liberal Democrats want to move towards a proportional system then this is what you are going to get.
if clegg rejects the tories offer and goes off with labour then i will not vote liberal democrate again
This is all developing so quickly that I’m not sure that ANYONE really knows what the endgame is. It’s like playing who wants to be a millionnaire. As long as Nick and the negotiaiting team realises that we’re not going to get EVERYTHING we want on this occasion and take the pot that’s offered at the right time, then we might just stand a chance. Otherwise we might find ourselves going home with nowt.
For the next 4 months, look at what we’re going to have to put up with if there’s a lib/lab agreement!
Following the Tory offer of a referendum on AV, we will lose all credibility if we walk away from them now.
It’s a tough decision, but what we need to do is form a coalition with Cameron.
If we put another unelected PM in No.10, we can all look forward to 2 or 3 terms of Tory govt following the inevitable collapse of the coalition when hard decisions are needed on spending cuts.
“It will never forgive Clegg or the liberal democrats. Whatever happens now they are done for. Sobeit. Unfit liars.”
Funnily enough, they speak very highly of you.
Well, I’m a Conservative who tactically voted Lib Dem at the election to get out a Labour MP – and I was happy to do so because I felt that that the Lib Dems were strong on civil liberties and making a clean break with Labour’s statist past. I wanted you to replace Labour as the second party so that their authoritarian nightmare could never be unleashed on the UK again. But propping up the zombie Brown and his unreconstructed Party will cost you my vote forever, and many more like it…
i think it would be disastrous for lib dems to go with labour….after all the rhetoric about democracy I think Nick Cleggs position would be untenable, and a coalition with every party in parliament (that would be what it would have to be) would be unstable and show the lib dems as self serving and unelectable. I like Nick Clegg I think he has decency and has sounded clear and reasonable in the TV debates, what a shame if the liberal democrats choose not to follow their leaders advice….who would really vote for them when a labour led coalition fails (which it surely will sooner rather than later)….?
I voted for the lib dems in Hull, just as i have done so in the past but, if they prop up a Labour government that has taken the country to the brink of financial disaster just as it did during the seventies, then i will never vote for the lib dems ever again.
We suposedly live in a democracy which means we should be giving the party that aquired the most votes, a chance to take us out of this mess we are in.
If we do not, then you can bet that the financial markets will not like what they see and the consequences of that, do not bear thinking about.
I also predict in those given circumstances that, there would be another general election within a year to eighteen months, by which time our budget deficit and our economy would be in an even greater mess than what it is currently.
Pardon the intrusion. I’m a spectator from the US. Let me just add that from my perspective, the UK has endured more troubles over more time with a very resilient system that produces one of the best countries in the world. As mucky as things may seem at the moment, I must say that I am jealous. To me, a system that gives 1/8th of the seats to 1/3rd of the votes is actually drastically more democratic than the American one! Plus, your parliamentary system is far less dominated by cult of personality politics than ours, though you appear to be losing that a bit. Did people really vote for or against Clegg, Cameron, or Brown? Are the PMs in their constituencies just proxies?
Speaking as someone with no skin in the game, I think your party is in a predicament with Brown resigning. Seems like Labour is offering the PR vote and Brown’s scalp. Everything people who wanted change but didn’t want a Tory government wanted. I don’t know a lot about how UK voters react to things, but I might be tempted to just tell Cameron to suck it and get ready for another election after he’s done a bunch of things people don’t like.
In the US politics, we say when your enemy is drowning, don’t throw him a life preserver, throw him an anchor.
Great , with a rainbow coalition Scotland and Wales will be showered with money while the English population wil be shafted with public spending cuts. Go and explain that to all your voters in the South West. You’ll be lucky to get 20 seats in the next election which ever election system is used. Remeber the LibDems got 24% of the vote – don’t overplay your hand.
I think that the Lib Dems are right to talk with Labour. But I think that it would be a serious mistake to enter into a coalition with them for a promise of reform. A ‘rainbow’ coalition would be unstable and relying on votes from MPs from the devolved partner nations could cause trouble both within such a coalition and in the perception of the wider public. And could they actually get legislation through on such a tight majority if not all Labour MPs support a change from FPTP?
LOVED the Austin Geke post.Maybe soon well see a video of Nick and Gordon as Puppets with the UNITE union head honcho as the puppet master dancing to the sound of the movie Greece 2 .
