In just a few hours, a fund launched by Alistair Carmichael’s long-time friend Sheila Ritchie has raised nearly £2000 to help with the defence of the election petition against him.
Earlier this week two judges heard two days of legal arguments. They will now then decide whether the petition proceeds any further. Two days’ worth of a QC’s time really doesn’t come cheap. The fund aims to raise £50,000 to help with those costs.
Sheila says:
Everyone in the Northern Isles knows someone who Alistair has helped, and he has fought so hard for his constituents.
During the election he made a mistake which the SNP has blown out of all proportion. They are using a vague law to try and overturn the election result, even though what he did is not related at all to his hard work on behalf of his constituents.
I’ve known Alistair well for almost exactly 10 years now. Many people in the party know what a decent human being he is and how hard he works. One recent example is sorting out the problems people in his constituency were having while having to wait very long periods for benefits assessments.
He’s spent his lifetime campaigning for human rights, and particularly against the death penalty. Here he describes his visit to death row inmate Troy Davis:
In 2009 I travelled to the US state of Georgia with Amnesty International to meet Troy Davis, on death row- I’m sure you all remember this case.
It was a humbling and sobering visit – to see a man who had lost his life- before he had even been executed- having spent so many years on death row.
He told me that in the eighteen years he had lived with the death sentence he had only once stood on grass – when he had been removed from his cell block to go to hospital.
In fact when I left the prison where Troy was being held, I took a few blades of grass from the garden in the car park. I still have them today – a reminder of the brutality of a system that brutally killed a man I was proud to have met.
Despite years of campaigning, Troy Davis was executed in 2011. He died, still pleading innocence and urging his family and others to ‘continue to fight this fight’
In recent months, it took his knowledge of parliamentary procedure to secure a debate that ended up with the Tories postponing their flawed plans to bring in English Votes for English Laws without proper parliamentary scrutiny.
In Government and out, he has done so much to help his local communities and individuals there with the challenges they face.
On Monday, as the case against him was getting underway, he said he’d been touched with all the good wishes he’d received from local people:
Thank you to everyone for their texts, e-mails, cards and messages of support in relation to the election court case in Edinburgh today. It is all really appreciated not just by me but by Kate and the boys as well. The number of people who have stopped us on the street or in the supermarket or elsewhere over the past few weeks to wish us well has been phenomenal and is quite touching.
Alistair made a mistake. We all do from time to time. That does not obliterate a long record of compassionate and diligent public service.
If you are able to help Alistair fund his case against what is essentially a politically motivated witch hunt, you can do so here.
This post is likely to attract some tiresome cybernattery, so comments will be pre-moderated.
* Caron Lindsay is Editor of Liberal Democrat Voice and blogs at Caron's Musings
29 Comments
The Times reported that the court was asked to strike out the petition. Any news?
The judges will give their judgement at “a date to be fixed”
Check the boorish threats to report the petition for misrepresentation. Why? Because it’s not an SNP front but being led by two Labour supporters and one Green to only one SNP.
Fiona Macinnes – on record as being pro-SNP. Firmly YES.
Tim Morrison aka Orkney Vole – ditto to the point of holding fellow Orcadians in contempt.
Fiona Grahame – pro-YES Green who presumably voted SNP in May because there was no Green candidate. Also was trounced at council elections getting just 9% of the vote: how could West Mainland vote against her with a supporter like Morrison? (see above link) The seat went to a LibDem inclined member with more tan 50%.
I can’t remember the fourth petitioner but iirc they too are on record on Radio Orkney as being pro-SNP.
Add to that John Mitchell QC founded Lawyers for YES, represents the SNP in court, and iirc stood for election (yet he’s not doing it pro bono but charging full whack. Laywers, eh?) and that not a single NO-inclined individual of any relevance pushed PvC in media-land whilst every single SNP elected representative and supporter with a Twitter account did, the suggestion that this is anything other than an SNP front is risible. It’s the lying about the petitioners’ political allegiances which blows me away, though.
