This is the fifth and final part of an interview which took place during the Party’s Spring Conference in York. Events have somewhat overtaken it, as you will realise when you get to the end… The first part of the interview can be found here, the second part here, the third here and the fourth here.

As I’m sat opposite a prominent Scottish Lib Dem, I must ask you about the recent call by the SNP for a second Scottish independence referendum. What are your views on independence for Scotland and is Theresa May right to refuse to hold another referendum?

Scottish independence is not in the interest of Scotland, nor is it in the interest of the rest of the UK. From an economic perspective, the case for independence stacks up far less than it did in 2014, and it didn’t even stack up then. Just look at the way the oil price has declined. The concept of their previous suggestion was that what was on offer was being an independent country within the EU with our biggest trading partner also being within the EU, and therefore still being in a single market with the UK. Now the suggestion is that we leave the single market with our biggest trading partner. On so many levels, the economic case is now far worse.

I think it also begs the question of whether you are in the business of creating division or being more open. There are people who support Scottish independence and really do believe that it’s the right way forward. They are entitled to that view. I grew up in Scotland, my dad’s originally a Londoner, I studied at a London university, my sister married an Englishman and lived for a few years in Manchester but is now back in Glasgow. Just in the microcosm of my family, the cross UK links are really clear and that’s multiplied time after time across Scotland and the rest of the UK. On an emotional level, why separate? We would need a good reason to do that. Emotionally, I feel British and Scottish. I don’t want to have to divide those parts of my identity. As I say, I appreciate some other people will feel very differently about it.

My view on whether Scottish independence is the right thing or not is, if anything, more emphatic now than it was at the 2014 referendum, where I campaigned vigorously against it. At 67 percent, my constituency had one of the highest ‘no’ votes in the country. I believe it was the highest turnout ever in an election. 91 percent of people from East Dunbartonshire voted in the referendum. It was wrong in 2014, and it still wrong now.

It doesn’t even make sense to have another referendum on independence. It’s only been three years since the last one which, let’s remember, was a ‘once in a generation’ event. And to hold one while we will be in the middle of a turmoil in terms of the UK, from both a Scottish business perspective and for the people in Scotland to make a clear choice, I do not think it is sensible.

I disagree with Theresa May on a huge number of things, but she said now is not the time, and I agree that now is not the time for another referendum in Scotland. There is no suggestion that the people of Scotland even want another referendum. Support for a second referendum right now is even lower than the percentage of people who actually want independence, which suggests that it’s a political ploy by the SNP and it’s one that was predicted. It’s not surprising as my colleagues in Scotland have known that Nicola Sturgeon was about to make this case, and she’s deliberately made a suggestion which she knows Theresa May cannot agree to because the time scale she suggested is so obviously not feasible. Theresa May’s response was entirely what the SNP were expecting, but in her speech to the Scottish National Party Conference Nicola Sturgeon gets to announce that there will be another independence referendum, and she obviously received a standing ovation. Let’s remember that her membership are chomping at the bit for another referendum, so it’s working to their political narrative.

I’m sure you, and every other prominent Lib Dem in the country, have been asked many times for your views on Trump and Brexit. And, if I can be bold enough to say, most of your colleagues broadly say the same thing when asked about the two. So I want to throw a curve ball at you and ask you about, perhaps, more brighter pastures. What are your thoughts on the remarkable rise of Justin Trudeau and the Liberals in Canada? What message does this send out to Liberals, both with a large and a small L, in this country and around the world?

Who hasn’t wished they were Canadian! He has been brilliant on many different issues in his remarks and, of course, for a very long time in Canada the Liberals were out of it. It reminds us that when things feel really bleak, things do actually change in politics. There is an understandable feeling of danger. The world feels more volatile and dangerous, particularly with the election of Trump, than it has for a long time, but it’s not inevitable that we will follow down this path.

Total doom and gloom is not the only way to see this situation. Just look at the number of new members who have joined our party. I was chatting to one fabulous woman earlier today. Wendy Chamberlain joined us after the election result in 2015. I remember her speech at the Scottish Conference. She said that she had always been a Lib Dem supporter, but she had suddenly realised that we needed more than just her vote. There were, and still are, many people with that view – some have been long term Lib Dems and some have come to us from other parties, including both Labour and Conservative. Brexit and the aftermath, in particular, have led them to search for some kind of rational and sensible response that will actually defend liberal values. People might not have felt they were very exercised before because it’s very easy in a society that is generally liberal to take it for granted and forget that these are hard fought for things. The new members coupled with that energy is something that’s a cause for real optimism. Look at different countries around the world, think the recent Netherlands election, and it’s not a default that the populists will always win. In fact, Clinton got more votes than Trump.

In different countries around the world, liberals are fighting back. It’s important that this happens because otherwise we will end up with a very hostile, protectionist and inward facing world, and we will lose the benefits of an internationalist approach.

So you see Justin Trudeau as a shining light?

Justin Trudeau is really inspiring and it’s great. In her own way, I find Angela Merkel incredibly inspiring too. The very strong comments she made about refugees and the way in which she responded to the election of Trump was a big positive for me. There are people around the world who show a different way of doing it. We shouldn’t lose heart.

As you are no doubt aware, we are at the Lib Dem Conference in York. What are you involved in here?

I spoke in a debate earlier today about the situation in Scotland and how that plays into the wider Brexit negotiations and the danger of nationalism. It’s important that people south of the border recognise that what is happening north of the border is nationalism and has the negative things that go along with that. I am speaking at an event this evening about social justice in a time of deficits. I had a meeting at lunchtime on how to make sure we get a more representative parliamentary party. I’ve been catching up with friends and colleagues too.

We have a real opportunity in 2020. I like to look for silver linings and one is that by losing so many of our MPs at the last election, next time round we will, hopefully, have many new ones. Therefore, we need to make sure that the incumbency problem is gone. We also need to ensure that we take the opportunity to stop being an all-white parliamentary party in the Commons and, although it’s great we now have Sarah Olney there, one out of nine women in the House is clearly not good enough. In 2020, we have a real opportunity to elect a gender balanced and ethnically diverse team.

Do you have any ambitions to return to frontline politics?

I was in politics for a decade. In that time, I learned to never say never.

You were part of a national Lib Dem cull at the last election. What are you up to these days?

I run my own consulting business, Equal Power Consulting. The business’s primary aim is to help organisations to reap the benefits of workplace diversity and achieve the change that’s needed in order to do so.
I am also writing a book called Equal Power. Equal Power is about the inequality of power in society and between men and women, and what we can all do about it. I am nearing the end of the first draft, which will be published in January or very early February next year.

Those two things take up most of my time, but I also chair a charity called Maternity Action, which campaigns for the rights of pregnant women and new parents while also providing advice and support through the telephone.

* Rob May is a Political History PhD student and Lib Dem activist.