My post earlier this week about Sussex Police’s latest rape prevention campaign proved controversial. Former Lib Dem presidential candidate and parliamentary candidate for Mid Sussex Daisy Cooper and others complained to the force after the posters were tweeted out last Saturday:
HI @EverydaySexism@evawuk will you join me in demanding @sussex_police apologise &withdraw victim-blaming poster? pic.twitter.com/sTDL0TbbSq
— Daisy Cooper (@libdemdaisy) April 4, 2015
Now Sussex Police have listened to the enormous amount of feedback they have had about this campaign and withdrawn it, as the Argus reports:
Detective Superintendent Paul Furnell, Head of Public Protection, said: “The way we have gone about this campaign has caused some concern. This was not the intention of our message and for that I apologise.
“We have listened to our partners and we have reached the decision to foreshorten this particular part of the campaign.
“The posters were not intended in any way to blame victims. I understand the concerns that have been raised about the poster and they will be withdrawn. I would like to stress that the posters were well intentioned with the sole aim of preventing people becoming victims of crime.
“Sussex Police is determined to continue to raise awareness of this issue and, with the support of partners, target those who seek to exploit and abuse vulnerable people.
“Together we are committed to tackling all violence against women, girls, men and boys and will continue a campaign that will focus on rape and sexual offences that will deal with consent, perpetrators, prevention, awareness, education and vulnerability.”
It’s really good news that this has generated so much debate and received so much coverage. If you are interested in this issue, you may wish to read Alice Thomas’s excellent article looking at the issues around sexual assault and victim blaming before you comment.
* Caron Lindsay is Editor of Liberal Democrat Voice and blogs at Caron's Musings. You can find her on Bluesky at caronmlindsay.bsky.social
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34 Comments
From the Sussex Police website:
“James Rowlands, Strategic Commissioner for Domestic and Sexual Violence for Brighton & Hove City Council and East Sussex County Council said: ‘I welcome Sussex Police’s decision to withdraw this poster, in recognition of the feedback they have received. I look forward to working with them in the future as we, and our partners in Sussex, have a shared commitment to supporting victims, raising awareness about consent and most importantly holding to account those who commit rape or sexual assault.’
Supporting victims and holding perpetrators to account are of course massively important. But to say that this is more important than preventing people from becoming victims in the first place seems like an astonishing statement to me, and one I’d expect the Twitter feminists to be up in arms about if they were genuinely interested in improving women’s lives.
I can’t help thinking the law if unintended consequences may apply unfortunately
They’ve bowed to organised pressure. That is not the same as saying they have withdrawn it because it was wrong, which it most certainly wasn’t.
“and one I’d expect the Twitter feminists to be up in arms about if they were genuinely interested in improving women’s lives.”
Stuart, how dare you suggest that anyone who doesn’t follow your view of a situation is not interested in improving things. Please show more respect to fellow commenters.
It might do a lot more to improve women’s lives if the law enforcement authority wasn’t sending a tacit message that somehow the victim is to blame if they don’t keep themselves accompanied.
This decision is very much to be welcomed.
@Caron
“Please show more respect to fellow commenters.”
I disagree with a lot of the moral panics (for that’s what they often are) generated by certain people, largely on social media. It’s a legitimate comment and was not aimed at commenters here.
@Paul Walter
I disagree. There’s a possibility this poster could have been life-changing advice for someone who might have seen it. Set against that we have a lot of claims of hidden messages that nobody could substantiate and few reasonable people would probably recognise as being there. Perhaps, if Sussex Police unveil any more posters in their planned campaign (assuming they haven’t been put off the effort altogether) we can have another game of spot-the-hidden-meaning.
@Caron – Given some of the comments you have made, I would be very interested in the advice you give to your niece Emma on staying safe when she goes out with her friends… Similarly, I would be interested in how you are preparing your daughter, since my understanding is that she is of a similar age to my own.
Whilst there is a little bit of a barb to this request, I am genuinely interested in your answer. So I am happy for you to use the privilege of LDV editors and contact me directly if you feel it is not appropriate to post them here.