Thank you.
On Alec – “Tim Morrison aka Orkney Vole – ditto to the point of holding fellow Orcadians in contempt.”
I appreciate the right to apply as I am named above.
I am the ‘Orkney Vole’. I am a ‘Yes’ Supporter but I dispute what is said about me above; I do not hold people in contempt for their political views. The link shows that all I was saying was that the West Mainland of Orkney swung the election for Mr. Carmichael. It is no surprise to anyone that the majority of our farming community is traditionally Liberal Democrat. What came as a shock to most people, myself included, was how close the fight came. To say that someone is Liberal Democrat is not to hold them in contempt, any more to say that they are a Labour member or a Green..
A number of people have commented on the defamatory nature of Ms Ritchie’s comments on her campaign site. I have to repeat, as I have said elsewhere, that in no sense is our campaign an SNP front. I am a member of the SNP but have received no party support nor sought any for this campaign. My colleagues who signed the petition are not party members. I have not sought or canvassed the opinion of the party leadership at national level. We have no financial backing from them at all.
I note the nature of Alec’s comments and regret that he continues to attack our legal representatives and ourselves as individuals rather than actually on commenting on the case itself. The nature of Mr. Carmichael’s behaviour is not in dispute. He himself has said that this would be a resigning issue if he was still in the Cabinet. Both he and his special advisor declined their severance pay.
The major argument against what we have done is that it would ‘open the flood gates’ to all sorts of challenges. I would argue that this is what we want – that we want to stop politicians of any party making false statements about either themselves or their opponents to the electorate. That will challenge the culture of dishonesty and privilege that makes ‘politics’ a dirty word.
It is up to the courts to decide what to do, whether Mr. Carmichael’s conduct is in breach of electoral law, we look forward to the results with interest.
@Tim Morrison: You’ve raised a great deal of money – £88k if I remember rightly. I wonder if you are in a position to say how much comes from a) people who live in Orkney and Shetland and b) supporters of the SNP and/or the wider Yes movement.
Caron Lindsay 10th Sep ’15 – 1:47pm ……………….@Tim Morrison: You’ve raised a great deal of money – £88k if I remember rightly. I wonder if you are in a position to say how much comes from a) people who live in Orkney and Shetland and b) supporters of the SNP and/or the wider Yes movement……….
Careful, The thread itself asks for donations to help Alistair….
@Caron Lindsay, thank you for having accepted my previous post. I cannot answer your questions but I wish I could The list of donors who have not made contributions is on the Indidgogo site, it allows us national not regional breakdowns of the data. Even this does not help much – how should someone from Orkney who now lives in Thailand be counted?
We also do not ask people which party they support, indeed as this is not a party campaign it is not relevant – nor is how they voted in the Referendum. All it is about is Mr. Carmichael’s conduct in how he was dishonest (his words) about the leak and the impact that has made on the polity.
The strength of feeling is shown in the now £89,000 that we have raised. Over £24,000 in the first 24 hours.
Most of the contributions have been very small – 5,195 have contributed so far.
One final point, I am not doubting that Mr. Carmichael has done much good for many people. His work against the death penalty is admirable but not relevant here. I am so sorry that his recent conduct (be it considered political or personal and that is now for the Court to decide) has necessitated this hideous process. We would all much rather be doing something else.
I’m one of the four petitioners who took exception to being lied to by our MP. If you can’t trust your MP who can you trust? Let us change the cynical view that all MPs lie (they don’t), and encourage the ones who do to stop and behave better. There has been speculation about my politics – I voted Yes in the referendum and I am a Labour Party supporter. This petition is not about changing our MP, it is about aspiring to higher standards of behaviour in politics as well as life.
Tim, I’d be able to take your chagrin more seriously if you were able to show tolerance towards others’ views. Reciprocity, like. And, no, it does not count if you show it when you’re on the backfoot. Honest, good people make mistakes; it’s track records of courtesy and respect for pluralism which allows others to accept it.