Clearly, the senior party figures are trying to maximise their gains from any deal with either party. There is nothing wrong with that. Tthere is one side of this party that more predisposed to the Labour agenda and one side that is more predisposed to the Conservative one. Rock and a hard place. Tax and spend, gerrymander the electorate with public sector jobs and benefits, or slash and burn, cut taxes, and see if the private sector comes up with some investment?
What a pickle. I don’t know what to make of all this.
We should remember that all three parties LOST the election. No party has a majority.
Clearly most of the people posting here have never negotiated anything in their lives. I understand that Conservative and Labour supporters are upset at what is going on. After all they both claim divine right to rule!
So we have offers for a referendum or legislation on a Labour proposal for the voting system and that is supposed to be a deal clinching offer? We do not know what else is being offered how could we?
I am more than happy with the performance of the Lib Dem team so far.
Whatever the deal and whoever it’s with we will lose voters, supporters and members: that is an inevitable consequence of the electoral hand we were dealt on Thursday. Our opponents will portray us as devious, venal liars (to quote one of the posts above). But I have every confidence that Nick and the rest of the negotiating team are trying to arrive at a deal that in the long term interest of the country. Their judgement as to what this is will obviously be influenced by the fact of their ideology, but I would suggest that one element of that ideology would be that as Liberal Democrats they will put the stability and well-being of the country before party political advantage. Perhaps we will eventually emerge from these difficult times strengthened and with greater moral authority, but it’s going to be tough.
I usually vote Tory, but was impressed with the LibDems during much of this election. I could see a Convervative/LibDem government working well – potentially delivering the best of both parties. It seems to me that the LibDems have had more concessions from the Tories than you could reasonably hope for with just 50-odd seats. If the LibDems were to turn that down they would risk having an unstable government, go back on Clegg’s pledge. If they did this, no conceivable reason, I would lose any trust in them for a long time in the future. My second AV vote under the next several elections would not go your way.
Reading the comments it does seem to be a mess. I am a life long libdem who voted to keep the Conservatives out. Others voted Libdem to keep Labour out. PR is the only way to stop this and we’ll only get PR with Labour Party behind it. The Conservatives will never go for it. They may string us along with referendum proposals that will come to nothing and our chance will be GONE!!!!
As a LibDem supporter, I am dismayed at the idea of the party negotiating with the Labour party at this time. By having secret talks which were then discovered, we have appeared duplicitous and hypocritical. A coalition with the Conservatives (largest number of seats and votes) for a fixed period of say 2 years, would be the best outcome for everybody, including the Labour party.
The country would get a stable government that could start to address the very serious economic problems that we face. (exacerbated by the profligate actions of Gordon Brown and co). The coalition could begin to restore some of our civil liberties, free up businesses from excessive regulation, and generally reverse some of the wasteful and intrusive policies of the last 10 years.
The Conservatives would get DC as PM and some of their polcies through.
The Lib Dems could show the electorate that they were capable of governing, that their influence on extreme conservative policy was benign, and that coalition politics can work.
The Labour party would have time to regroup, choose a new leader at the right time and benefit from not being the ones to impose financial pain on the nation.
I voted tactically for the Lib Dems, to keep out Labour. Now whilst I don’t agree with all your policies. I really did belive that the Lib Dems were different.
Tonight Nick Clegg, who I respected before has gone from hero to zero, I am disgusted with him and your party, the lack of integrity and decorrum being shown is utterly contemptable. The only party showing any integrity has been the conservative party you all hate. Labour has spent days shamelessly trying anything to destablise and cling onto power.
Mr Cleggs announcement to hold talks with the party who had the largest mandate, whilst secretly holding talks with the Labour party who were totally rejected by the electorate, shows up your leader to be nothing more than another hollow politician who underneath all the spin is putting themselves and party political interest above the national interest.
I am absolutely certain that a fairer voting system is needed to give Lib Dems more seats, however in the UK popular vote Lib Dems came third, you put PR out their as a manifesto commitement and 77% of the UK didn’t vote for you.
And now the Lib Dems are holding the country hostage, are prostituting themselevss around to try and get the things for which the country voted them into third place, it is shameful.
Is this what PR represents, the party that finishes third after losing seats gets to choose who the next governemnt is?
In England the conservative got almost 50% of the vote, they hold a 59 seat majority over all other parties, so tell me what right you think you have to join a coalition of losers with scottish/welsh nationailsts to govern England???
You will NEVER be forgiven, it is scandalous, you are trying to steal the election to line your own idelogical pockets when the country rejected it.
I hope so much that you have a very serious look at this. I Can assure you this will NEVER be accepted.