@Caron Lindsay
“It might do a lot more to improve women’s lives if the law enforcement authority wasn’t sending a tacit message that somehow the victim is to blame if they don’t keep themselves accompanied.”
The assumptions in that posting, Caron, are ‘peculiar’ to say the least. As I pointed out before, the advice being given would apply equally to males in any vulnerable situation, in respect of assaults and robbery which have nothing to do with sexual issues but are far more common. The campaign does not blame the victims in any way, shape or form. Nevertheless, I deplore the posting above which casts aspersions on whether people who take your ‘position’ on this issue really care.
I can’t think of any variant of Liberalism in which it’s acceptable to use feminist as a term of derision. If the Liberal Democrats are not to the core a feminist party, then they have no conceivable reason for existing at all. Feminism is a fundamental liberal value.
@Roland
Seconded. I have a teenage daughter myself and genuinely want to give her the best advice.
@David-1
Not all people who call themselves “feminists” are either liberal or even act in a way that furthers the interests of women. So there are good feminists and bad feminists (if you’ll pardon the Cleggism), and many of the latter kind are highly active on Twitter. I’ve criticised some of them here before, usually because I believe that whatever their intentions, they sometimes act in a way that is detrimental to women.
Just to give one example, I’m much less tolerant of the lack of senior women in the Lib Dems than some self-declared feminists are…
It’s not even victim blaming is it? If anything its blaming the mates of the victim. And that is pushing it.
It seems to be beyond some people’s comprehension that you can offer good advice on how to protect yourself AND chase and prosecute those who rape and sexually assault. It’s not an either or.
Roland/Stuart
I used to tell my daughter to make sure she always walked with her friends from the club/pub to the taxi rank & to ensure it was a licensed cab she was getting into, not a private hire illegally touting for business.
My son was told to always make sure any girls in their group were looked after at all times, both inside their drinking venue as well as out on the street.
I live in Sussex and there has been numerous sexual assaults of both men and women. It’s unrealistic to think women can walk alone at night & surely that was the point of the poster
Stuart
The very fact that Caron uses the title “victim blaming rape prevention campaign” says it all. Anyone that disagrees with her and a few others is automatically a “victim blamer”. It doesn’t matter that the vast majority of the public might think the poster helpful, they don’t like it so it has to go.
“Stuart, how dare you suggest that anyone who doesn’t follow your view of a situation is not interested in improving things. Please show more respect to fellow commenters.”
Caron, it is worth noting that one poster suggested that one gentlemen associates with rapists and that I am being weighed as a potential rapist by some of my dearest friends you did not ask for respect to be shown to fellow posters. Or is that because I am a man I do not have feelings which can be very much hurt.
My sister had to spend quite some time calming me down after that comment, not because I was angry, but due to how upset and distressed I was at the suggestion that my friends would consider me a rapist. A suggestion made by a person who has never met me. You may think that because I am a male I cannot be hurt emotionally and that I do not take rape seriously, the truth is that I take it most seriously having seen some of its affects first hand.
It may help if you asked commentors to show respect there, please.
Caron, your comments are inappropriate, offensive, and unacceptable. This goes against everything I stand for as a liberal. We are supposed to be making people’s lives better, not making up claims like “the law enforcement authority [was] sending a tacit message that somehow the victim is to blame if they don’t keep themselves accompanied” when they clearly did no such thing . I would go beyond saying “they’ve bowed to organised pressure”, as one commenter did above. I would say rather: this “campaign” has taken a team that was making a serious effort to reduce rape, and convinced them to stop, likely demoralising them in the process. This has caused harm, where no harm was needful.
On a more moralistic note, it is not okay to go around attacking people in this manner. It is also not okay to be judging people for their apparent gender. We as a party stand for rejecting and opposing this kind of prejudice and discrimination, and you are fighting on the wrong side.
