Today saw a weird piece of media face with an impostor conning several news outlets into reporting that Edinburgh West MP Mike Crockart was going to resign as a PPS and vote against the tuition fees increase. The impostor even got as far as being interviewed by the BBC on the World at One before the hoax was rumbled. His office said that, “Mike is still waiting to see what the final offer will be before he votes and that has always been our line”.
(Ironically just before this took place, I was in Millbank to appear on the BBC’s Daily Politics Show and was joking with the floor manager about how they were double-checking that I was indeed me. As he said, “After the taxi driver incident…” though actually the taxi driver wasn’t a taxi driver.)
Norman Baker has also been in the news today, having publicly confirmed that he has not yet made up his mind which way to vote (and therefore may resign as a minister, if he decides to vote against rather than abstain).
Charles Kennedy and Ming Campbell’s intentions to vote against have also been firmed up in the last couple of days.
Meanwhile, Greg Mulholland, in an interview on the BBC during which his feet appeared to be on fire (smoke kept on bellowing up from the bottom of the screen), called for the vote on Thursday to be delayed prior to a wider review. So far he is a lone voice on this, and other people who earlier in the year were pondering the merit of a wider review first are not supporting his call.
People have also gone off the idea of trying to unite around a mass abstention, which was the focus of speculation last week.
If you spot any other news on how individual MPs will vote, please do pop them up in the comments thread (but please use one of the other active threads on the subject of tuition fees for general discussion of the issue).
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According to the Twitter feeds sabbatical officers at Edinburgh University Students Association, Mike Crockart has personally told them he will vote against (but he isn’t pre-emptively resigning).
I think it’s clear that Tim Farron and Julian Huppert are definitely voting against. Or at least as clear as these things ever get…
What’s the received wisdom on the numbers that will result in the bill being defeated – including Tories abstaining or even voting against (David Davis for example).
Personally I would respect anyone who votes against (either because they think it’s a bad proposal, or because they feel bound by the infamous ‘election pledge’) and anyone who votes for (who believes the proposals are an improvement on the current set-up and the only practical way to move forward).
But I would find it very hard to respect an abstention ……..
Stephen Williams ruled out voting FOR on R4.
Simon Hughes wants to vote against if he does, word has it that he will sacked, so we could be looking for a new deputy leader, if he is forced out for voting with his conscience, I know many Bermondsey members will resign on block from the party.
Mulholland doesn’t seem to be alone: John Leech (LD) and Caroline Lucas (Green) are standing alongside.
http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=42136&SESSION=905
umm… a 4 way ‘split’?! More positively, perhaps now’s a good time to explain how we work as a party?
Too right John! This splits language arises from too many years watching Labour.
Personally I think ministers should vote for, other LibDem MPs should abstain and anyone voting against is rebelling and should be treated accordingly (this isn’t to say they shouldn’t vote against). As a liberal I feel the idea of whipping is anathema. The idea I would fall out with another LibDem over this is ridiculous – if I wanted fratricidal infighting I’d join the Labour party.
Crewegwyn – It is perhaps difficult to see how an abstention is much of a strong option in this case, although it could be argued (just about!) that it accords with the Coalition agreement, and does not give support to a proposal which would break the signed pledge. However, I am getting very fed up with people on here sounding off about how “we don’t vote for people to have them abstain in Parliament”. Abstention is often a strong option – it says “I have promised not to vote against my party unless under the greatest of moral pressure, but this is a measure I can’t support for (usually) constituency reasons. This is normally written into standing orders for our groupsat Council level.
Not sure Simon Hughes is sackable as deputy leader, it isn’t a ministerial post – it is a post decided by a ballot of MPs and I would think it would have to be a vote of no confidence that would be needed to remove him rather than a decision by Nick Clegg, in my opinion.
Smallcasserole – another well worn comment “should be no whipping” in the Lib Dems(!) I would say strong discipline is required!! (Many a true word in jest!)
The Independent says:
Government whips say approval of the package is “not certain” because of the chaos in Liberal Democrat ranks. “It’s not in the bag yet,” said one source. Whips believe the vote is so tight that a handful of Tory MPs could scupper the fees increase by opposing it.