Get into bed with labour, with another unelected prime minister, nationalists etc against the will of the electorate and you sign your own death warrant.
You are now negotiating with unelected and twice disgraced Peter Mandelson.
New Politics my arse.
National Interest my arse.
Good luck at the next election, for many you have just lost all credibility. You will be severely punished, this IS NOT democracy or the democratic will of the people.
You got a referendum (let the people decide – not politicians), you had the chance to shape the country in power with ministers, with a PM who was in the prime minister debates and who got the largest share of the votes in the UK, and a huge majority in England, who’m you said you would give first go to, (and who have treated you as equals and with respect), whilst secretly doing the opposite.
You had the ball and you just dropped it.
The Tories have now offered the one thing that I personally had as a red line. If it comes with a guarantee that they won’t just betray us and cut and run in the next 6 months (e.g. Fixed Term Parliaments as the first bill in a new parliament) as a guarantee) then I think it might be (and damn this is hard to say) “in the best interest of the nation” for us to go with the tories. (I think I need a shower now).
Much as I want PR, I feel uncomfortable introducing such a system without a referendum, as Labour is now offering us. I also feel that a rainbow coalition will fall apart quickly and from the ashes will rise an all powerful tory majority and our country will be screwed for generations. If we join with the tories now we’ll at least be able to mitigate the worst of the damage.
Much as I dislike the thought of allying with the tories, I’m not sure I’m any more sanguine about allying with the labour party, at least under the current parliamentary conditions.
Kudos to Nick and his team… proud of them and terrified of the pitfalls they are dancing around at the same time.
I found it really strange agreeing with Michael Portillo a few weeks ago on the politics show when he said of his old party “If they smell power, they’ll offer PR”. Well, he was right.
Well, the first time you the (Lib Dems) are tested – you fail outrageusly and disgustingly.
Nick Clegg wouldn’t know what the “National Interest” is if it bit him the nose!
The english, the only country in the Union without a parliament/assembly voted Tory in both the popular vote and in seats. Any loser stitch up between the labour party and the lib dems will be fought by the english in a way not seen before.
I have never been on a march, but I and millions of other english people will besiege Westminster until we get justice.
I thought Clegg was an honourable man and that really was interested in democracy – but no. The snivelling little s**t just wants power – just like Brown!
Unbelievable
The voters of england will not forget his deceit and subterfuge and we will have revenge.
“The english, the only country in the Union without a parliament/assembly voted Tory in both the popular vote and in seats. Any loser stitch up between the labour party and the lib dems will be fought by the english in a way not seen before”.
Charlie you are not wrong, I am honestly feeling that Iraq war anger again, out on the streets. This is an outrage
I am a lifelong Tory who voted Labour to keep the Lib Dems out. If Labour enters a coalition with the Tories I will have no option but to vote (tactically) for the Official Monster Raving Loony William Hill Party.
You’re beginning to look like a single-issue pressure group rather than a serious political party with a range of policies.
The Tories created Colonisation. Coloniasation what does that equal???? Immigrants?
Are new Tory supporters so deluded that they think the most powerful party-The Conservtives who created ‘Rule Britannia’ would not want to go to war?
ALL the Tory party wanted to go to war with the Lib Dems.
NONE of the Tories didn’t want to go to war.
David Cameron writes:
“Last week I met an unemployed lesbian soldier’s wife from South Wales who voted SNP to keep UKIP out. She told me that the owls are not what they seem.”
If the Lib Dems form a coualition with the leader of the Labour Party (Peter Mandelson) I will tactically vote for whoever I have to to keep them out of power. Reading the news comments tonight there are thousands like me. You may get PR, how would you feel with ten percent of the popular vote?
@ rantersparadise
In 1900 at the height of COLONIALISM we had a Liberal government…..Colonisation is something entirely different.
I’ve been musing on what could be achieved without an agreement on full PR. I want democracy. I want elections to be about the issues rather than about trying to second guess the other voters in your constituency.
What I don’t want is false promises. A referendum on PR would too easily be turned into a “no” vote by the Tories, as their friends in the media would rally against PR just as they rallied against Nick.
So. What about a step towards democracy:
– Serious spending limits and limits on party donations. i.e. < 20% of national average wage per person per year.
– Sorting out the media / business raison d'etre. Companies gaining many of the rights of an individual should be able to exist for positive reasons, not purely self serving ones. We should not as a society be bent to the vested interests of large corporates damaging our high streets and our democracy through abusive media ownership and lobbying. How can we have any genuine election or discussion about policy as a nation (e.g. a referendum), while vested interests run riot!