I do not personally adopt the “feminist” label, because I do not wish to be thought of as endorsing actions and comments like yours. I believe in equality of opportunity, not attacking people that are perceived as privileged. I fight for justice, dignity, and fair treatment of all women, men, and everybody else, and I will continue to fight against what you have said and done here.
Caron Lindsay 10th Apr ’15 – 8:45pm…….Stuart, how dare you suggest that anyone who doesn’t follow your view of a situation is not interested in improving things. Please show more respect to fellow commenters…..
and yet on the other article, you posted …………………………..Caron Lindsay 7th Apr ’15 – 8:31am………Clearly I am fighting an uphill battle here. I actually despair at the attitudes of many men in and around our party. They aren’t so different from the attitudes of many men in wider society but if we truly believe in equality, we might hope for better……..
Perhaps, you might follow your own advice?
16 comments so far. 1 from a woman (Caron), 1 indeterminate, and 14 apparently from men. Men men men men men.
Jenny Barnes 11th Apr ’15 – 8:37am …….16 comments so far. 1 from a woman (Caron), 1 indeterminate, and 14 apparently from men. Men men men men men…….
“four legs good two legs bad”, comes to mind!
Jenny Barnes
I am not sure what point you are trying to make but it seems to be that men should STFU. Sinister and totalitarian IMO.
Sincerely,
Tsar ( a man)
I do not understand what is wrong with a basic message that says: look out for your friends.
Can someone explain?
I still agree with Caron. The headline, photo and text were all wrong and Sussex Police were very wise to rapidly withdraw the campaign. I am sure they can come up with better campaigns which give safety advice.
And Jenny, could you please at least note that david-1 and I have supported Caron, even though we are “men men”? Or is this a bit like some 80s demonstrations when even men who wanted to show support for women were turned away?
@expats
There is a difference between despairing at genuine attitudes of others, as Caron did, and accusing others of not being genuine.
Paul Walter
“Or is this a bit like some 80s demonstrations when even men who wanted to show support for women were turned away?”
We all support women and that’s why so many – men and women – supported the Sussex police poster.
Jenny
“16 comments so far. 1 from a woman (Caron), 1 indeterminate, and 14 apparently from men. Men men men men men.”
And ?
You do know that monikers are not always indicative of gender, don’t you ? Consider how so many children are groomed by adults posing as other children when the truth is vastly different.
The internet is a place where one can be whatever one chooses to be.
Lib Dem Voice produces yet another totally skewed headline with massive exaggeration and hyperbole to attack an initiative by the police trying to guide people towards staying safe, while ignoring many posts from good liberals pointing out the problems in its arguments and choice of language. Mysogeny and victim blaming are the watchwords and any sense of balance goes out of the window as hysteria is whipped up.
No entering into debate except on its own narrow terms and without consideration of others views and arguments. No wonder the Lib Dems are due for a right royal stuffing very soon. Makes you proud, doesn’t it?
malc 11th Apr ’15 – 9:55am …….We all support women and that’s why so many – men and women – supported the Sussex police poster……..
Well, we thought we did. Sadly, it turns out that we’re just a lot of “victim blamers”,
@expats @David Evans @MartinB and many others
It’s been pretty clear to me, reading comments on several very different websites (including this one), that this isn’t a debate where people split along the lines of liberal/illiberal, left/right, feminist/misogynist, male/female or whatever. The original article tried to paint it as such an issue from the off and that’s where it went so wrong.
Stuart, I believe Caron has already been asked the question but, as a father, I know how I’d feel if I received a call from my daughter asking me too come for her as her friends had left her…..Said ‘friends’ would get the same advice from me as the per the poster in question…. ……
@MartinB – Yes I don’t disagree with the advice that has been handed down over many decades, although I would add that you do need to advise boys to also think about their actions so that they aren’t leaving themselves open to unreasonable accusations.
My query was whether the world had moved on and hence we were by our actions simply facilitating the development of young adults with a victim complex…
Well done Daisy and all those who campaigned for a change here and also to the Sussex Police for gracefully accepting that this had unintended connotations. We Lib Dems want people to forgive us our own imperfections – so we must surely salute others who correct mistakes.
