A referendum on the terms of Brexit would be equivalent to expecting a referendum on the terms of Scottish independence. As the Scottish people rejected the offer of independence, then there is no need for a further referendum on the terms of staying in the union. We have already have regular elections to deal with that.
It is impossible to justify the double standard applied relating to the referendum.
It is laughable to suggest the LibDems are not trying to re-run the Brexit vote.
It is an insult to our intelligence to suggest we will not be out of Europe shortly…and you know it!
@Clootie “It is laughable to suggest the LibDems are not trying to re-run the Brexit vote.
It is an insult to our intelligence to suggest we will not be out of Europe shortly…and you know it!”
If anybody was arguing for a “re-run” what would be so wrong about that?
I strongly disagree with the idea of referendums on the EEC/EU, either 42 or 1 year ago (to the extent that I boycotted both votes), but if there is going to be a referendum and if it narrowly goes one way, what is so wrong with a further vote when the final deal has been agreed.
As you claim to be intelligent enough to “know” when we will be out of Europe, when will that be exactly?
I understand the Lib Dems are passionate about Scotland remaining in the U.K. and the U.K. remaining in the E.U. but to argue for a referendum on the final Brexit deal which includes the option to stay, is to all intents and purposes, having a re-run of the initial remain / leave referendum with more choices and a little more clarity; it is disingenious to try and claim otherwise and the LibDems would be better off if they simply stated that is their goal is, to have and win another referendum resulting in the original leave vote being overturned and the U.K. remaining in the E.U. with no further referendum on the subject, ever.
Given that the above is what they want for the E.U. it does look very strange to have a policy in which they would actively block a further Scottish independence referendum, even if the Scottish parliament had a majority to hold one, smacks very much of the you are too stupid to know what is good for you, so we, your betters, must protect you from your ignorance and unrestrained passsions.
My opinion is it is too early for a further Scottish independence referendum but, if they want one they should have one. The government should say up front what their initial negotiating stance would be, and then if the Scottish voted out the whole U.K. should have a vote on the terms of the deal, why? because initially only Scotland will be voting as to whether to leave or not, however a decision to leave will impact on everyone, so the rest of the U.K should also get a vote on the terms of the deal. Key issues such as would Scotland stay in the currency union, what happens to Trident, where would U.K. warships be built, these and other issues can not just be determined by Westminster and Hollyrood if the rest of the U.K. has had no input into any part of the process at all.
Sorry but I don’t understand why we would not let the Scots run an independence vote. It is quite clear that the argument has fundamentally changed as a result of Brexit (though which way is arguable).
I am a member of the English Lib Dems which is a separate organisation to the Scottish Lib Dems but I cannot understand or support their position on this.
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8 Comments
So Lib Dem policy is that there should be a second EU referendum but not a second referendum on Scottish independence?
You want a re-run of the one you lost but not on the one you won?
Somehow ‘Liberal Democrat’ seems a strange name.
Can I suggest ‘Liberal sometimes-Democrat’?
Not at all.
A referendum on the terms of Brexit would be equivalent to expecting a referendum on the terms of Scottish independence. As the Scottish people rejected the offer of independence, then there is no need for a further referendum on the terms of staying in the union. We have already have regular elections to deal with that.
…cringe factor 10 ((((((shudder)))))
I’m not surprised the hall was empty!
Fiona
It is impossible to justify the double standard applied relating to the referendum.
It is laughable to suggest the LibDems are not trying to re-run the Brexit vote.
It is an insult to our intelligence to suggest we will not be out of Europe shortly…and you know it!
No pigs this time, I’m pleased to say.
@Clootie
“It is laughable to suggest the LibDems are not trying to re-run the Brexit vote.
It is an insult to our intelligence to suggest we will not be out of Europe shortly…and you know it!”
If anybody was arguing for a “re-run” what would be so wrong about that?
I strongly disagree with the idea of referendums on the EEC/EU, either 42 or 1 year ago (to the extent that I boycotted both votes), but if there is going to be a referendum and if it narrowly goes one way, what is so wrong with a further vote when the final deal has been agreed.
As you claim to be intelligent enough to “know” when we will be out of Europe, when will that be exactly?
I understand the Lib Dems are passionate about Scotland remaining in the U.K. and the U.K. remaining in the E.U. but to argue for a referendum on the final Brexit deal which includes the option to stay, is to all intents and purposes, having a re-run of the initial remain / leave referendum with more choices and a little more clarity; it is disingenious to try and claim otherwise and the LibDems would be better off if they simply stated that is their goal is, to have and win another referendum resulting in the original leave vote being overturned and the U.K. remaining in the E.U. with no further referendum on the subject, ever.
Given that the above is what they want for the E.U. it does look very strange to have a policy in which they would actively block a further Scottish independence referendum, even if the Scottish parliament had a majority to hold one, smacks very much of the you are too stupid to know what is good for you, so we, your betters, must protect you from your ignorance and unrestrained passsions.
My opinion is it is too early for a further Scottish independence referendum but, if they want one they should have one. The government should say up front what their initial negotiating stance would be, and then if the Scottish voted out the whole U.K. should have a vote on the terms of the deal, why? because initially only Scotland will be voting as to whether to leave or not, however a decision to leave will impact on everyone, so the rest of the U.K should also get a vote on the terms of the deal. Key issues such as would Scotland stay in the currency union, what happens to Trident, where would U.K. warships be built, these and other issues can not just be determined by Westminster and Hollyrood if the rest of the U.K. has had no input into any part of the process at all.
Sorry but I don’t understand why we would not let the Scots run an independence vote. It is quite clear that the argument has fundamentally changed as a result of Brexit (though which way is arguable).
I am a member of the English Lib Dems which is a separate organisation to the Scottish Lib Dems but I cannot understand or support their position on this.
Gareth