From the BBC:
Former Labour MP Eric Illsley has admitted he fraudulently claimed more than £14,000 in parliamentary expenses.
He pleaded guilty to three false accounting charges over claims for council tax, maintenance, repairs and utility bills for his second home.
Illsley, appearing at Southwark Crown Court, previously denied all charges.
He was re-elected as Labour MP for Barnsley Central in May, but had the party whip withdrawn after being charged and now sits as an independent.
The hearing has been adjourned for four weeks, for a pre-sentence report. If Illsley receives a prison sentence of less than a year he may remain an MP, but if he is sentenced for longer, he will be disqualified from being an MP under the Representation of the People Act 1981.
The House of Commons’ ultimate power of discipline over one of its own members is expulsion, which would create a vacancy in the Member’s constituency and so trigger a by-election. This has only happened three times in the last century.
The procedure for expulsion is that a motion is moved, generally by the Leader of the House, “that … be expelled from this House”. It is customary, depending on the circumstances, that a Member be ordered to attend to offer an explanation. However, if it is apparent that no possible excuse could be given, then the order to attend is not made. Should the Member be already in prison for the offence, then the prison governor may be ordered to bring the Member before the House. [UK Parliament website]
Former MP David Chaytor was sentenced to 18 months in prison last week, but Eric Illsley is the first sitting MP to answer charges relating to his expenses.
Speculation is now growing about a by-election in Barnsley Central, where Labour held the seat with a majority of 11,093 in 2010. The Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives were closely matched, with 17.3% of the vote each. Liberal Democrat Chris Wiggin took second place by six votes.
Chris Wiggin, who has not said whether he would stand for reselection in the seat, tweeted this morning:
My focus is Oldham this week. Let’s get Elwyn elected in Oldham East and Saddleworth for the Lib Dems, then we’ll see about Barnsley Central.
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35 Comments
All these Labour MP’s being arrested. The git in me says “About time”, I wonder if they’ll continue to call Lib Dems liars with a straight face?
@Rich
To be fair to Labour, they removed the whip from Eric Illsley, months ago, and he was sitting as an Independent.
It is right, that ALL these rotten MP’s are weeded out, no matter which party they are affiliated with, There should be no place in politics for people like this.
People in glass houses, should not throw stones however.
The audit office has still refused to sign off expenses relating to 2009/10 as there are still Millions of pounds of MP’s expenses, who have failed to produce the information that has been asked for. Don’t forget there are Liberal Democrat MP’s expenses still under investigation. The party can be left very Red faced indeed, if it takes the moral high ground, and is later found to have 1 of the most senior members caught up in the this
@Rich
Of course lying about paying rent to your partner is OK and shouldn’t be mentioned then Rich ? I’m not equating the two just pointing out that they are not linked.
I think you’ll find that the expenses issues hit every party. I hope he follows his dihonourable friend to prison but please don’t tar all Labout MP’s with the same brush. There are more hounorable MP’s of all parties then there are liars and cheats, even Tories!
I would like to see a whole load more MP’s in court including Mr Duck Island from Totnes and his friend who needed some essential Moat clearance work.
As to whether some Lib Dems should be called liars, well Laws has admitted lying, everyone who broke their pledge has, in my opinion lied, to their electorate. Given the chance I’d tell them so to their face. Personally I think if the cap fits wear it, those Labour MP’s and Ex MP’s who broke the law should face the consequences, those who lie to the electorate need to do likewise.
Labour is, of course, full of decent people but there is something about The Labour Movement that turns Good people into crooks, cynics & thugs. On balance, its probably time for Labour to die.
Ironically, what David Laws did allegedly broke the rules [in my view] but wasn’t what I would personally judge as ‘wrong’ because if I were staying with my partner, I would expect to pay her rent and not just live for free. So slightly different to fraud.
It looks as if the London L/D By-Election Buses will be on the road again soon and this time to Barnsley Central : but first let`s get Elwyn Watkins elected to serve as the new honourable MP on behalf of the residents of Oldham East and Saddleworth?
It is the constituents and all decent families who have been betrayed and held hostage to fortune, by the `MPs Expenses’ deceits in Bury North and Barnsley Central.
@Henry
Ironically, what David Laws did allegedly broke the rules [in my view] but wasn’t what I would personally judge as ‘wrong’ because if I were staying with my partner, I would expect to pay her rent and not just live for free. So slightly different to fraud.
