Well. There’s a danger to thinking that Donald Trump can’t get any worse. He will inevitably disappoint you by sinking even lower.
Tonight’s row with Zelensky in the Oval Office was a case in point. It was always going to be a set-up for the brave Ukrainian leader but I don’t think any of us had quite anticipated the appalling scenes we saw. How he managed to handle himself with such calmness and dignity in the face of that barrage is beyond me.
One of many lowlights from Trump was him saying that he couldn’t condemn Putin because he couldn’t slag him off and then bring him in to a deal. But it was fine for him to call Zelensky a dictator? A fact he seemed to have forgotten when pressed on it yesterday by the BBC’s political editor Chris Mason.
It seems very much like it’s Trump and Putin vs Europe now. Who would have thought that we would need to increase defence spending to defend ourselves FROM the US.
I grew up during the Cold War. I was born after those 13 days in 1962 when everyone was terrified that the Cuban Missile Crisis would bring about a nuclear war. While there was a sort of perpetual anxiety, it was at least relatively stable. There was nothing as unpredictable as a US President who can be nice as pie one minute and as nasty as you can get the next.
Donald Trump has been in office for 39 days and so far it’s been much, much worse than I had feared. I hadn’t had “Mar – a – Lago on Gaza” and while we knew he was going to throw Zelensky under the bus, I don’t think anyone expected tonight’s scenes.
While I know that Keir Starmer is doing his best, I felt like there weren’t enough vomit emojis in the world last night to describe the camaraderie in the White House. It was just really uncomfortable. And the contrast with tonight is still making my blood run a bit cold.
Ed Davey has been quick to show support for Zelensky. He said:
This is thuggery from Trump and Vance, plain and simple. They are bullying the brave true patriot Zelensky into accepting a deal which effectively hands victory to Russia. Unless the UK and Europe step up, we are facing a betrayal of Ukraine.
However much the Government needs to play the diplomatic game, (and I would argue that he has maybe been laying it on more thickly than Trump deserves), we do need some robust voices properly standing up to Trump and calling him out. It’s been great that Ed has been doing this so strongly.
* Caron Lindsay is Editor of Liberal Democrat Voice and blogs at Caron's Musings
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19 Comments
I’ve had my criticisms of Biden & Harris, but this today from Trump & Vance was despicable. Zelensky has conducted himself impeccably across the world stage, and more importantly at home . For him to have to sit there and listen to a US president & vice president berate him like two gangsters running a protection racket was utterly shocking & shameful. Let’s hope the rest of the world leaders condemn this outrage for what it is. Starmer should start by cancelling that 2nd state visit ..
Thanks, Ed Davey and Caron, plus Craig, for expressing the disgust that scene in the Oval Office evoked in me, and I should think in thousands of us, including one hopes many Americans. (John Bolton, a previous Trump official, has already spoken out deploring what took place.) The sight of Trump apparently trying to rail-road President Zelenskyy into accepting an immediate peace package to Ukraine’s disadvantage, and publicly berating this heroic war leader of his people, makes one despair of America, the supposed leader of the free and democratic world.
As an American, I’m appalled at how they treated Zelenskyy. Trump and Vance baited him, and I’m convinced it was a premeditated attack because it’s a classic strongman ploy. They were hoping Zelenskyy would crumple. Zelenskyy – hardened by years of war and diplomacy and not one to back down in the face of sustained hectoring – did what he had to do. A deal may still be possible, but Trump knows he’s going to have to put more on the table (i.e., security guarantees) before Zelenskyy even considers returning.
@Craig: Totally agree with every word of that. The only thing I would add is – besides that we need to cancel Trump’s state visit, when are we inviting Zelensky? He’s the one who surely deserves a state visit.
This could simply be a performative exhibition for the American voters who wanted to see America “great again”. Indeed, one of the commentators on Radio Four said this is what normally happens behind closed doors under a Trump presidency, so in a way it was useful to have it out in the open. Putin might be rejoicing, but maybe he will get the same treatment, in private in his case.
@Andy Daer
“Putin might be rejoicing, but maybe he will get the same treatment, in private in his case.”
I’m not holding my breath
I, too, am appalled by the treatment of a brave man who is leading his country in war.
Trump and Vance have never had that experience and, hopefully, never will!
It troubles me that we have invited Trump on a second State visit; why? What has he done to merit it? Let us not forget this man is a convicted criminal in his own country. Why should our King and Queen be forced to associate with such a person? In my opinion, the invitation should be cancelled immediately as Trump has shown, in his treatment of President Zelenskyy, that he cannot be trusted, in any way.
Invitation from the King should be withdrawn.
UK should strengthen its military ties with Europe.
Ukraine should receive even greater support.
UK boots on the ground is problematic unless many other countries do likewise.
US trade sanctions? A don’t buy US campaign.
Trump is selling out Ukraine, selling out Europe and selling out the free world.
I fear that if the US Constitution is threatened by Trump then there is a real risk of conflict in the USA. The USA is becoming a bigger threat than Russia.
@ David Garlick. Fully agree that UK, or even NATO, boots on the ground is problematic as Putin would probably regard that as provocation by the West.
Is there any reason why a United Nations force of peacekeepers could not be deployed?