The QC whom the crowdfunders are paying handsomely is a long-established SNP/YES supporter. He helped found Lawyers for YES. You cannot dispute this.
You are nurturing a notion that the PvC petitioners are one Green and two or three (the welter of widely dispersed commenters on the Go Fund page are unsure about which).
You are an out-and-out SNP and YES supporter. You say so on your blog. When you made those comments about West Mainland voters, you were not doing so as a compliment… you also were speculating wildly about relative votes elsewhere in Orkney and in Shetland.
Macinnes has YESnp stuff plastered over her Twitter profile.
There was no Green candidate at the GE, so unless Grahame didn’t vote she almost certainly voted for Skene.
Even if Welling with her lesser profile is a NO/Labour (which I am certain is not the case), this would be far from the impression you’re allowing.
IIRC you *all* have identified as being SNP on Radio Orkney. It doesn’t matter if some or all of you are not members. Relatively few people are members of Parties. It’s whom they support to the point of pseudo-religiosity which counts.
According to the petition documents lodged, you/Macinnes/Welling live in Stromness. Grahame lives a few miles away in Sandwick. Did none of you have any contact before the GE? Or are they one of the very few friends of yours – as you said in the link – who didn’t vote SNP?
@Cary: “This petition is not about changing our MP” – but that’s what the effect would be if it were to succeed.
@Tim Morrison: The overwhelming impression I took from social media is that there was quite a campaign amongst SNP people to raise the money – and they weren’t very polite about it either. It would be very interesting to see a breakdown of exactly who your funders are.
@Expats: Is it not ok to crowd fund to defend someone. Do you not think the fight should be fair?
As a Lib Dem Party Member in Scotland the way the Party and those close to the “inner circle ” have handled this is a complete carcrash – the fact Willie Rennie knew Alistair Carmicheal for 20 years or the fact others know him to be a decent man is irrelevant – he was a Minister of State – we should expect High standards – the Party should not have given there support and the Fundraising attempt will only lose more votes – how can we make the SNP Government answerable when we don’t have the guts to put our own House in order
If four people want to challenge him in Court that’s there affair – if they support the SNP again that’s there affair – it doesn’t detract from the facts that the Scottish Secretary leaked an internal memo then denied it was leaked with his authority.
should he resign as an MP – that’s between him and his constituents – the Party should have distanced themselves clearly stating he acted alone – we certainly don’t give public support by trying to raise money to cover his legal fees
This will cost us votes and cost us Seats – we should be focusing on the SNP performance in Govt – Policing – NHS – Education – not wasting time on supporting someone who was clearly in the wrong.
A Young Woman died lying in a Car with her Dead partner beside her for three days – the Policing in Scotland is shambolic – yet we give the SNP an out by getting involved in this nonsense – our job is to hold them to account but we allow them off the hook time and time again.
As for the accusations its Politically Motivated – so what ? The leak was Politically Motivated
I don’t like the SNP – I don’t like the Control Freakery – I don’t like the Bully Boy tacticts of a lot of there Supporters – I don’t like the disgraceful behaviour of some of there elected representatives – I don’t like the statement “Community Justice” as it smacks of Mob Rule BUT the four individuals have the right in Law to challenge what they see is a flawed process in the Election – that right we should defend.
“The defamatory nature of Ms Ritchie’s comments”… what? You consider it a slight on your reputation to be linked to the SNP? A Party which you can be shown to fully supportive of, just as those defending you on Twitter and Facebook have YES/45/SNP logos on their profiles.
This immediately confrontational tone is incompatible with the ‘new politics’ you claim to want. Instead it’s an oppressiveness and disproportion which seeks to scare people into silence through the more-than implied use of legal censure.
There’s a group of genuine pro bono media lawyers who started after George Galloway attempt to sue people for critical comments on Twitter. They’re doing good work.