…
But Mr Clegg is not even sure yet that all five Liberal Democrat Cabinet ministers will support the package, as he wishes. Danny Alexander, the Chief Treasury Secretary, and Michael Moore, the Scotland Secretary, will follow his lead. But Chris Huhne, the Energy and Climate Change Secretary and the man Mr Clegg beat for the Liberal Democrat leadership in 2007, is keeping his cards close to his chest. He is due to return from the climate change talks in Cancun, Mexico, for Thursday’s vote but one Liberal Democrat source admitted: “He is maintaining radio silence.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chaos-in-lib-dem-ranks-as-vote-on-tuition-fees-creates-party-split-2152171.html
But earlier the BBC seemed less confident that Moore would vote “Yes.”
I am sure Lloyd is right on this.
I think I heard that Chris Huhne will be ‘away on business’ for the vote – so you could say that was a passive abstention.
@ john
I still find it difficult to understand why those LDs who do not have government jobs need to vote for the measure unless they believe it is an improvement on the pledge – and they are prepared to break that pledge. Those with government jobs have to support the measure – or do what ministers have always done – resign and vote against.
Cameron does not want a GE since the polls do not show the Tories with any advantage, so if the measure is defeated it will give the Party extra negotiating strength from then onwards.
I also don’t understand why non government MPs can be expected to support measures of the Coalition – these are not policies they stood for at the GE so they have no obligation to support them.
If NC cannot wear the two hats required of him 1] leader of the Party looking after the interests of the Party and 2] Deputy PM trying to steer difficult Coalition legislation through the Commons, a temporary leader needs to be appointed who can do [1].
The Idea that Simon Hughes would be sacked as Deputy Leader if he voted against the fee’s is outrageous.
I also hear that Chris Huhne “Might” be away for the vote.
The Party obviously needs at least 1 MP who is capable of taking over the leadership, and to be able to come out of this complete farce of a situation unscathed, so I guess it makes sense for Chris to miss the vote.
I really do not think it is acceptable for any MP to abstain on a vote though.
The electorate votes for an MP to represent them in Parliament.
That means an MP should vote for or against a policy, not to do so is a betrayal to his constituency and failing to do so, is failing to carry out his parliamentary duties.
How that MP chooses to vote is another matter. I believe an MP should vote in accordance with how he was elected, and an MP’s first responsibility is to his constituency, Then his party members, Then his parliamentary party and then finally to the coalition.
“Those with government jobs have to support the measure – or do what ministers have always done – resign and vote against.”
Given the coalition agreement, they are clearly allowed to abstain even if they have government jobs.
Voting against is like bolting the stable door after the horse has fled. The Lib Dems promised to ‘oppose’ student tuition fee increases. There has been quite clearly a complete lack of opposition from the Lib Dems on this. Voting against or abstaining could make the politician look even worse.
@SmallCasserole
“The idea I would fall out with another LibDem over this is ridiculous – if I wanted fratricidal infighting I’d join the Labour party.”
Conversly, if I wanted to vote for a candidate who broke their promises once elected I could have voted Labour or Conservative….
I can’t see how Hughes could be ‘sacked’.
His position as Deputy Leader of the Parliamentary Party is an elected post, not an appointment by the Leader.
I think the final nail in the LibDem Parly coffin would be if some MPs and Ministers voted for or abstained but some Tories voted against and helped defeat the policy. I suppose anything’s possible the way things are going.
Was watching Aaron Porter again on the news – he gets stronger, more polished and more confident everytime I see him. He said he was meeting with Willett this afternoon and couldn’t get any details out of him.
Martin Horwood is also in Cacun saving the planet.
This is starting to become a farce.
Here’s a link to a site purporting to show a list with references to MP’s statements on the subject.
Those, who may be upset by what the parties enemies (and indeed former friends) are saying, with in some case accuracy and in others without any reference to accuracny whatsoever, are better advised not to follow the link.
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/12/06/will-any-libdems-rebel-on-tuition-fees-vote-heres-a-list/
@ AAS
‘Given the coalition agreement, they are clearly allowed to abstain even if they have government jobs.’
Perhaps most LDs with government jobs realise their political career is in great danger of ending if they abstain rather than vote against.
One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned before is LibDem MPs in Scotland or Wales who abstain or vote for the increased tuition fees for English students while students in their own constituencies aren’t affected.
Perhaps they think the will escape student ire or general electoral backlash against LibDems but I have a feeling that they won’t.
@ Cheltenham Robin
Well if you’re going to save the planet there’s no better to be than Cancun 🙂
David Davis is to vote “No.” That may throw a spanner in the works:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Tuition-Fees-Nick-Clegg-Attempts-To-Unite-His-Party-As-David-Davis-MP-Says-He-Will-Vote-Against/Article/201012115848438?f=rss
Gary – if what you say comes to pass I suggest we meet on College Green for a ceremonial burning of membership cards.