A disgraceful display from two bombastic bullies who took full advantage of an exhausted war-time leader whose first language isn’t English. It’s probably not politically practical to now cancel Trump’s undeserved second state visit. However, that doesn’t stop the British public making their feelings known through devices like parliamentary petitions.
Totally disgusting outburst by Vance and Trump, clearly planned and initiated by Vance to goad Zalensky into standing his ground, so unbelievably rude, to fool the Americans that Trump is standing up for their interests, which he is not, only his own self interest and pocket book. You have to admire Zeleenski, for trying to speak the truth about Russia, and Putin’s war crimes. Question now is How to make our nuclear deterrant truly independant, as we may need to protects ourselves against attack by the USA?
Never thought I would see myself saying it, but I found myself saying it to my Mum this morning, as someone who supported Brexit and voted for it, not really regretted that decision, until Yesterday when I witnessed this farce unfold and this even more dangerous new world unfold supported by Trump.
So my opinions have changed for this new era before us. Time to rejoin the EU, fully support a new European Army.
Trump, America and now, by Default NATO, can no longer be expected to support shared security.
The world is now a much more dangerous and unstable place, and not just from the likes of the usual suspects, Russia, Iran, Korea etc, but now the USA can also be included into the fold. With an American President talking about Annexing Canada and taking Greenland, sometimes I really think I have woken up into some weird alternative reality.
We desperately need a new, stronger military alliance that stands up for the values, democracy and security of our nations, and one that is not reliant on the US.
Our former friends can no longer be relied upon, so it is time that UK rejoined the EU and form a European Army and form a even larger alliance with our remaining allies.
Eu leaders and starmer need to get around the table, all countries need to commit to bigger defence spending and investing in our production and weapon capabilities,
Drive the money away from the USA.
Its going to cost a lot, but in the medium term we are going to have to accept higher taxes and higher borrowing to fund it, Our futures and security depends upon it
Watching this yesterday I was reminded of Putin publicly berating his spy chief in a 2022 televised Russian security council meeting on the recognition of Ukrainian breakaway regions. Trump seems to consider Zelensky one of his minions rather than the independent elected President of a sovereign European state.
The drive to bring the war to an end is welcome, but Zelensky is right to insist on answers to Ukraine’s need for security guarantees before making any concessions to Russia.
The assurance given in the Budapest memorandum signed by Presidents Yeltsin, Clinton and John Major amounted to nothing.
More than 20 US companies were present in Ukraine when Russia invaded and have had to withdraw. In 2014, after the invasion of Crimea, Chevron and other energy companies halted investments plans Chevron pulls out of shale gas project in Ukraine
President Trumps insistence that the presence of US personnel or his personal relationship with President Putin is of itself a security guarantee does not appear to be supported by the facts since 2014 including Trump’s first term.
Ukraine has to fight alone with ample moral but somewhat limited material support from European neighbours and potentially a hostile USA giving diplomatic support to Russia at the United Nations and elsewhere.
Maybe the best would be for Trump to come to UK to meet the king informally as was apparently planned in order to discuss the state visit, and then for Charles to publicly (alongside Trump) point out some home truths about the world we want, one where people are respected, treated as one would hope to be treated in return, and where countries work collectively to resolve the world’s problems, not make them worse by bullying and polluting the rest of the planet.
So what do we do next? For Europe and/or the UK to break with the US would be a huge step to take. For example, could we throw the US troops out of their UK bases? Would they leave without a fight? What would happen in Ukraine? A Russian walkover, with or without a massacre of a cobbled-together European defence army? And how long will Trump last, anyway? All these questions will make Starmer reluctant to abandon the tightrope walk he has embarked upon.
So the British public, and opposition parties like the Lib Dems, must pick up the baton, step up and support Ukraine. Condemn Farage as a fifth columnist for Trumpian fascism. Condemn Badenoch for facing both ways. Why not an Iraq-scale protest march in London, demanding Trump’s resignation? The US Democrats are beginning to recover their voice. The Canadians are likely to re-elect the Liberals – a massive shift in opinion driven by their need to defend Canada from Trump. Public opinion can make the difference!
So what do we do? Certainly not expel US troops from the UK – that would simply fit Trump’s agenda anyway. Nor call for his resignation: As non-US citizens that’s not our prerogative and would simply annoy the very Americans we need to engage. As a broad principle, the most productive things to do will be, anything that is likely to hurt Trump’s popularity, or convince Trump and the people around him that helping Ukraine/respecting allies will help his popularity, or that could induce more Republicans to criticise Trump over this. I fear we don’t have much leverage in those regards – especially given that anything that could be construed as foreigners interfering in American politics is likely to be counter-productive – but I’m open to any constructive ideas. Maybe the best we can do is actively campaign to get the UK Government to support Ukraine more?
Some fair points there, Simon R. But alongside cheering Zelensky, we should be thinking how best we can enable people to show their wholly justifiable anger. A protest against Putin’s warmongering would certainly be valid. And so would “Trump, don’t cosy up with the Russian murderer!”
They should sent all the Americans back to America and shut all the bases they are at. Shut the British borders and look after the British interests for a change, instead of bowing down to the Americans all the time. It is time to say enough is enough. Donald trump does not own Britain or it’s people. He is just a bully and that Vance needs his mouth walking out with soap he is discusting