As a Party we have never been fans. Some even suggested (mistakenly in my view) that the concept was so bad that we should boycott the elections in 2012.
The idea that one person (usually a white man) should have such a significant say on such a sensitive area as policing – and often over an area covering several counties – was clearly absurd. It still is.
The Government is already thinking of giving PCCs the control of fire authorities on the time-honoured principle of ‘if it’s not broke, then fix it anyway’.
But yesterday’s speech by Theresa May beggars belief. The Home Secretary has apparently been working with the Justice Secretary to look at the criminal justice system, and will bring forward proposals for PCCs to have a role in youth justice, probation and court services. The exact form of these has yet to be decided, but the Home Secretary argued that there are real efficiencies to be made through joining up and sharing services in these areas.
May also outlined proposals to bring together the two Conservative innovations (they would call them ‘reforms’) of PCCs and free schools with the idea of creating free schools for troubled children, with the objective of diverting youngsters from a life of crime.
In fact this is already happening, with the PCC for Northamptonshire (Conservative, of course) planning to open a 1200 pupil free school later in the year.
So a half-baked idea, which has certainly had its downs as well as questionable ups, is to be vastly expanded to take on roles that should either never have been taken away from local authorities or should have been handed over to them in the first place.
The prospects for councillors, diversity and local government continue under this Government to be chilling. What next will be handed over to PCCs? Ambulances? Social care?
* Chris White is a member of the Liberal Democrat Voice Editorial Team, a Liberal Democrat Councillor from St Albans and Deputy Leader of the LGA Liberal Democrat Group.
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25 Comments
Why don’t we, as a party, just boycott the PCC elections? I personally shall do what I did last time. I shall go to the Polling Station and write on my ballot paper “Bring back Police Authorities? What about the rest of you?
“usually a white man”
And the introduction of Identity politics adds to this discussion how?
Is it less of a problem if concentrated power is centralised on an individual who is a different ethnicity, so in Africa or Asia? Is there a history of it being hugely successful there? Or perhaps when it is a Woman, so I take it the LibDems were happy with Thatcher centralising power… oh, no? Hmmm.
Perhaps we should leave the identity politics out of this and stick to the liberal belief that concentrations of power are risky and should be viewed with suspicion. There is no need to bring other people’s bad methods of analysis in to discussing this. It sounds like there is enough bad thinking on the other side you don’t need to try and even the score.
Rather than boycott the elections why not stand candidates seeking a mandate to abolish the post?
That happened with Mayoral elections. Dorothy Thornhill was elected saying she would try to abolish the position (having nearly defeated the referendum to set one up) Shes no midway through her fourth term of office….
Abolishing the post is not within the power of the post holder. It is a matter for the national government to decide. The most sensible thing to do is to stand candidates with the aim of running the office consistently with our liberal principles.
On the subject of arbitrarily expanding powers of police and crime commissioners is there anything stopping a liberal minded candidate from seeking a mandate to legalise, regulate and licence the sale of cannabis as a crime reduction measure?
Sorry this is ridiculous ! Abolishing elections to parliament makes as much sense because we dislike our appalling electoral system! Chris , not convinced the subject of racial stereotying helps at all , are you saying David Lammy would not get elected as a pcc ?! What is our party s problem with elections for individuals having power ?! The same people opposed to pcc and mayor elected roles, often are the same people who want a republic , with a politicsed , elected president ! And I love that Dorothy Thornhill, an excellent example of how one can embrace change , came to the role wanting to abolish it , is in her 4th term AND the House of Lords , itself unelected ! In America they elect nearly every role , a lot of nonsense is talked about the USA , that big money dominates national politics there , is obvious . But not local politics . A mayor or police commisioner there is an established figure , as is a local sherriff is some communities . And that is the point . Community is not necessarily better served by government by committee . Or are we now so in love with Corbyn that we are to embrace Party Committee soviet style ! Are we complacent about criminal justice ? Do you really think what we have works ?Some of us have been wanting accountability , ages, it is an outrage that there is none !If criminals are sentenced by juries and judges , fine , but judges alone , and magistrates are unnaccountable , and who are the probation services accountable to when deciding to release early ? We are not even scratching the surface with pcc and mayor roles , but both are better than no accountbiility and complacency .Whoever said they have to turn into autocrats , actually many good people stand for these roles.