==> I voted Yes in the referendum and I am a Labour Party supporter
That doesn’t address how you voted in the GE, or even if you’re a *member*. Not that it matters on a personal level: what matters is how you present yourself. And saying you’re Labour when you were against it’s formal position on the ref – and potentially voted against its candidate in May – which is dissembling.
If you wanted to vote YES & support socialist principles, fine. Go for the SSP. Don’t retreat behind Labour4Indy which, when last I checked, was under investigation by the Electoral Commission.
Tim Morrison and Cary Welling sound like the sort of people we would be pleased and proud to have as Liberal Democrat members.
@Caron Lindsay – the information is on the Indiegogo website – all you have to do is go and look. We have certainly had campaign supporters from across the spectrum. What Mr. Carmichael did caused widespread outrage and that has been reflected in what has been donated.
The effect of the petition is to declare the election null and void. If Mr. Carmichael had resigned at the beginning and stood again, most people think he would have been re-elected. He chose not to do so. Now he could be debarred from public life. I would have expected the Liberal Democrats to keep Orkney and Shetland under a new candidate.
@Alec =re: the defamatory nature of Ms. Ritchie’s comments. I do not mind being called SNP. I am not part of a conspiracy to drive the opposition out of Scotland, which is what she claims. This is not a witch-hunt, there is no debate about Mr. Carmichael’s guilt. Even he accepts that. The debate is about whether his conduct is in breach of electoral law. This is exactly the same argument as took place in 2010 when your party used ‘this vague electoral law’ to unseat Phil Woollas.
Caron Lindsay 10th Sep ’15 – 5:20pm ……………….@Expats: Is it not ok to crowd fund to defend someone. Do you not think the fight should be fair?…………….
I have no problem with that. However, I assume you are asking the anti-Alistair funders, “Are you local?” in order to show that it is not his disgruntled constituents driving this action….
Asking non constituents to contribute to his defence highlights that it is not his constituents who support him….
Hence my ‘Careful’ remark
@Caron Lindsay I note all your questions about who lives where and their legitimacy in supporting The People versus Carmichael fund.
I noticed that you gave £50.00 to the Sheila Ritchie fund and that she works in Aberdeen. Both of you are Liberal Democrats clearly and neither are resident in either Orkney or Shetland. How is it appropriate for you as party members and non-constituents to contribute to Mr. Carmichael’s fund but not for our supporters to help us?
Tim Morrison and Cary Welling.
Tim, drop the repetition of “defamatory”. That’s your personal opinion, and one based on an astonishingly thin-skinned response to criticism in contrast to your willingness to address others in the most disdainful tones. Likewise, your calling on others to halt “hideous process” reveals a lot about your bigsy attitude.
*You* started this, and now are trying to extricate yourself whilst laying culpability on others. It was enjoyable until now, but I think even you realize talking to high-flying QCs and being interviewed by the national media has gone to your head.
If you cannot cope with opposition on a blog, how are you going to cope under Roddy Dunlop’s sharp tongue? I wouldn’t want to be against him in a rugby scrum!
So what is it? Are you defending the delicate sensibilities of the SNP? A political party which has been in power for eight years? Setting aside this sophistry, that you even are thinking of taking action against Ritchie shows how strong your understanding of liberal democracy. Look around you, make political points with rude comments about other Parties all the time. Everyone who didn’t vote YESnp were called Tories: you yourself have said that Labour is loathed.
Even if you got a lawyer to issue legal writs, I would find half a dozen to defend including reporting that lawyer to professional standards for misuse of their legal position.
==> If Mr. Carmichael had resigned at the beginning and stood again, most people think he would have been re-elected.
I don’t believe for an instant that’s what you wanted or thought could happen. What you forget is that your comments and hostile tone are on record in print and broadcast. In this thread presenting yourself as an ordinary Orkney voter – who’d being cruely robbed of an SNP MP – without revealing the fairly significant matter of your being the led petitioner, then ceased commentng when identified.
cont…
cont…
It is well kent that you all four petitioners voted YES and/or two definitely voted SNP (the possibility of the other two not having done so is vanishingly unlikely). There is so much more to being a Labour supporter than paying £3 after voting SNP to vote Corbyn.
