This time last week, Roger Lord was looking forward to facing Conservative MP Douglas Carswell in the General Election next May. He might not have expected to trouble his majority too much but he was secure in his position.
That didn’t turn out so well for him when he heard that he was being ousted as candidate in the same way that we all did.
He’s not very happy about it and has quit his Council seat. He has given his rather unexpected backing for the ensuing by-election to Liberal Democrat District Councillor Gary Scott whom he described as a “genuine person”. Gary is not putting himself forward for the by-election.
EADT 24 has more:
I think there was a certain degree of naivety from Douglas Carswell, but I have no personal animosity to him.
“But I can’t see what is so special about him. He is not a blinding intellectual light leading the masses towards Nirvana.
“What insults the people of Clacton is that this was a deal made during a discreet meal in Mayfair in London. But will Stuart Wheeler [a key UKIP donor] come down to Brooklands in Jaywick and tell people how their future candidate was decided?”
Mr Lord, who stood for UKIP for the Saffron Walden seat in the 2010 general election, said he was looking forward to having a break from politics.
“There’s a big wide world out there and I have many interests, not confined to Britain,” he said.
“I will apply my head to business a bit more now.”
Mr Lord, a farmer, said he would be handing his support to Liberal Democrat Gary Scott, Tendring district councillor for Alresford, who he described as a “very genuine person” for the forthcoming county council by-election.
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31 Comments
The way this has been handled shows how Farage still sees UKIP as his personal property. It also undermines Carswells claims to “Bravery” if he wasnt prepared to risk a local Selection Meeting.
Quite bizarre that someone from UKIP feels they can support a Lib Dem candidate – unless it’s a purely personal thing.
I suspect its not really political. And Gary is a genuine bloke (occasionally to others frustration).
“Gary is not putting himself forward for the by-election.” – a shame. I know it’s outside of his patch, but he should stand for Clacton.
Things often are on a personal level in local government. At the 2007 district elections in Canterbury, standing in the ward where I lived, I voted for a pro Euro Conservative rather than vote for myself. The late Ken Avery was a good bloke and I had worked well with him on committees.
I agree with Paul. I think Cllr Gary Scott would be a good representative voice for the party in this by-election.
We should not waste our time by standing.
There are lots of Lib Dem/UKIP switchers.
I think we have a lot more in common with UKIP that we sometimes realise. Insurgent party, base in local government, not as obviously ideological as the big two parties, with more of a focus on supporting a good, local candidate and campaigning on local issues.
And we shouldn’t forget that UKIP are explicitly copying our election strategy too.
A colleague of mine in a cross-party electoral reform organisation observed a UKIP meeting and said that but for the anti-Europeanism it could have been any Lib Dem meeting he’d been to.
I’m sure it varies considerably around the country, but here in the south I think we ought to be far more worried than we appear to be about losing support to UKIP. Not because of their anti-Europeanism or their immigrant bashing but because they find it easier than we do these days to portray themselves as political outsiders standing up for local communities against a distant and heavy handed state.
Jonathan Brown: Fine if all you want to be are “political outsiders”.
@ Jonathan Brown – Yes we had the “We’re on the side of the governed, not the government” and the chance to make it work when we were in power and Nick went native so fast you couldn’t see him for dust. That’s the biggest tragedy of all.
Robin Lynn 4th Sep ’14 – 8:32am
Jonathan Brown: Fine if all you want to be are “political outsiders”.
Robin — what did you have in mind when you commented thus? The vast majority of the public (the voters) are outside the system. Outside the Westminster Bubble is where 99% of us live.
Is it that you dislike the very idea of being outside and mixing with all those ordinary, grubby voters with their inconvenient opinions ?
Or are you simply stating a preference for having a snout in the trough ?
What Jonathan Brown is saying is that he is fed up with the the constant harking back by many posters on LDV to what they seem to regard as the halcyon days when we could luxuriate in permanent opposition and not have to worry about what it is really like to play an important part in governing the country. The words “Nick went native so fast you couldn’t see him for dust” used by David Evans above are fairly typical of this point of view.