@Lorenzo; The abolishing comment was more about offering the electorate an option to register dissatisfaction with the concept of police commissioners, obviously you wouldn’t be in a position to abolish the post….. however, I was serious about the cannabis proposal.
Where I live the candidates so far declared are Tory, Labour and UKIP. The present post holder, an ex TV reporter, who was one of two Independents to stand last time, has not yet decided whether to throw his hat in the ring. It’s a rather battered hat after the fiasco of his suspension and eventual reinstatement of our Chief Constable (more information available in my recent LDV article).
None of the ‘new’ candidates has any experience policing. If any of term is elected it will be a steep learning curve. Had there been effective governance in place, I would be slightly less worried. However, under this ‘back of an envelope’ scheme, that effective governance is not in place.
The only difference this time is that at least the turnout may be better as the election takes place at the same time as the local elections. The abysmal turnout last time was down to the Lib Dems coalition partners, who insisted on an Autumn date so as to avoid the local elections.
Cynically, I have to say that, if our party does field candidates, you will be more likely to find Elvis alive and well, living on the moon than a Lib Dem PCC after May! I shall still be spoiling my ballot, even if my local party is foolish enough to field a PCC candidate.
Typo alert! ‘Term’ in line 1 para 2 should read ‘them’
I’m curious: would a PPC candidate be permitted to discharge their responsibilities by convening a “cabinet” of local councillors and police officers as an advisory committee? It seems like a Lib Dem sort-of approach which might address some of the more egregious facets of the office.
I agree though, that it’s an election – and therefore there should be a Lib Dem standing, even if it were on a platform of disobedience. I’d rather have a Lib Dem PPC listening to evidence and their local communities than a Conservative one happily toeing Theresa May’s line.
I believe that a PCC can, if they wish, appoint a Deputy, who does not have to be elected and, I believe, is entitled to remuneration. If the PCC goes ‘under a bus’, I assume that the Deputy, if there is one, would take over until another election could be arranged. I don’t think that this has occurred yet; but some of you may know otherwise.
Once elected, the PCC can employ officials to deliver their ‘programme’; but, realistically, it’s the Chief Constable, as ever, who is responsible for delivering policing in a given area. The whole scheme is fundamentally flawed. It needs scrapping. Vote for abolition!
Kent has an independent PCC who was previously on the police authority. She has had some negative publicity, not being a politician.
I understand from a former MP that the MPs tried to stop the PCC scheme, but were only able to delay it.
Theresa May has reportedly had doubts about it, although she ‘knows her own mind”.
Giving new powers to the PCCs after the May 2016 elections might be undemocratic; the voters should know what they are electing.
Alex , well said , nobody above dealt with any of the points I raised, I think not standing a candidate means people think we do not matter on a very important matter , crime . The attitude stinks quite frankly , it is student union protest no , thats an insult to good radicals, students , that is ! If we do not want politicisation of policing , fine , why favour policing committees of local party political councillors , which those negative about standing for pcc elections do favour ?! When I saw a photo of Torbay party members with there axes in their hands and their “axe the mayor ” slogan , I did not know whether to laugh , cry or scream ! Crime matters .It seems in some areas the party do not .
As Glenn said, we should stand candidates, but the description on the ballot paper should be: “Liberal Democrat – Abolish Police Commissioners”.