According to the FT, “Lynne Featherstone, equalities minister, is said to be wavering.”
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8bc241f6-0178-11e0-9b29-00144feab49a.html#axzz17MvdIvVR
@EcoJon
“One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned before is LibDem MPs in Scotland or Wales who abstain or vote for the increased tuition fees for English students while students in their own constituencies aren’t affected.
Perhaps they think the will escape student ire or general electoral backlash against LibDems but I have a feeling that they won’t”
I don’t think any MP will escape the backlash if they vote for or even if they Abstain, even if they are Scottish or Wales MP’s.
I think this whole situation, for the majority of the public, now goes beyond whether you are for or even against tuition fee’s in general.
It is more about MP’s and especially Liberal Democrat MP’s delivering on a promise, the “promise” of a new kind of politics, “No more broken Promises”
If they are seen to shirk away from that promise at the very first opportunity, it will be disastrous for them at the next G.E, and it will be even more so for the councillor colleagues at the upcoming local elections
Pairing arrangements allow MPs to effectively vote without being present.
Please remember what the post says at the end, “If you spot any other news on how individual MPs will vote, please do pop them up in the comments thread (but please use one of the other active threads on the subject of tuition fees for general discussion of the issue)” – thanks!
Liberal Democrat MPs should be ashamed supporting this policy. I hope that Scottish and Welsh MPs dont think they can hide behind abstention while not imposing fees on their own constituients.
On the pairing issue the LP might pull the plug and cite the National Interest as the reason – they’ve nothing to lose and it would go down well with the electorate.
Charles and Menzies were crystal clear they would vote against back when the Browne review came out so I don’t see how they could ‘firm it up’ any more than already having said they would vote against the fees.
I look forward to seeing Nick arrive for the vote in a clown car wearing an amusing wig and red nose as this farce lurches into a complete shambles. Charles and Menzies had best get used to the idea sooner rather than later of being caretakers for the Party when Nick goes and Simon is voted Leader.
Herte is an informative list of Liberal Democrat MPs and all their current stated positions whether voting for, against, abstaining, wavering or whatever other possible positions some of the more creative MPs may now be adopting.
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/12/06/will-any-libdems-rebel-on-tuition-fees-vote-heres-a-list/
I’m really tired of people telling us how difficult it is for Lib Dem MPs. It isn’t difficult at all. All they have to do is go to the “No” lobby and walk through it.
@Andrew Suffield
Re Pairing
That only works when pairing with an opposition member, to pair against the vote they would have to pair with a Tory and they are all whipped…
SImon Wright MP (Norwich South) is voting against fees.
Tele news just saying Huhne will come back if necessary to vote for tuition fee rise
Those in marginal or student heavy seats will vote against. Backbenchers in less vulnerable seats will abstain, and ministers will vote for. Because that is the best way to maintain both votes and seats around the cabinet table, and that’s what this is about for the parliamentary party and we all know it.
The idea that the Lib Dem MPs actually believe in a policy they’ve argued in favour of for the last decade – that education should be paid for by progressive taxation – has been utterly shattered over the last few weeks. This is all about maximising votes and staying in cabinet.
None of the lib dem MPs will fall out about this, because they all are making the same cynical vote-chasing calculations, and will respect that each MP had to vote in a different way. It’s just a really visible example of the whole ‘tell some voters one thing, tell other voters the opposite’ that lib dems are famous for.
“Tele news just saying Huhne will come back if necessary to vote for tuition fee rise”
Well, at least that makes me feel a bit better about abstaining in the leadership election because I thought they were each as bad as the other …
If you read only one article today about the university fees fiasco, make it this one:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5115844a-0174-11e0-9b29-00144feab49a.html#axzz17NXKCmOb
Mike80
It’s just a really visible example of the whole ‘tell some voters one thing, tell other voters the opposite’ that lib dems are famous for.
And I suppose other parties’ MPs have never embarked on this course?! The only reason they are “famous for” it, is because Mike 80 and others like him go on interminably about individual examples no worse or different from reps of other parties. Mud can stick, of course. One or two of our politicians have, of course, used the excuse “we were campaigning then – we did not know we would be in Govt – now we have to be realistic”. People making that excuse should be taken out and shot – metaphorically, of course! That is the most disgracefully cynical thing for any politician to do, or even think. That represents all that is worst about the “old politics”. It is not “grown up”, it is just dishonest, and confirms tabloid and popular prejudice about our profession.