Three of you live within a few streets of each other in a large village, and the other in the next hamlet. The chances or your having come together by chance are zero.
So, no, no I do not take seriously your repositioning yourself with the superficially generous admission above or the earlier one that Carmichael had done good work on X. Woolas spoke about his opponent. Carmichael did not speak about Skene. You have tried to play games with Parliament… it now is the time to take responsibility for your actions.
==> I noticed that you gave £50.00 to the Sheila Ritchie fund and that she works in Aberdeen. Both of you are Liberal Democrats clearly and neither are resident in either Orkney or Shetland. How is it appropriate for you as party members and non-constituents to contribute to Mr. Carmichael’s fund but not for our supporters to help us?
Are you keeping tabs on people? There were donors who identified themselves being pursued across Twitter.
No-one is saying that you shouldn’t. *You* on the other hand are engaging in a totalitarian attempt to shut down opposition, including the dismal boasts here and on your blog that your fundraiser is bigger than theirs.
Your campaign is removing the barriers to ordinary members of the public getting justice? Take that up with the sort of QC who preaches the nobility of activism then charges full whack for a cause he supports.
I am not a member of any political party and haven’t voted in recent elections due to total apathy.
I voted yes in the referendum for the same reason, however the outcome I hoped for was no but with the smallest possible margin so real change was possible for a politically engaged electorate.
I contributed to the People versus Carmichael because I’m utterly fed up of dishonest career politicians that cannot be held to account.
I want to see integrity from my MP, regardless if Carmichael wins or losses the subsequent re-vote, democracy will be the winner.
@Alec – of course we did not come on each other by chance. Of course, we have been politically active in different ways. It seems strange that that should be considered in some way conspiratorial here. That we know each other and are friends is not surprising in a small island community. It certainly does not mean that there is anything nefarious about what we are doing- but we are not the issue here, nor is our character.
This court case is about Alistair Carmichael and no one else. It is about his actions during the General Election campaign. We are voters in his constituency and are so entitled by law to raise the petition. The only qualification necessary we have is that we are his constituents. I do not see how challenging an MP who as Secretary of State for Scotland has acknowledged telling political lies to hurt his opponents is totalitarian – on the contrary, it is about democratic values and trying to create a real accountability. If your party was either Liberal or Democratic, it would support what we are doing and allow us, the voters in Orkney and Shetland, to decide. The real reason behind so much of what is happening is lack of confidence that you will keep the seat. I think you will as you managed with Huhne’s. Or would have done.
My reason for commenting on Ms Ritchie and Ms Lindsay is that we have been frequently charged with not being constituency based or being politically motivated – I note simply that this campaign is being designed and promoted by Liberal Democrat activists who live outside the constituency.
As to keeping tabs, it is clear that you have bothered to find out our addresses to see where we all live.
@Alec – – (continued) on one point on which you have been quite cross with me in other places is the presenting of the petition to the Court of Session in person. We had so little time to draft the documentation that the only way we could get it to Edinburgh was to carry it – and it had to be the original copies that we had signed – its a hangover from the 19th century legislation, but thats the way it was – no electronic copies or people signing on our behalf. And yes, we made the most of the opportunity, we would have been daft not to.
“I don’t believe for an instant that’s what you wanted or thought could happen. What you forget is that your comments and hostile tone are on record in print and broadcast. In this thread presenting yourself as an ordinary Orkney voter – who’d being cruely robbed of an SNP MP – without revealing the fairly significant matter of your being the led petitioner, then ceased commentng when identified.”
The other point you make is about my forgetting me being on record, I am clearly not ashamed of my positions on those sites because I was commenting there under my own name as I am here – hence the reason you are able to see when I make mistakes or change my mind. I certainly did not want Mr. Carmichael elected here but it did not cross my mind that he would not be.