– And a move to AV for all elections.
– A Faithful Ministers Act: Ministers must do their job, not 5 executive directorships. It's outrageous that so many members of the Blair & Bush governments are raking it from those they looked after while in government.
It might not be PR, but it would be progress.
What this country deserves is a fair fight to govern, based on
Thomas Arne set Rule Britannia to music based on a poem by James Thomson. History bisn’t ckear what their politics were.
“If the Lib Dems form a coualition with the leader of the Labour Party (Peter Mandelson) I will tactically vote for whoever I have to to keep them out of power. Reading the news comments tonight there are thousands like me.”
Do you really mean you’d vote Labour to keep the Lib Dems out, in retaliation for the Lib Dems supporting Labour? This situation is really bringing out the irrational in people, isn’t it?
It makes me want to threaten that I’ll vote tactically to keep out whoever other people are voting for tactically to keep the Lib Dems out – if only I could work out who that was …
@ Neale
With respect are using seriously suggesting we change the electoral system without a referendum? That’s not very democratic.
Talking to both larger parties is perfectly appropriate, and it would be a disservice to the country to pursue one set of negotiations over many days to a fruitless conclusion and only then to open discussions with the other potential partner. The all-important “markets” are happily preoccupied elsewhere, but the sooner we have a lasting government of whichever complexion, the better. So by all means, talk to both: it’s the only right thing to do until a deal is struck.
Mr Brown’s resignation saddens me. Each party’s leadership is its own business, it’s something to do with “democracy”. I’m deeply disappointed that Liberal Democrat leaders are reported to have made his removal a precondition for any arrangement. If Mr Brown were so “electorally toxic” as his attackers claim, his principal challenger wouldn’t be stuck with a mere 36% of the vote and looking for allies in a year of economic crisis presided over by a Labour government.
Who to ally with is likewise for Liberal Democrats to decide, and I don’t envy any party at this juncture. I just hope that if it’s to be Cameron-Clegg, Liberal Democrats stand firm on their stated commitment to social justice. This is no time for any government to be further penalising the least advantaged for a crisis not of their making.
@ Bob
So are you saying that Colonisation and Slavery is ingerently Liberal? Or it just was a case that back in the days, the government that was elected had to deal with what they got?
You guys invented the capitalism free market of the slave trade-a human trade.
THAT is not inherently progressive.
Nothing about your party has changed your mind, in fact when Thatcher came into power you became Neo Conservatives.
Nothing about you cares about human beings unless they look like you and if not, you can exploit them and drain their power.
By your intelligence, I’m guessing you think your bros in the US-Bush, Rumsfeld et a-were Liberals?
But like I said, you guys are selfish scum that will cut everything but then outsource it so only a minority of your mates can get more money and get richer.
@ rantersparadise
“ALL the Tory party wanted to go to war with the Lib Dems.
NONE of the Tories didn’t want to go to war.”
Nope, meant ALL the Tory party wanted to go to war like most of the Labour Party. NONE of the Tories didn’t want to go to war.
@Charlie Chutney
You may have noticed that England did not vote in any one way.
The electoral maths may have resulted in many more Conservative seats in England, but that’s a problem of the electoral system, nothing to do with relative spending levels. Exclude the massive economic distortion caused by the presence of London and the levels are much closer – the cost benefits of urbanisation?
In fact you are actually making an argument against a Conservative government on the grounds that they do not and are therefore not capable of representing the whole nation.
Ranters paradise you prize fool,
I voted in the Birmigham Yardley consticuency, not that that is any of your business you fowl mouthed vitriolic stalanist stooge.
Grabbing power and spining is all you are intersted in, democracy? will of the people, who gives a sh*t.
I was not refering to ideological differences, you may hate the cons thats your perogative, but this is not democratic, it is an outrage, and If Mr Cleggs makes this bed after reneging on all his shallow promises, not only will he have to lie in it, there will be a massive voter reaction.
10 Million people will not sit back and let Mandelson try and steal our votes by offering Clegg deducements that the voters themselves rejected.
Clegg can do what he wants – he has sunk big time this evening – another hollow and deceptive politician putting himself above national interest – I will be up for any direct action against such an undemocratic coalition of losers. In England it has no Mandate whatsoever. And I will be active in any groups that stand up to undemocratic coalition.
I have no problem with majority labour government – i don’t agree with it, but if that is the will of the people, so be it. I have no problem changing the voting system to make it faier to Lib Dems.