For me, the difficult thing is that we have for many years stood for a “new politics”, a cleaner more open politics. Now you could say that in the case of fees the Lib Dems are indeed being more open, and actually airing some of the differences in public, and we may actually see a few ministers resign over this. But, we still seem to be heading in the same direction as Tories and NuLab – by abandoning public commitments and paying obeisance to the private sector. Many of us have meant the end of that, and the commitment to green action as a “new politics”. I am very dubious as to whether we are heading in that direction. And that is irrespective of breaking specific pledges, as by voting yes in the coming fees vote.
Now that collective abstention is off the table lets not be too applauding at the MP’s who will vote no… they do so knowing full well that the vote is going to go through – although of course there is the glorious prospect of them all thinking that and the whole thing backfiring…well stranger things have happened over the last few days….
Jo Swinson is persuing her foolish vote for the tuition fees rise, whilst opposing the same policy in Scotland. It really is shameful.
She might not have university in her constituency, but there are thousands of students there who stay with their parents and commute to the 3 Glasgow Unis and UWS as is norm in the West of Scotland (students tend to leave home after graduation here).
She will not be forgiven.
The whole thing is to calculated for my liking and is showing that the party is deciding together, who should vote for, who against and who should abstain, insuring that the policy still actually goes through.
That’s how the whole thing appears to me anyway.
MP’s do not appear to be voting by their own conscience in the way there constituents elected them, but by what is best for the parliamentary party as a whole, and that stinks
But a survey of Lib Dem MPs by the BBC suggests wide divisions on the issue.
All 57 were contacted on Monday to gauge how they planned to vote on Thursday, with 13 saying they would vote with Labour against the fees proposal.
Thirteen said they were undecided, while two said they would back the government. Sixteen refused to say how they would vote. One will not be voting as they are abroad, while 12 did not respond.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11935176
There seems to be a near-universal expectation that this will pass, but obviously it depends what those 41 end up doing.
Latest Yougov Polls
http://today.yougov.co.uk/sites/today.yougov.co.uk/files/YG-Archives-Pol-ST-results-031210_0.pdf
During the general election the Liberal Democrats campaigned against university tuition fees and some people have accused them of breaking promises by backing tuition fees. The Liberal Democrats have since said that the economic
situation means tuition fees are unavoidable. Do you think the Liberal Democrats are
right or wrong
to go back on their pledge to oppose tuition fees
26% Right
63% Wrong
12% Don’t know
MPs are to vote on the planned rises in tuition fees, as set out by the business department, led by Business Secretary Vince Cable, next week. Prior to the election, Mr Cable signed a pledge to vote against any future rises in tuition fees. Vince Cable has now claimed that he could be persuaded to abstain from voting on the future of tuition fees to show unity with his Liberal Democrat colleagues. Some claim that, as the minister in charge of the policy, he should vote
for it, whilst others claim that he should honour his pre-election pledge and vote against it
What do you think Vince Cable should do
26% He should vote FOR tuition fee rises as his department has proposed the policy.
14% He should ABSTAIN from voting to show unity with his Liberal Democrat Colleague
45% He should vote AGAINST tuition fee rises, honouring pre-election pledge
2% None of these
13% Don’t know
Do you approve or disapprove of the Government’s record to date
37% Approve
46% disapprove
17% Don’t know
Do you think that David Cameron is doing well or badly as Prime Minister?
12% Very well
35% Fairly well
47% total well
25% Fairly Badly
20% very Badly
Total Badly 45%
8% Don’t know
Do you think that Nick Clegg is doing well or badly as leader of the Liberal Democrats?
4% Very well
28% Fairly well
Total well 32%
23% Fairly Badly
33% Very Badly
Total Badly 56%
12% Don’t know
Do you think the Conservative and Liberal Democrat coalition partners are working together well or badly?
9%very well
38% fairly well
Total well 47%
25% fairly Badly
19% Very Badly
Total badly 44%
9% don’t know.
