9 Comments

• Joe Otten 12th Oct '13 - 1:51pm

  There is a danger that this presentation emphasises trajectory over actual rating. Norman Baker may have dipped slightly but was still at a high level.

  And I guess David Heath is being blamed for the badger cull. There is no downward trend until the end.

• coldcomfort 12th Oct '13 - 2:18pm

  What’s wrong with the badger cull? Why is it OK to prematurely slaughter many tens of thousands of cattle but not try & prevent that by culling less than 2000 badgers? Likewise fox hunting. The fox has no natural predators. It is one of a very few animals (along with humans) who kills for reasons other than food [ go look a field of lambs or a chicken coop]. If caught by hounds its death is very swift. Not so if shot in the backside and left to crawl away to a slow death. I shall probably now get a torrent of abuse from so called animal rights lovers. Well I’m as concerned about animal welfare as anyone but the logic of those who also release mink into the wild defeats me.

• Helen Tedcastle 12th Oct '13 - 2:42pm

  @coldcomfort: “If caught by hounds its death is very swift.” So being torn limb from limb while exhausted and frightened from a long chase, is more ‘in the interests of animal welfare’ than being shot and left to die. Strange sort of kindness and a strange form of ethical principle at work, which justifies the use of violence against wild animals because, ‘something must be done.’ The fact that some people obtain pleasure from it, adds to the dubiousness of the practice.

  As for the badger cull – there is insufficient evidence to back up this slaughter. Perhaps if some farmers treated their cows as creatures rather than commodities, they wouldn’t get TB in the first place.

  The badger is a scapegoat for wrong-headed industrial farming methods.

• David Evans 12th Oct '13 - 6:46pm

  While agreeing with Helen about the Foxes, I think that the comment “if some farmers treated their cows as creatures rather than commodities, they wouldn’t get TB in the first place. ” is totally unjustified. Milk producers in our area certainly look after their animals very well, and describing most dairying as “industrial farming” is so remote from reality as to be almost laughable. They are in fields 20+ hours a day for most of the year, now if you had been talking about pig farming, I would agree much more on that.

• tonyhill 12th Oct '13 - 6:59pm

  If we adopted a plant based diet that sustainability and global warming will eventually necessitate that we do then neither bovine TB nor badger culling would be an issue.

• jedibeeftrix 12th Oct '13 - 7:56pm

  @ Helen – “Strange sort of kindness and a strange form of ethical principle at work, which justifies the use of violence against wild animals because, ‘something must be done.’”

  Legally speaking, we term these things “pests”, I believe usage of the term is quite widespread. 🙂

  @ Tony – “If we adopted a plant based diet that sustainability and global warming will eventually necessitate that we do then neither bovine TB nor badger culling would be an issue.”

  No, meat will simply get more expensive, and I hope i will be wealthy enough to keep on sinking my teeth in a steak when I please, regardless of the tragedies of bovine TB and badger culls.

• Helen Tedcastle 12th Oct '13 - 8:46pm

  jedibeeftrix: ” we term these things “pests” “: you do if you are Owen Paterson or art of the hunting, fishing and shooting fraternity – or a government marksman… wild animals are termed pests by those who wish to exterminate them.

  ” No, meat will simply get more expensive” More expensive meat means less meat consumed hopefully, and this is a good thing – for health and for the environment. More room to grow grain to feed the world ;-).

  “…and I hope i will be wealthy enough to keep on sinking my teeth in a steak when I please” That’s your choice but it’s an unhealthy one and I hope future generations have the good sense to eat less meat, have a healthier,balanced lifestyle which puts less strain on the health service and develop a sustainable environment.”

• Tony Greaves 13th Oct '13 - 12:00am

  I suppose it’s only on a LD site that a thead about the ratings of Ministers could turn into one on vegetarianism.

  Tony

• John Roffey 13th Oct '13 - 3:02pm

  The capacity of LD members to avoid reality must – by now – have become legendary!