But if this rainbow coalition of losers trys to foist upon us another unelected prime minister, and trie to ram home the idelogical prefererences of the nations third party – I can guarantee I will not sit idly by and watch our democracy being stolen by personal profitteers.
They will not be allowed to quitely and peaceably get away with trying to steal the election and change our electoral system without public consent.
This is not Zimbabwe and their is much anger this evening at Cleggs shameless politics.
Errr… who was our last “elected” prime minister???
It’s a long time back since a single party got more than 50% of the vote.
@ rantersparadise
I’m a liberal. Thats why I can’t stand your moronic ranting. I was making a point that your comments were based on ignorance nothing more.
Dear Mr Clegg
I appreciate you must be busy but I would be grateful if you could please take the time to read this.
I am a floating voter who voted for your party at this last election. I must be honest and say my principle motivation was to see Labour unseated. I am not wealthy. I work in the National Health Service and have been heartily sick of the tricks they have played with regard to my profession and tired of their undemocratic behaviour.
I appreciate you have a ideological closeness to Labour and I assume you must be under some pressure to make a deal with them. I do not know if you have read the hundreds of comments on the BBC and Sky websites but the general level of disgust at the thought of you keeping Labout in power is one I share. A deal with Labour would leave millions of people feeling you have played politics with their lives and their votes. If, as I have read tonight, the Tories have offered a referendum on AV you should test the popularity of your policies and allow the people to decide if this is a system they would want. What is undeniable is that the people in the majority rejected Gordon Brown and Labour. If you keep them in power their is such a feeling that our democratic rights are being usurped that regardless of the system very many embittered people would never vote for you or your party again. I beg of you, if you have any feeling for democracy do not keep this government in power. Stable government is an excuse used by dictators, please do not make it yours.
We should not join forces with Labour. They are worn out, discredited and do not understand the meaning of the words “liberty” or “liberal”. A coaltion or other arrangement with them and others could not last and the country needs the fact and the prospect of stability in government. We cannot be distracted by political instability from dealing with the horrendous, cavernous pit of debt left by the Blair/Brown governments.
Moreover they lost the election. Gordon Brown’s resignation does not change that or the exhaustion and bankruptcy of ideas of his colleagues. Given the pitiful mess we are in, how dare they try to say they have ANY claim to govern right now. I don’t know the circumstances of the “secret” discussions with Labour. If they were secret to the conservative negotiating team, I would be surprised, and disappointed. If they were taken by surprise it will not be the best start to a governing relationship.
We should back or join a Conservative led government.
I have spent my life fighting Tories but at least some of them understand the concept of personal liberty and constraints on the power of the state. I can’t understand how on earth they let the Labour Party get away with their dismal record of the last 13 years; but now, at this time, it is clearly the right thing to do to go into government with them. Moreover, they have now moved on PR, even if it is only a referendum and for AV.
Guys, Igore the Tories converging on this site to ‘fear-monger’.
Please remember that the Labour Voter’s tactical votes helped many Lib-Dem MPs into power, and that without their votes, Lib-Dem’s number of seats won would have been abysmal.
A Lib-Con pact will loose us progressive votes
Oranjepan
Is that the London in ENGLAND you are talking about?
Your comment about the one way that england didn’t vote tory? The system that we had when we voted was first past the post. If you want to change it – put it to the elctorate – its called democracy.
Oh, you did didn’t you? – and only 24% of voters voted for it.
I know you don’t like the answer -but is the one that the voters in England voted for.
I never thought I would say this but it appears that the English need to go it alone. An English parliament is the only fair way of giving the english (the biggest country, the biggest GDP, the smallest spend per capita) – a fair deal!
Mark my words you pinko power hungry lefties – there will be the biggest marches that the country has ever seen. The english will be heard – and you snivelling Judases will be brought to account. This will not be forgotten and you will not have power for long.
Nick Clegg has committed political suicide in England. I never thought that I would agree with John Reid (Labour) but I have just listened to him and I agree with everything that he just said.
A coalition of scots, welsh and Northern Irish ruling England? – NEVER – OR NOT FOR LONG!
We will bring you down. We will bring London to a halt. We will have a parliament now – and you lot will be gone forever.
It’s not just the posters to this thread, just look at the comments on the BBC website. 99% hostile, most outraged. The public don’t like duplicity in the middle of a crisis. The people who have behaved honourably in all this are the Tories, I never thought I would say that of the nasty party. Plenty of others have noticed. I thought Clegg was honourable till today.