It’s not really looking very good for the coalition is it? and especially the Liberal Democrats
“Do you think the Liberal Democrats are right or wrong to go back on their pledge to oppose tuition fees
26% Right
63% Wrong
12% Don’t know”
Actually I thought the most interesting thing about that was the following:
Among the public as a whole, 26% think the party is right, whole 63% think they are wrong. Today’s Lib Dem voters divide evenly 44% say right, 44% say wrong. But among those who voted Lib Dem in May, as many as 68% say the party is wrong to abandon its election pledge; just 21% think the party is right.
http://today.yougov.co.uk/politics/lib-dem-fees-row
Clearly the electorate are very disapproving of what is going on and Liberal Democrats and especially Clegg and Cable are in a very precarious position.
I still find it astonishing though, that it is still {Party Policy} To abolish Tuition Fee’s, and as things stand, the policy on which they would campaign at the next election – is to scrap tuition fees entirely over a six year period.
And yet there are Liberal Democrat MP’s still willing to Abstain or Vote for a Rise in fee’s, remarkable, lol
That appears to imply that something like 95% of those whose support the party has lost since May think that it would be wrong to break the pledge.
Lee Scott (tory) says he will abstain:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11937946
“Mr Percy, newly-elected [Tory MP] for Brigg and Google [sic], confirmed that he would not support the fees hike, but had yet to decide whether to abstain or vote against it. ”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8186849/Tuition-fees-three-Conservatives-join-Liberal-Democrat-rebels.html
The same article says that David Willetts is to offer new concessions in a “frantic attempt” to convince waverers. The fact that this is still going on only two days before the vote suggests to me that despite assumptions the result isn’t really a foregone conclusion.
The first question is how many Lib Dem MPs will actually vote against the raise in tuition fees and break the coalition? The second question is if by voting against tuition fees MPs break the coalition and there is a general elction how many Liberal Democrat MPs would be prepared to sign such a pledge again? Hopefully, as well as all all of those voting against the government, those abstaining and voting for the raise in tuition fees would sign such a pledge again. In which case, those MPs who feel that in all conscience they must vote against the government should do so. The coalition will not approve of them but the public will.
One further thought. David Davies is showing more principle over this issue than many members of your party. Now, surely, that says everything.
Curiously enough James Forsyth in the Spectator makes the same point:
“Those Lib Dems who do vote for tuition fees can now expect to be mocked as being to the right of David Davis.”
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/6521028/dd-joins-the-tuition-fees-rebels.thtml
three Tories have now come out and said they’ll be voting against. The numbers are tightening up…
assuming we do split three ways equally, Sinn Fein stay at home, 3 Tories vote no and everyone else votes as you’d expect, I think it goes 322:303. In other words, the 19 abstentions mean the policy will pass. How will the abstainers feel then?
“Mr Clegg also set out the mechanism for dealing with MPs and Government members who decided they could not support the fees measures – but aides refused to reveal those details.”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5h2gTuNtsIpaqP09sA3JEYzWgQJVA?docId=N0018201291744902639A
No doubt they shall be the terrors of the earth …
There never ever was any doubt which way Clegg would vote – he’s gone too far down the road and his fate is totally locked-in with the Tories – if that’s a quad-lock it obviously trumps a triple-lock 🙂
I have little doubt that the vote will be carried mainly because of the payroll vote – not just existing ministers etc but for aspirant ones.
However, I am equally convinced that the party will now rupture which may suit my personal political position but does little to help all the young people who are going to be hit by this.
I was listening today to the lack of black entrants taken in by Oxbridge and when only 40 FSM kids got in last year then who’s kidding who about all the Russell Group unis taking in poor students and giving them a free year.
It’s a very sad time for democracy, social justice, principles and morality. In fact every LibDem who abstains should have their P45 stamped ‘LMF’. Younger readers might not understand what LMF means – well it was stamped on your service discharge book when you got a dishonourable discharge for ‘Lack of Moral Fibre’.
As to those who vote for the increase well I won’t say that I respect their right to do so unless they didn’t sign the pledge – both they and the abstainers will be dealt with in due course by the electorate who will eventually find out the sad story of Clegg’s tawdry deceit in full when the UK press eventually wake-up and spot the porkies that they have been fed and wolfed down because they are lazy journalists.
Well seems as though all 20 Liberal Democrat ministers are going to vote in FAVOUR for the Fee’s.
Nick Clegg, looked extremely smarmy about it, whilst talking to BBC news.
In my opinion, this will bring utter shame on the liberal democrat party.
The ministers are showing a total disregard towards their electorate, their regional parties and the Federal Party.
You can guarantee this will hit local elections results and Councillors very hard in May.