Earlier this morning I saw a news report Internet scammers con British holidaymakers out of £2.2m
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32272863 In summary “Criminal groups have targeted online booking firms in order to swindle money from unsuspecting customers. Many only discover they have been duped when they arrive at their accommodation and find no booking has been made.”
One can only imagine the upset and stress although not on a scale of the crimes that Sussex Police sought to prevent.
But what troubles me is the City of London Police saying “The nature and scale of holiday fraud means police action alone can only be part of the solution to this problem. Online shoppers must be vigilant and conduct all the necessary checks before booking a break to ensure the conmen are kept at bay.”
Whereas the crime is very different, the Police approach appears strikingly similar. “We can’t make everything perfect so you have to look out for yourself” is the common thread it seems to me.
So my question to you dear fellow LDV readers is “What do we expect from our Police”?
Pete
@Peter Dollimore
“Whereas the crime is very different, the Police approach appears strikingly similar. “We can’t make everything perfect so you have to look out for yourself” is the common thread it seems to me.”
That perfectly sums up why Sussex police were absolutely right in their campaign and why you, and others, are so completely wrong.
The police have finite resources. They can’t be everywhere all of the time and, if they were, there would be a plethora of articles on here denouncing them. In the real world, prevention of crime is our responsibility as well as the police force. That is why we put locks on our doors and install alarm systems in our houses and businesses. That is why shopkeepers fit CCTV cameras in their shops. That is why we have locks and alarms on our cars. That is why supermarkets and retailers fit tags to certain products. That is why we have neighbourhood watches, etc, etc. That is why we, as members of the public, need to work in partnership with the police and why they promote that approach. The alternative is that we stop doing all of these measures and pay much higher taxes for many more police.
You appear to advocate an absolutist world (which seems to share similar features as the theoretical, utopian worlds of Caron Lindsay, Alice Thomas and Paul Walter) in which we should all sit back and do nothing and then get upset with the police when bad people do bad things. The reality, however, of rape is that many of the perpetrators are abusive individuals who know full well that they are breaking the law but get away with it because (a) they deliberately target vulnerable women and (b) they know full well that with rape taking place behind closed doors there is only one person’s word against another and that that does not constitute sufficient evidence for a conviction. That is why most rapists aren’t brought to justice and it has nothing to do with bias of the system. A few decades ago judges and the police did frequently blame the victims but those attitudes have largely disappeared – rape hasn’t.
I know several women that have been raped. I don’t want to go in too much detail here but when a relative of my wife was gang-raped in her own flat I immediately took time of work, despite a pressing deadline, to travel to the other side of the country with my wife to help give her support. She suffers from a mental health disorder that has led her to put herself in dangerous and vulnerable situations on frequent occasions. According to theories of Paul Walter, Caron Lindsay and Alice Thomas, she should keep doing this, despite the fact that the justice system is incapable of prosecuting most rapes because of an obvious lack of evidence surrounding consent for a crime that is mostly committed in the privacy of people’s houses.
If we are serious about wanting to reduce the incidence of rape then we need to find methods of (a) improving prosecution rates by improving evidence collection by use of recording equipment and/or (b) trying to prevent it happening by increasing awareness of methods of improving personal safety. However, both of these methods are likely to be shouted down by the people mentioned above. The idea that rapists just need to be made aware of what consent is, I find, deluded and harmful.
Steve, I took Pete Dollimore’s post as being ‘ironic’
Well done Daisy and Caron.
Martin B: “It is unrealistic to think women can walk alone at night”.
Ye gods! A world of curfews and chaperones?
Ruth – I think we do need to do our utmost to ensure our women and men are streetwise. We shouldn’t forget there are times and places where being male it can be daft to walk alone, being aware of these circumstances and acting accordingly is an important skill we should be passing down the generations. But I do agree with you, if we set out with the wrong frame of mind, we could very easily arrive somewhere unpleasant.