The rainbow so called coalition will last six months, if it ever gets set up, with spending cuts postponed while the country goes bust. Then you get a Tory landslide after another election, but it won’t matter because we will be ruled by the IMF… and they are much nastier than the Tories.
But then there won’t be any LibDem MPs to see it.
@Bob
What’s democratic about the current electoral system. AV will not reduce choice. It will just reduce guessing. If there is to be a referendum, then I’d want to see the media informing that debate, not distorting it for their own interests.
AV does not remove any voters choice to only vote for one party if they wish.
Consider a referendum result of 51% don’t want AV, and 49% do. The 49% are not taking anything away from the 51% as they can choose to only express one preference. The 51% are preventing the 49% from being able to transfer their votes.
AV is a no-brainer.
I wanted to post here tonight to say how proud I am of Nick and his negotiating team. Gordon Brown’s resignation doesn’t change the mathmatics, but it has bounced the Conservatives into offering more on electoral reform than they really wanted to. Don’t be distracted by the prospect of electoral reform without a referendum – this would not be democratic – if we want the public to trust politians we can’t change the rules of the game without their agreement.
Please ignore all the Labour and Conservative supporters who have visited this site recently, for a long term lurker they have made for some interesting reading but they obviously aren’t speaking in the Liberal Democrats best interests 🙂
I seem to remember that Mr Clegg said that the party with the most seats has the first right to govern and I respected his honesty. Not now, what a hypocrite he is showing himself to be. The Tories won the majority of seats and the electorate gave their decision on whom they wanted to be the next government. Labour have replied by getting Brown to stand down in a move that can only be described as of the utmost hypocrisy. What is Clegg thinking of in even considering an alliance with a party that has had 13 years to bring in electoral reform and done nothing; is dominated by unelected manipulators like Mandelson who , along with the rest of the Labour , would sell their souls to hang on to power undemocratically.
This country needs change – that is what makes the democratic process so effective and it is now time for change.
Nick Clegg needs to seize the day with the Conservatives and give us the change we voted for and are entitled to.
If not, I’m leaving!
Oranjpan, I agree with comment. Let the nasty Tories rant. Like their leader, they tried to cloth themselves in Wolves’ clothing, but now they cant get their way, they have started to show their true colours. Hold the morale high ground and dont respond to tribalists.
Guys! Wake up and smell the roses!
This is your best chance to form a government for the last hundred years.
Go with the Conservatives and form a strong government for a full term, strut your stuff and you will get more seats next time.
People universally voted against Labour because they have messed the country up and it needs fixing, I can’t believe people don’t remember them telling us to rush out and spend, and deliberately pushing the deficit high, as if that was going to make a difference in six months, no-one is that stupid.
If you prop up the Labour minority this time, the nationalists will rape English finances in favour of their own protectionism, that will mess up the deficit reduction, and prevent decisive action. The majority will not last long and by-elections mean put us back at an election in no time. The Liberals will be seen to have failed and the Conservatives will return with a strong majority.
Don’t believe any fatuous electoral reform offers from Labour, they are just desperate, and the voting populous don’t know or care what the fuss is about, but if you stuff up this hung parliament. Could you then try to convince them that more likely hung parliaments in the future would be good?
This hung parliament will only be good if you act like adults, bite the bullet, move forward with the Conservatives and temper their extremes where it is needed. This is your last chance as a centre party, if you can’t make this work, why would I ever vote for you again?
@Fionn.
Over half the electorate said “Not the Tories”, just as last time over half said “Not Blair’s Labour”. That’s the stupid problem about an electoral system that isn’t STV. We don’t get to vote for the choice we’d like to make.
Even if you went on the votes cast, that’s not even accurate as a representation of people’s wishes. People in FPTP vote tactically based on a guess of who might win.
If you want to be able to say “The nation chose the Tories” the it’s simple. Implement STV and you’ll find out. Conservatives must have some deep fear of rejection to not want to win a true ballot and instead to be happy to stick with the FPTP sham!
“Please ignore all the Labour and Conservative supporters who have visited this site recently, for a long term lurker they have made for some interesting reading but they obviously aren’t speaking in the Liberal Democrats best interests”
They are pretty funny, though. I particularly liked the one about Cameron disguising himself in wolf’s clothing…
@ Absolutely Disgusted
Oh, come on.
Stalinist? Really? No comment.
@ Bob
Ignorant? Really?
Okay lets go with both your ‘facts’ and please link them to me.
From my research, I don’t and have never seen a fair society run by a Right Wing government but I’ll give you this, you guys will always win because some how you make out someone who cares about society like the wrst thing possible.