But the thing is, you can not claim “Expenses” to pay a partner rent.
The same as someone on Benefits, Can not claim Housing benefit to pay rent to a Partner.
You can not have double standards in politics, although many Mp’s will try
I hope that a by-election is triggered. Whether he serves a custodial sentence or not, he is not fit to remain as an MP and should do the decent thing and resign. When will the right to recall bill get passed because if this man stays on as an MP whilst serving jail time (less than 12 months) then this is not fair on the Barnsley constituents and they should have the right to oust him.
However, if there is a by-election then this may be problematic for the Lib Dems. Currently in 2nd, but with no chance of victory (11,000 Labour majority), I expect the Tories to pass the Lib Dems. What, however, is more concerning is the BNP position. BNP finished 4th in May, just 3,000 votes behind the Lib Dems in 2nd. If the Lib Dem vote does fall by as much as the national polls are saying, and if we assume that the safeness of the seat will lead to a low turnout, the BNP could well finish above the Lib Dems and that would be very alarming. It may not be a seat that any party apart from Labour will think about winning, but it could still be an interesting result as to who finishes in what position.
Oh no let me clarify, I fully accept there are duff MP’s in all parties and honourable MP’s in all (This weekend I had the pleasure of meeting a Labour MP that’s always struck me as honest). I also applaud the parliamentary Lavour party for dropping Illsley as early as they did, if they’d done the same with Phil Woolas, Labour would look very good right now.
Personally I hope there is a by-election triggered and Illsley stands as independent. The people of Barnsley should have the choice to re-elect him even if the local Labour party stands its own candidate.
The people who gave Eric Illsley an 11,000 majority gave him an incentive to behave corruptly – is it any surprise that corruption exists when FPTP creates so many safe seats?
I’d like to ask whether the prospective by-elections (in Bury, Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Livingston…) will still be operated under FPTP, or should they be delayed until after the referendum on AV?
The Guardian is already saying Barnsley Central would be a shoo-in for Labour, but this is exactly the type of old politics the public rejected at the GE.
@Rich
I hope he goes to prison. This would disqualify him from standing as well prevent him from campaigning in person.
Good to see expenses cheats dealt with, although there are a lot of others who appear to have got away with it.
Will David Laws ever be punished for his …err….’wrong claims’ for his housing allowance ?
Over £40,000 claimed contrary to the rules and apparently with clear knowledge it was against the rules.
Even if Laws did not act in a legally fraudulent way it was both hypocritical and immoral for a man who seemed to ache for the chance to wield the axe on welfare benefits and public services.
Rich@
Some irony in your first comment, although unintended I suspect.
1. Some Labour MP’s committing fraud does not wipe the slate clean of Clegg’s and Lib Dem leadership deceit to the electorate.
2. Are you one of the much boasted of ‘non tribal’ Lib Dems. Again more irony if you are.
3. David Laws, what are your views on what he did ?
Matt@
Which other Lib Dems are still under investigation, other than Laws ?
Thanks, didn’t realise.
It’s wrong for Lib Dems like Rich to make purely anti Labour remarks about expenses.
What about the Lib Dem Assembly Member in Wales who has been convicted of assaulting several paramedics after a night out ? Does that reflect badly on all Lib Dems ?
“Labour is, of course, full of decent people but there is something about The Labour Movement that turns Good people into crooks, cynics & thugs. On balance, its probably time for Labour to die.”
What a bizarre comment ! Are you a Lib Dem ?
#activatethewiggin
Or would he be so gracious as to suggest for the candidacy the likes of Evan Harris, Julia Goldsworthy or Susan Kramer?
“I’d like to ask whether the prospective by-elections (in Bury, Barnsley, Scunthorpe, Livingston…) will still be operated under FPTP”
There are no prospective by-elections in Bury, Scunthorpe and Livingston, because Chaytor, Morley and Devine didn’t stand in 2010. Maybe you should be thankful!
It’s great to see people not letting go of things like the David Laws situation. The arrogance of our political class in thinking that if they send a couple of people to jail it somehow wipes the slate clean is just another sign that they will never ‘get it’.
You can not claim “Expenses” to pay a partner rent.
@poppies mum
“Which other Lib Dems are still under investigation, other than Laws ?”
I am not sure, which “specific” MP’s are still under any investigation, certainly not on the scale of the Laws Investigation anyway.