Jonathan Brown
I think we have a lot more in common with UKIP that we sometimes realise. Insurgent party, base in local government, not as obviously ideological as the big two parties, with more of a focus on supporting a good, local candidate and campaigning on local issues
UKIP may have developed this recently, but before its support was based on people wanting to cast an anti-EU vote in EU Parliamentary elections, nothing at all to do with good local candidates and local campaigning.
As for “not obviously ideological”, well, as we have seen, the Conservative MPs contemplating moving to UKIP are those on the extreme right-wing economic ideological side of the party. The main funder of UKIP shares this ideology, and shifted support from the Conservatives to UKIP because he thought the Conservatives weren’t ideologically right-wing enough. If you look at serious anti-EU discussion among the elite types who are really driving UKIP, you will find that their main concerns about the EU are around the way it stands in the way of their ideological extremist ideas of how this country should be.
UKIP may portray a different image to attract the support of people who feel angry at the way this country is going, but how ironic it is that the reason many at the bottom end of the wealth and social scale in this country feel angry comes down to all three main political parties shifting economically rightwards. In giving support to UKIP as a “protest” about the main political parties, people are actually voting for a more extreme form of what they are protesting about.
Yes, UKIP may have attracted local activists who think of it as some sort of party of the people against the political and ideological elite. But they have been fooled. How those who really run UKIP think about them is shown by the way Carswell was recruited and this by-election things set up and the local UKIP PPC thrown out without him even knowing what was happening until it happened. This indicates how it would be if UKIP ever were to gain serious power – its leader would show contempt to its members, ignore what they say and do and what motivates them, and use his personal domination and media influence and general view of the media in this county that political parties are all about their leaders to force through his own right-wing ideological views.
So not at all like the Liberal Democrats. Uh, wait a bit …
Sorry – I meant Robin Lynn, not Jonathan Brown.
Denis – you are absolutely right. Nick completely forgot that Liberals should be on the side of the governed; even when they are in government. We went into 2010 promising to “Change politics for good.” Nick decided he liked politics just as it was.
Denis 4th Sep ’14 – 10:07am
Your interpretation of what Robin Lynn commented was thaI he -“is saying is that he is fed up with the the constant harking back by many posters on LDV to what they seem to regard as the halcyon days when we could luxuriate in permanent opposition and not have to worry about what it is really like to play an important part in governing the country. ”
That is of course an entirely misconceived view. The halcyon days you refer to were characterised by Liberal Democrats exercising real power in big cities. Liverpool, Newcastle, Bristol, etc.
I myself was a majority leader of a London Borough with a population, budget and local economy bigger than many member states of the UN.
We also shared power in Scotland over two parliaments and Wales over one. These were not oppositionist losers, we were winners, we were in power putting Liberal ideas into practice.
Whilst Nick Clegg was busy as a ski instructor we were building the party and exercising real political power with popular local support.
Robin may want to clarify if that is really what he’s saying.
@ Matthew Huntbach
” UKIP may have developed this recently, but before its support was based on people wanting to cast an anti-EU vote in EU Parliamentary elections, nothing at all to do with good local candidates and local campaigning.”
Always find it strange to read one of our political opponents waxing lyrical on what UKIP is all about . It is the political analysis equivalent of a BBC weather man sitting on the beach in the Canary Islands, sweeping the northern horizon for cumulus nimbus with binoculaurs, and faxing the 24 hour weather forecast for the UK back home.
As a kipper I know very little about the internal machinations of the LIbDems. However if I was to base my opinion on published material as you seem to be doing with regard to UKIP, then I suppose I could claim the LIbDems are inherent liars as per their tuition fees pledge. I could claim they are misogynistic with their low incidence of women in senior positions, and that they have issues over race as their lack of ethnic representation in senior post is glaringly obvious. I could also state the party would appear to attract a disproportianate number of those with, shall we say sexual preferences and low moral values outside of normal sociatel bahviour,
Do I think that is representative of the whole the party….. I hope not!!