Tonyhill,
What happens if they get elected.? How are they going to abolish anything? Sorry, Lorenzo, if you think my proposal is immature. Putting up a candidate requires a candidate and some kind of campaign, which may not be easy on either count in some areas. A cheaper option would be a press release something like this: “Liberal Democrats are fundamentally opposed to the concept of Police and Crime Commissioners and, in particular, to the inadequate governance currently in place to hold them democratically to account. We shall not be fielding candidates and urge those who agree with us to indicate their opposition to PCCs on their ballot papers if they decide to vote”.
The problem will be to get all local parties to agree. You know what our activists are like as soon as the word ‘election’ appears!
@tonyhill ‘the description on the ballot paper should be: “Liberal Democrat – Abolish Police Commissioners”’
Could be a dangerous tactic requiring a very careful approach. Lib Dems have already been criticised for flip-flopping on PCCs (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/liberaldemocrats/11088228/Lib-Dems-u-turn-on-Police-and-Crime-Commissioners.html) and if a Lib Dem candidate were successful on a platform of abolishing the position, every day they remained in the job would reinforce the negative narrative about Lib Dem trustworthiness.
As a former chair of Essex Police Authority, and having served with Employment Tribunals for 15 years, as well as 10 as a tribunal member for Standards in Local Government, I feel confident that my view that PCC’s are a waste of money and create superficial “brokers men” for Government and that we should loudly and actively boycott this mess, will be ignored by those for whom elections are not a means to the end, but the reason they are activists.
I agree entirely with you, Richard. I served for a mere 8 years on the Lincolnshire Police Authority. It wasn’t perfect by any means; but it was 100% better than what came after!
I’m standing as the Liberal Democrat candidate for Dyfed Powys Police Commissioner, and I am standing because I want them abolished.
A police service that treats people fairly, engages with local communities and recognises that proper accountability starts at the grass roots, in the relationship between a local policing team and the community they serve is key to a Liberal society. If we don’t stand we miss the opportunity to sell that message, and to deliver it when we win.
Being against the EU doesn’t stop UKIP and Tories standing for the European parliament and being in favour of Scottish independence doesn’t stop the SNP stand for Westminster.
I wish you luck, Richard. You are going to need it. Were you actually to win in your area, how do you actually propose to abolish your post? Pull the other one!
With regard to the EU, be careful what you say about the Tories. You certainly should not lump all of them together with UKIP in terms of opposition to this institution. The SNP isn’t a good example either. Now Northern Ireland’s Sinn Fein MPs are a better example as they have never taken their seats at Westminster.
What we are dealing with here is a principle not a political institution. I sincerely believe that if sufficient numbers of voters spoiled their ballots in the upcoming PCC elections the government just might take notice. Or is that just as naive as your reason actually for throwing your hat in the ring?
If a PCC is elected on an “Abolish PCCs” ticket (preferably non-party with Liberal support) surely they will resign office within days? And if that triggers a fresh election the saga must be repeated until Cameron gets the message.
How else can the opposition make its voice heard?
So, Mr Probert, you are happy to waste taxpayers’ money to prove this particular point, are you? Now, if enough people spoiled their ballots, that might just make the government think again. It’s time that a few of you started thinking outside the box! But I guess that’s not in the ALDC operating manual.
Lorenzo – I do support abolition of elected mayors and PCCs. I also favour – ultimately, when people get over the royal family – a republic. However, unlike the situation you postulate, I would favour a ceremonial, president, not a head both of state and government, as they have in Germany, or Ireland, or many other countries. It is remarkable how so many people think that the Executive, US, or French style president is the only type. Whereupon they trot out all the President Blair, President Thatcher etc stereotypes….
Indeed, Tim, as far as Germany is concerned, the Federal President is ‘elected’ not by universal suffrage but by the Bundesversammlung, a body comprising equal numbers of Federal MPs and delegates from the Länder. I’m not sure how it works in Ireland but it has thrown up at least one President, who actually came from Northern Ireland!
On an impact note, I bet quite a few of us could name the Chancellor of Germany and the Prime Minister of the Irish Republic. How many of us, however, could name those countries’ Presidents?