However on the 15th December, the telegraph reported
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/8203707/MPs-expenses-auditor-refuses-to-sign-off-Commons-accounts-over-unsubstatiated-claims.html
“MPs’ failure to provide evidence to support nearly £14 million in claims has led the nation’s official auditor to refuse to sign off the accounts of the House of Commons”
And also Evidence could not be provided for a further £1.8 million of claims because the MPs concerned were under investigation by the police.
Chaytor, Moorley and Divines, expenses came nowhere near £1.8 Million, So who does the rest of this money lie with I wonder?
That’s why I was suggesting that those in Glass houses should not throw bricks, As we already know that not all Liberal Democrats are whiter than white, and there could be many more revelations yet to come.
Either way, there is still a heck of a lot of expenses, still unaccounted for, and MP’s need to start providing the evidence that has been asked for.
@Norfolk Boy
I thought you could, but they had to be declared as your partner?
Page 16 of the Green Book 2009 Edition
Rules on claiming Rent and Mortgage
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-finance-office/greenbook0907.pdf
Mortgage and rental arrangements PAAE must not be used to meet the costs of renting a property
from yourself; a partner or family member (including a spouse or civil partner); a close business associate; or an organisation or company in which you or a family member have an interest (other
than as an ordinary investor)
Rules could not be any clearer really.
Wasn’t there a ‘he could have claimed more’ defence? Was that if they were jointly buying?
some people seem to get away with theft lightly, at the end of the day even David Cameron paid a gardener and claimed that on his expenses, which in my opinion is a fraudulent claim. the fact he had second thoughts and paid the bill himself after the fact is irrelavent for all we know he was tipped off over a possible release of information regarding MP expenses.
i think its right the guilty Labour MP’s are being sent to prison but i also think there is an element of scapegoating going on where some who have done similar have got off lightly. i think the houses of parliament are full of people who made the most of their expenses from all parties.
as regards my view on David Laws if he was in a relationship with someone and living in that accomodation how could he possibly have an entitlment to claim for expenses to do that? if it was someone in social housing who had a partner living with them and claimed benefits as a single person they would be locked up. why should an MP be any different?
“Rules could not be any clearer really. “Are you sure?What does ‘partner’ mean in these rules- business partner? why not say ‘someone you are in a relationship with’
The issue is not about what is cheaper for the public purse, The issue is, what is, and what is not, permitted in the rules
We Place a member of parliament into a position of trust, and we expect them to act within the rules.
If MP’s are prepared to breech 1 set of rules, how many other sets of rules are they prepared to bend?
The public, have a strict set of rules and guideline that they have to abide by. when claiming welfare benefits, If they fraudulently claim money, they can face prosecution, along with having their benefits suspended for periods of time.
Many cases have been highlighted in the press, all adding fuel to the fire, and vilifying all those on welfare as scroungers, Osborne, has used the term on several occasions.
Incidentally, the maximum that can be claimed for rent or mortgage interest payments is the same £1250 a month.
So it would have made no difference to what he could have claimed.. IF he was on the partners mortgage papers as a joint borrower then he would have been able to claim up to 50% on the mortgage interest payments. up to a maximum of £1250.
As far as I am aware, The houses was owned by David Laws, long term partner James Lundie, and it was to Mr Lundie, that he paid that he claimed expenses to be the rent.too,
I think the rules are quite clear. MR Laws has already admitted him to being his long term partner of 10 years.
And if you looked a few lines down, you would see it also says
a close business associate; or an organisation or company in which you or a family member have an interest (other
than as an ordinary investor)
So I think the term Business Partner falls into those categorise.
David Laws, done wrong and admitted he did wrong, just for some extraordinary Reason, they are holding back and not making a ruling in this, but i am sure we will not let then
unsurprisingly, some people still haven’t got their heads around what Mr Laws did. Whether it’s wilful ignorance, tribal blindness or just obtuseness, I don’t know.
£40,000.
He should be going to jail.
Quick procedural question: IIRC, the timing of a by-election is by convention decided by the previous holder’s party. Since Ed Milibrother has booted the unfortunate member out of the PLP, who would pick the date?
But you can claim expenses to pay a mortgage here. How much do people really care about whether it was on paper as rent or mortgage?
@Andrew Suffield
“But you can claim expenses to pay a mortgage here. How much do people really care about whether it was on paper as rent or mortgage”
This is not the first time you have posted this defence on the thread.