I am a Kipper, I was probably a Kipper before UKIP existed, and I have always campaigned in the Labour heartlands.
I campaigned against the closure of British Shipbuilders as a deliberate policy of the Conservative government at the time, as part of an EU policy of reducing shipbuilding capacity seemingly in the UK, whilst allowing expansion in other parts of the EU. I campaigned against the destruction of our fishing fleets and our fishing grounds as they were handed over to the EU, whilst at the same time Spain was getting EU support to build new fishing trawlers. I have campaigned recently on the destruction of our alluminium smelting industry in Northumberland and Anglesey on the altar of carbon taxation and the industry destroying Climate Change Act imposed on us by the Lib/Lab/Con. The list is endless.
The seeds for a UKIP have lain dormant for many decades, only germinating when Maastricht the ultimate treachery was signed without our authority.
Keep on believing you understand UKIP, and are somehow an authority on us. Ignorance in our political opponents is our most powerful weapon, and is truly the gift that keeps on giving. UKIP is a state of mind not a political club, you can’t defeat it, because it resides to some extent in nearly all the people.
Douglas Carswell calls it nativism, an intellectual version of a dirty word, and it is growing because of your neglect amongst others of good and listening government, in preference to imposing party idealogical positions against the majority.
You are simply getting your reward, by a now empowered people.
@Raddiy
“UKIP is a state of mind not a political club, you can’t defeat it, because it resides to some extent in nearly all the people.”
– What is this state of mind?
– In what percentage of the UK population does it reside?
– To what extent does it reside in those people?
– Are the overwhelming majority of people who don’t vote for UKIP unaware that they a) have this state of mind b) that most people they know also don’t know they posses it and c) how do they know how significant this state of mind is to them?
Yay! Gary Scott for Clacton! Can we rush through his PPC approval?
No? Well, I didn’t think so, really. There are huge barriers to entry, even in our party, which are being continuously strengthened by the Westminster (school!) elite.
@ ATF – I don’t vote UKIP and disagree with many of their policies. But I am concerned about excessive immigration, both within and outwith the EU, about the problems in Calais, and boat people from North Africa and elsewhere. So, perhaps this state of mind resides even in some Lib Dem members? Perhaps, instead of rubbishing UKIP we could turn our attention to actually addressing the problems (that they merely pretend to want to address) in a liberal and constructive way, preserving the hard won gains in civil liberties and human rights which might otherwise go down the pan with our exit from Europe?
@GPPurnell
There is a danger in thinking that any such issues equates to a UKIP state of mind, there is a UKIP response to issues but concern about the issue itself does not belong to any one political party.
The examples of southern Europe, Calais and North Africa are ones of human tragedy and deprevation. They require international effort to promote and strengthen local economies, a long-standing Liberal response to the problem in line with a key Liberal value – strong, free countries promote peace.
As a democrat, I certainly don’t rubbish UKIP or their voters. Their vote in May has given them a mandate and each vote is equal. Just as I want a LibDem vote to be respected, I want the same for a UKIP vote. I believe that a UKIP vote is dangerously wrong, but Liberal tolerance must prevail. But I will question statements I feel need elaboration and which I don’t think are born out.
Ukipper in peace here. Don’t worry, however much I despise the Lib Dems’ policies, particularly on immigration and the EU, I haven’t come here to troll or insult you guys. Most ‘kippers are more mature than that!
I don’t think Roger Lord was in this for UKIP, I feel he was in it for himself. You can understand him feeling aggrieved for the way he was pushed out in Clacton, but you wouldn’t go from UKIP to the Lib Dems who are effectively “the anti-UKIP” if you were serious about support for Eurosceptisism or borders based on quality control as opposed to the current free movement within Europe. Watching Lord speak, he seemed like an amateur and struggled to think of what to say. Compare that to Carswell who seems like a good, confident speaker who’s passionate about what he says and comes across as very electable unlike Lord.