Shame on your party
As matt says, all Lib Dem Ministers will be whipped to vote against party policy and to break the personal pledges that each and every one of the signed before the election in favour of trebling the cap on tuition fees:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11935176
Folks, please remember what was said at the end of the post above, and also repeated in this comment thread:
Please remember what the post says at the end, “If you spot any other news on how individual MPs will vote, please do pop them up in the comments thread (but please use one of the other active threads on the subject of tuition fees for general discussion of the issue)” – thanks!
One of the most frequenct complaints from readers is that comment threads duplicate each other / go off topic, so please remember to respect your fellow readers. Thank you.
Dear Mr Voice,
As the author of “one of the other active threads on the subject of tuition fees”, I might be expected to support your call. After all, my post has attracted 87 comments to date, six fewer than the Nick Clegg thread my post is in competition with, and just 13 short of the magic century. Personal vanity demands – One more heave!
But… Actually, I suspect that readers have now said all they want to say in direct response to my post. They would prefer a new thread, one which isn’t buried on the second page of LDV by now, and, one which recognises the most recent developments. That’s why they are using this thread.
If you don’t like that, have a look at the way “Political Betting” deals with things. When Mr Smithson has accrued 500 (mostly silly!) comments on his latest post, and he doesn’t have a new one ready, he usually puts up something simple like a photo, and calls it “CONTINUATION THREAD”. This is his way to encourage people to go on posting without getting lost in a jungle of earlier posts. Perhaps you should do likewise?
@The Voice
“One of the most frequenct complaints from readers”
I’m a reader and I’m complaining that you have removed the short comment I made above. I’m also complaining that several relevant and interesting comments by other people have been removed. There are no other ‘active’ threads on tuition fees at the moment.
Dear Voice.
I would like to 2nd what Steve said above.
And David Allen’s comments.
It would be far easier if this forum was designed, so the most active threads, remained at the top of the pages, instead of being pushed to the back pages by more and more irrelevant articles.
No Doubt this will be met with cries of protests from some of the Liberal Democrats, who believe LDV, should be for the sole purpose of Liberal Democrats and it’s supporters.
I for one would have dearly loved to continue debating on David Allen’s article, It made for a refreshing change to see a Liberal democrat supporter, who was more than prepared to be critical of his party .
Maybe articles of importance, can be voted on, and if enough people have voted for the article, then it becomes a Sticky, and remains on the 1st pages.
“A Lib Dem whip told friends yesterday that the Government’s majority could be in ‘single figures’.
Another senior Lib Dem told the Mail the vote would be ‘bloody close’, and expressed frustration that Tory whips had failed to flush out their own rebels soon enough to win them over.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336625/Desperate-Clegg-begs-MPs-walk-tuition-fees.html
“Walk through the fire”.
Nice piece of Newspeak, Nick. Breaking a pledge means you are brave. Keeping a pledge means you are a wimp. OK then, bring on the wimps.
“Walk through the fire”.
Nice piece of Newspeak, Nick. Breaking a pledge means you are brave.
I thought it meant he was a fan of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Either that or nostalgia about setting fire to those cactuses in Bavaria …
All Lib Dem MPs who vote for the government on the raising of tuition fees in direct betrayal of their pledge should be deselected by their constituency parties.
“Walk through fire.”
No. It’s jumping off Beachey Head that Clegg and his fellow collaborators are proposing to do tomorrow.
I guess the only way we can stop this going through is if we get Nick and his ministers to sign a pledge that they are voting for it !
(The term PLEDGE has been copyrighted by Clegg & Co. Proper use of this word is strictly prohibited. Use of this word does not have any binding contractual obligation. Any damage caused to your reputation by the use of this word is not the responsibility of Clegg & Co. This does effect your statutory rights.)
‘walk through the fire’ really is a nice soundbite but firewalkers actually get to the other side safely with nothing more than the odd blister but a real sense of achievement.
Politicians who ignore their party policy as well as breaking personal pledges and take on a highly-mobilised, motivated, articulate and an increasingly more politically-savvy section of the electorate are likely to be destroyed in the conflagration and even if they survive they will never be able to escape the spectre of an inevitable eventual defeat.
How will they vote?
I hope they factor in David Milliband’s defeat for the Labour leadership. There may be little point in being next Lib Dem leader but I don’t think it will be someone who votes yes for this proposal if there is any other viable candidate.
Sort of about how people will vote and therefore sort of on topic.
If they sack Simon Hughes? Can “they”? I think he would get the post a second time around somehow. I wonder how many others that applies to.