The objection I have to your comments is not that they are hurtful, it is that they are untrue. We are not being underhand or dishonest. We are not part of a secret conspiracy apart from the fact that most of us who are petitioners have known each other for some time. Our politics are public record. I support the SNP and I voted ‘yes’.
And finally, the thing that you don’t seem to get is that I really am an ordinary voter – I am not a politician in any sense apart from that I contribute to a political party and since the end of last year have been authoring a blog. I have not even been to an SNP meeting ever, indeed I have been to more LibDem ones.
I am not paid by anyone to do this stuff and I certainly neither asked permission or was instructed by anyone to do this. We are ordinary people who are interested in politics and have had enough of these kinds of untruths.
So, John, you’re someone else who voted YES and, presumably, SNP telling us this has nothing to do with either.
As for dishonest career politicians, tell us about the EU legal advice [1] or certainty of a CU with Sterling or a second oil boom from Salmond who’s been an MP or MSP (often at the same time).
If you, Tim Morrison, and others didn’t realize now what would happen if Sturgeon and the Ambassador were asked to deny on oath the contents of the memo, it’s beginning to sink in.
[1] And don’t say this has been found to be disproven. It hasn’t. Salmond either pre-selected the investigators or changed the rules so he could investigate himself, and even then was said to have given muddled/confused/misleading replies.
*who’s been an MP or MSP (often at the same time).
for half his adult life and a civil servant for the rest.
http://theorkneyvole.com/2015/06/08/how-orkney-and-shetland-people-deal-with-bullies-the-vole-reflects-on-carmichaelmustgo/
Putting aside the whole condescending portrayal of Orkney as some sort of Potemkin Village, this jumped out at me:
==> Our local councillors do not stand for any political party but are all independents.
On the topic of political ferryloupers, they may mostly stand as independents but you know as well as I do that this is irrelevant. When last I checked the convener was a well kent SNP activist.
Tim, I wonder that even though the judges are making avizandum, you are prejudicing it by taking to comment.
Carmichael did this. Carmichael did that. There’s a court case ongoing about this and endless other blogs to discuss it. This is about others’ right to make their case and your totalitarian attempt to shut down discussion.
==> of course we did not come on each other by chance. Of course, we have been politically active in different ways.
In other words, a small closely knit group whose views are well kent in a highly polarized discussion. I consider it conspiratorial because you are happy to nurture the notion that it’s two or three Labour and one Green. We know Grahame cannot have voted Green at the GE because there was no Green candidate. Anyone can support Labour or Monster Raving Loony if they want, but by describing themselves as such in open discussion about political motivations it becomes pertinent to ask how far this goes.
Being a Labour supporter is supporting Labour policy and voting Labour in most people’s books.
cont…
cont…
==> on one point on which you have been quite cross with me in other places is the presenting of the petition to the Court of Session in person.
No, I said there was an element of showboating. There may have been an arcane rule which required you to do so, but making a media scrum out of it was your choice. And, above, I said you are astonishingly thin-skinned in contrast to your ease in inferring bad faith in others.
We are subjected to unending verification whilst you give yourself the benefit of the doubt.
==> The other point you make is about my forgetting me being on record,
There was going to come a point when you’re no longer speaking to ferryloupers so-to-speak of domestic Orkney politics.
==> I certainly did not want Mr. Carmichael elected here but it did not cross my mind that he would not be.
You said:
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/07/alex-salmond-explains-how-a-second-scottish-independence-referendum-will-happen/#comment-2159280216
==> “AC survived this time by tactical voting”
That is, he wouldn’t survive the next time, and this time was because of bad faith use of an absolute right to vote for whomever voters choose. You distance yourself semantically from any bad press for the SNP by saying you’re not SNP, so presumably when you vote SNP it’s tactical. Why is it okay for you but not others (even if you could show that’s why they did)?