Above we see the beginnings of the transformation of UKIP from a genuine, if problematic and reactionary, popular movement into a slick, managed PR operation on the New Labour/Saatchi Tory model.
Oh well, what a pity, never mind.
On Ukipper’s point, I’d say its perfectly possible to be essentially Lib Dem in all but a few issues, which you might for whatever reason decide are the most important ones *right now*, and thus move over to UKIP for the time being. I would never do it, but people might.
And kicking out voices who are genuine and real, albiet untrained and maybe not hugely electable, in favour of slick operators like Carswell is part of what has made the main parties so alienating.
@Ukipper
Could you perhaps ask Nigel to publically say the LibDems are the anti-UKIP? I think that would be quite welcome!
I think the case of Roger Lord is a prime example of when an out of touch establishment run by public school boys, who have spent decades as professional politicians and not in real jobs, feel they can ignore ,push aside and leave local communities powerless as they dictate what should and shouldn’t happen from an office in Westminster. 🙂
Raddiy
As a kipper I know very little about the internal machinations of the LIbDems. However if I was to base my opinion on published material as you seem to be doing with regard to UKIP,
I am basing my opinion on the fact that Douglas Carswell was a right-wing Tory, as are all the other MPs considering defecting. He wants the economic policies of Margaret Thatcher but in a much more extreme form. He has written a book stating this. These economic policies are what has caused the destruction of industry that you lament. You and others who have joined UKIP thinking it is some sort of party of the people have been fooled very deeply. If you still can’t see that even after one of your number was pushed out to make way for this ultra-Thatcherite, well…
Ukipper
Watching Lord speak, he seemed like an amateur and struggled to think of what to say.
In other words, he’s a pleb, an ordinary bloke, someone who isn’t in this with a slick political agenda and trained up by ad-men to push the party line.
Compare that to Carswell who seems like a good, confident speaker who’s passionate about what he says and comes across as very electable unlike Lord.
In other words, he’s part of the Westminster elite. A well-trained politician, someone who can fool the plebs because he can talk nonsense and make it sound convincing, thanks to his background.
And there we have it. I have been lambasted by “kippers” boasting that they are ordinary people, they have some sort of hot-line to the common man, whereas I, being a Liberal Democrat, am some sort of elite type, whose view of those ordinary people is like someone looking on from afar with binoculars. Now we have a “kipper” coming along and saying, oh no, being an MP is not for ordinary types, they are not electable. Oh, no, no, no, to be electable you must be part of the Westminster public school fat cat elite.
You are very easily misled, aren’t you, “kippers”? Very gullible people, that’s obvious. Which was my point.
“Gary is not putting himself forward for the by-election”?????????????
WRONG. He was selected last night.
“So, perhaps this state of mind resides even in some Lib Dem members? Perhaps, instead of rubbishing UKIP we could turn our attention to actually addressing the problems”
This is very interesting because support for UKIP is very definitely a state of mind. It is (surely?) part of a wider contempt for the established political parties, which encompasses the desire for Scottish independence, and even Lib Dem grass roots contempt for its own leaders with their snouts in the trough of office.
As for a desire to control immigration I would contend that this “state of mind” exists within many voters for the established parties, but that none of these parties can ever “actually address the problem.” It requires an exit from the European Union, no ifs and no buts.
And support for the European Union has been an article of faith for the political elite pretty much since the late sixties. Even Thatcher campaigned for yes in the 1975 referendum and as PM took us deeper and deeper in.
The UKIP “state of mind” comes to those who are sick and tired of our politicians’ failings and impotence.
But only UKIP offers the policy that would restore their power and potency. The restoration of our national sovereignty.
Of course having regained that power which they surrendered they need to exercise it wisely, but let’s cross that bridge when we come to it.
“Not because of their anti-Europeanism or their immigrant bashing”
Wishing to control immigration is not “immigrant bashing.”
The conflation of these two quite discrete concepts, is, if I may say, disgraceful.
agreed.