For your interest? I believe in a decentralised state and more focus on business but get this, I believe in a genuine free market, SME’s, LE’s etc-make it free to get a fair system.
Tories still the worst thing to happen.
The party that won the most votes offers a coalition with the party that won the fewest votes. Does anyone apart from the Liberal Democrats feel that PR is the top priority of the needs of British people. “Well do different is just the same grubby self-interest that we have come to expect of politicians”
Nick Clegg you are just as bad as Mandelson, Brown et al.
I hope the Tories pull the rug on you, and you are left with Labour, who will surely shaft you and you are left with nothing, which is truly what you deserve.
I will also make it my mission to personally go out and tout for every Tory vote I can – something I have never done in my life.
If nothing else I would say that Lib Dem Voice has at last got the publicity it deserves! Look at all these lovely Tories & Labour-ites giving their time on here to discuss Liberalism! Hurrah for negotiating teams and all that sail in them. Long may they keep our agenda on the table.
Funny that this eveing I was chatting to a group of people who voted Lib Dem apart from one who voted Tory.
All the LIb Dem voters voiced the opinion that its strange that the mud slinging before the election (Nick Clegg/Nazi Remember) came from the tories and the murdoch empire. Now He is the best thing since sliced bread. Are people blind to the fact the the tories are devious. lying, power grabbers also. You say that Gordon Brown is deperate, Its funny that George Osborne annouced a referendum on the AV system after GB had made his announcement, sounds desperate to me and others!!!
As We have never, ever elected a Prime Minister, Gordon Brown should not be persistanty called un-elected because if he is that will make DC unelected as well!!
I am not a Brown supporter but I feel people are being taken in by the tories and all things that are being said about labour will appear under the tories as well..
I showed the group I was with the results of the survey and the main comment was “Are You sure this survey was not written/answered by the tories?”
So I remind people that this is the Liberal Democrat party and we should not be supporting the tories and the Murdoch empire..
The Tories got 40% of the electoral vote in England. LD+Lab got over 50%. The Rainbow Coalition would represent more English voters than the Tories would. Some of the Little Englander Tory squealing above is absurd.
I’m a lifelong LD voter who voted tactically for LD to keep Labservative out. Unfortunately one wing of the Labservatives is going to form the core of the next government, and I would rather the LD do what they can to moderate the worst of whichever wing that is (shafting the poor and selling the BBC to Murdoch on one hand, juryless trials and arbitrary detention on the other), and support the wing they can moderate the most.
I am a Lib Dem member and I am saying join with the Tories. If only the alternative of a minority goverment dependent on Scottish and Welsh minority parties and with a change in the electoral system not being put to a referendum is so undemocratic if does against everything the part and Nick clegg has said about a change in politics.
He shoud really do the best thing for the country – join with Cameron and give Liberals a change to be minister in a sustainable cabinet and prove they can govern.
And also make a decision in the next 24 hours – we need a solution now.
Nick Clegg has not, in any way contradicted what he said during the elections.
He said he will give the first opportunity to govern to the party with the highest votes. He did. Despite three days of negotiations, the Cons, thinking that they had the upper hand, arrogantly wanted it all without PR. Nick clegg quite rightly, had no option but to look at alternative options. Obviously signalling that they are talking to Labour worked, because the Cons climb down from their high horse; but alas too late to stop Clegg from talking to Labour. Cameron blinked first. Empty barrels make the loudest noises.
We are progressives. No Cons allowed.
AV is not proportional representation. It is an elaborate form of tactical voting, which is now so embedded in voting patterns that AV would make little difference. My guess is that the 4%-10% of voters who continue to vote Labour in our top seats would give one preference only under AV. So what is the point of it?
Don’t think that Liberal Democrats never benefit form FPTP. We did last Thursday, funnily enough, in Norwich South, where we won on 29% of the vote – 2% down on what we got the previous time when we lost! Perhaps that’s why Norwich South hasn’t been trumpeted too much.
STV is a proportional system, AV is not. STV reflects the will of the electorate and has the added advantages of keeping to MP-to-constituency link and taking power away from party machines and giving it to the voters. Sadly, while Tories and Labour continue to win outright majorities under FPTF, they will never enact genuine PR whatever they might promise in times of need. They will always cut and run rather than go through with it.
You have a very odd notion of “tactical voting”. Unless you’re psychic it’s unlikely any advantage will be gained by casting an insincere (i.e. a tactical) vote under AV.