Do you have some proof or fist hand knowledge that MR Laws was actually named on the mortgage as joint borrower?
I am curious as to why you keep repeating the line on several threads, then offering nothing else to support your claims
@Obtuse Angle
“Quick procedural question: IIRC, the timing of a by-election is by convention decided by the previous holder’s party. Since Ed Milibrother has booted the unfortunate member out of the PLP, who would pick the date?”
The short answer to that is, as demonstrated in Oldham East & Saddleworth, it’s a convention, not a rule, so any party that put up a candidate in the constituency at the general election (and has MPs) could move the writ in the House of Commons.
That is, of course, the second stage. The first stage would be ending Mr. Illsley’s tenure as an MP. This could happen in a number of ways: the court could disqualify him by sentencing him to more than 12 months (and it not being succesfully appealed); he could resign; the House of Commons could expel him for his misconduct; there coule be a general election first….
As I understand it, a local councillor can be disqualified if sentenced to more than 90 days in prison (and it not being succesfully appealed). Why have MPs got a longer period?
Unsurprisingly, some people still haven’t got their heads around what Mr Laws did.
Land Registry documents show that James Lundie {David Laws Partner} bought a flat in Kennington, South-East London, in 1997.
Mr Laws moved in to the flat in 2001 and from April 2004 claimed £700 a month to cover his rent.
The rent rose to £780 in January 2005 and to £920 in February 2006. With rooms in the same area of London currently being rented out for around £600 a month
Parliamentary Standards Commissioner, who has launched an investigation into Mr Laws’s expenses claims, may seek to establish whether he was paying more than the market value for the accommodation.
In 2006 a change in parliamentary rules banned MPs from using their Commons allowances to pay rent to family members or partners.
However, Mr Laws continued claiming his rental costs back from the Commons authorities until June 2007 when Mr Lundie sold the flat for £350,000, making him a profit of £193,000
Mr Lundie then purchased a terrace house a few streets away in a fashionable street, part of the Duchy of Cornwall.
Land Registry documents show that Mr Lundie paid £510,000 for the house and took out a mortgage with Alliance & Leicester.
Mr Laws helped Mr Lundie with the purchase by re mortgaging his constituency house in Chard.
Mr Laws again submitted a rental agreement to the Commons fees office, stating that he was renting a bedroom at the new house for £950 a month.
(Information Source) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1282538/David-Laws-secretive-party-didnt-know-address.html
I would say it is quite clear that from 2004 till 2006, Mr Laws Was claiming higher amount of rent than the market value for that accommodation
From 2006, The rules on claiming rent or mortgage interest payments changed, so you could no longer claim for a property that is owned by a family member or your partner.
from 2006 until June 2007, MR Laws continued to claim rent at @ £920 A month, compared to the Market rate for that accommodation being £600
From 2007 onwards, Mr Laws claimed rent for a new property that was purchased by his Partner Mr Lundie, It is arguable that Mr Laws, re mortgaged his own Constituency home, To help Mr Lundie with the purchase of the new property.
However it would appear as though Mr Laws is not named on the mortgage, so therefore would not have been able to claim mortgage interest payments.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/7871073/MPs-expenses-David-Laws-faces-police-inquiry-over-allowances.html
“A joint panel of Metropolitan Police detectives and senior Crown Prosecution Service officials are to decide whether an external inquiry should be launched.
While coverage of Mr Laws’s claims has so far focused on rent paid to Mr Lundie, it is thought a police inquiry would centre on Mr Laws’s claims for household bills.
The MP’s expenses files showed that in addition to the £950 monthly rent, he consistently claimed round figures for maintenance, telephone and utilities bills.
He regularly claimed £150 a month for utilities and £200 a month for service and maintenance. At the time, MPs could claim expenses under £250 without receipts.
In March 2008, this threshold was lowered to £25. From then on, Mr Laws claimed £37 a month for utility bills and under £25 for service, maintenance and repairs.
I do think the parliamentary standards need to make a ruling on this case asap,
And I will repeat again, Some Liberal Democrat supporters should refrain from throwing mud at Labour when it comes to the expenses scandal, MP’s from all 3 parties where and still are caught up in this
Thanks for that Matt. I’m sure the large majority of people can follow it. I’m sure we all knew that a very cases would be made high profile while many, many others, such as Mr Laws, would receive a much lighter touch. It stinks.