“Whatever the deal and whoever it’s with we will lose voters, supporters and members: that is an inevitable consequence of the electoral hand we were dealt on Thursday. Our opponents will portray us as devious, venal liars.”
True. But transient. Once we are in government, we will be judged purely on how we govern.
Soon, it will be clear who is talking twaddle. Those who say we are hypocrites to consider allying with the Tories? Or those who say we are blithering idiots to consider a Labour coalition? The answer, of course, is yes. Both are talking twaddle. Equally.
Well now, I hate the Tories far more than I dislike Labour, and I would much prefer a viable coalition of the centre-left. But because the important thing is to make a deal work, I am now going to make an anti-Labour-deal point. (And I just wish more people would act likewise!)
The problem is that we have to finalise the deal with Gordon Brown. Then, we shall see a Labour leadership contest. In any such contest, the contestants must strike opposing stances. What to argue about? Inevitably, it must be the terms of the deal that Gordon has just struck. Expect the new Labour leader to be elected on a platform of “modifying” the agreement we thought we had signed!
Quite seriously, I think the best way around this concern is as follows. We demand only two cabinet seats in the LibLab government: Nick as PM and Vince as Chancellor. Labour can have all the rest. Only thus will it not matter too much who Labour chose as leader, and what promises he/she may have made to win!
@Charlie Chutney
I’m glad you accept that large numbers of people voted against the tories in England, umm, about 65% if my maths holds up. It’s hardly much of an endorsement.
Where’s your democracy now?
Is now it seems cons verses others? I hoped that voting libs would bring a stable gov that Nick promissed, backing the party with the most votes. Open politics, But I there were talks behind closed doors with labour,at the same time. Lbs will suffer next ellection.
Joining a headless Labour party cannot possibly be a serious proposition. Combined with a ridiculous collection of parties each of whom will be hanging out for what they can get – just like we appear to have done. The Labour party itself is not of one mind on whether they should hang on in power. Are we REALLY going to dance to Mandelson’s grubby little tune? Let’s get a grip and do what is right for the country and the party.
Oranjepan
Your smug approach will be your undoing. Firstly your maths are crap. 40% voted Tory in England.
The system we had at the last election was First past the post – not PR. If PR was the system then their wouldn’t have been any tactical voting and we would of had a different result. Honest politics is what is needed.
Do you think that the people that voted Limp dem in Cornwall were hoping that Labour would be kept in power?
If you want a PR system lets have a referendum and then you can shut up. After this experience of Clegg’s gerry mandering, mendacity, Your Anti-English Alliance plans will be the last time you have such power. The English will not stand for it and you will pay the price.
I want a Labour Limp Dem Scots nats welsh nats sinn fein anti-english alliance now. Then another election. And then for your despicable bunch consigned to the waste bin of English history to be never seen again.
Public spending per capita – Northern Irish, 9385 – Scotland, 8623 – Wales, 8139 and ENGLAND 7121.
You have opened up a hornet’s nest of English Nationalism that will not go away now.
You reap what you sow.
If some people like lady J think everyone who comes on here are tories trying to put on the frighteners, then they are complete fools, i am a lib dem supporter and i beleive in democracy, unfortunately this disgraceful episode is anything but.
I am old enough to remember the last Coalition during the seventies and it turned out to be a disaster, the problem is you end up to many differences which lead to breakdown and another election becomes inevitable before very long, as did happen with the last coalition.
the only party to come out of this scenario to date with any integrity in my opinion is the consevatives, as much as it pains me to admit it.
I most certainly do not want us to jump in to bed with a party that has, in my opinion brought this country to its knees, the economy,crime figures, the NHS, and many more, they have all suffered immeasurably under labour.
It is perhaps also worth remembering, the last time the country was in such a finacial mess was during the late seventies, under Labour and James Calaghan, during that period we saw the country go almost bankrupt, resulting in us having to call in the IMF to bail us out, i remember those times very well, they were absolutely awful and i would hate for us to go through that situation again, unfortunately i fear the same will happen again if this totaly incompetent and inept Labour government is allowed to rule in any way or form.
I will never forgive the Lib dems ever, if they force our country into such a predicament by forming any alliance with them, we need to put our country first and not ourselves, time is running out fast.
“After this experience of Clegg’s gerry mandering, mendacity, Your Anti-English Alliance plans will be the last time you have such power”
Steady on! Remember you could be talking about a future Libservative Home Secretary here.
If this deal goes through, I daresay the right-wing press will soon be praising Nick Clegg as the greatest statesman since Winston Churchill.