As soon as Boris Johnson started speaking, I was infuriated.
Nicola Sturgeon manages to get a signer there for every briefing. And she does hers live.
Boris’s was pre-recorded. Why not have a signer in the room with him so that, whatever channel you watch, you can understand what is being said?
It’s not the first time I’ve been infuriated by his government over the past week. The misjudged, mixed messaging. One minute people were doing great for obeying the guidance, the next they were getting too lazy at home. Then the briefing that lockdown was going to be lifted on Monday leading to a whole clutch of “we’re being set free” headlines. It’s not what you need in the middle of the greatest crisis we have faced in generations. People need to understand exactly what they need to do.
That’s why the new slogan is so terrible. Nobody knows what “stay alert” means in practical terms. Everyone will tell you something different. If you had something like stay 2m apart, wash your hands, wear a mask in confined spaces, you know exactly what to do. Not only that, but when the other UK governments hear about it on in the press, it’s clearly not been well discussed.
So how have senior Liberal Democrats reacted to the PM’s speech? So far we have been asking careful questions about issues like care homes, PPE and testing. I sense a more critical tone now.
Ed said that the PM’s statement had more confusion that clarity:
.@EdwardJDavey Changing the message at this critical stage "risks what people have fought so hard for. The Prime Minister has not provided the country with any evidence or justification for this change. Instead, he risks creating more confusion than clarity…" pic.twitter.com/4s3V3Iif2m
— Lib Dem Media Team (@LibDemPress) May 10, 2020
What we really needed were tighter instructions and assurances about protecting those who are physically and economically vulnerable, following the lockdown extension
— Layla Moran 🔶🕊️ (@LaylaMoran) May 10, 2020
5 year olds are notoriously great at social distancing… https://t.co/AIufvINGcx
— Tim Farron (@timfarron) May 10, 2020
At the heart of what we should do to move out of #lockdown must be people’s health#economy cannot be seen as separate from health. A second #peak will hurt economy even more
The R number is key, but our failure to test + trace adequately leaves us guessing on a wing and prayer
— Wera Hobhouse MP 🔶 🇺🇦 (@Wera_Hobhouse) May 10, 2020
Confusing change of headline message, launched together with confusing address by the PM. Many people will be wondering if they're meant to go back to work tomorrow and how they'll get there. And when can my mum see my kids? Clear comms essential in a crisis!
— Munira Wilson MP 🇺🇦 (@munirawilson) May 10, 2020
This is the first time we’ve seen divergence between England and the other nation states of the UK.
As liberals, we should welcome this, given that we get what devolution means. We should respect the devolution settlements that give different parts of the UK the powers to do what is right for them.
But that means that all the governments have to clearly show that the decisions they make are governed by the science.
Willie Rennie said tonight:
We need to see the evidence and hear from the scientists as to what has changed. The sudden change from the Prime Minister to abandon the stay at home message and to encourage people to go to work needs a full explanation if the public are to trust him and follow him.
The route map to gradually release the lockdown has some merit but the milestones need further scrutiny.
The First Minister has set out the differences with the guidance in England but she and her scientists need to explain whether Scotland is at greater risk, which justifies a different message. We have benefited from clear messages so far but that is about to change. The First Minister must now explain why this is necessary.
People have sacrificed so much to get this far so it is incumbent upon us to get the next stage right. We need a rapid expansion of the testing capacity which is necessary for the next stage.
* Caron Lindsay is Editor of Liberal Democrat Voice and blogs at Caron's Musings. You can find her on Bluesky at caronmlindsay.bsky.social
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41 Comments
Did people miss the fact that more details will be given to parliament tomorrow?
Is common sense a thing of the past?
Sure, more details to Parliament tomorrow, but in the meantime he told people in manufacturing to go back to work tomorrow – not much detail there, and if that were insisted upon then my business will have to go into liquidation. We have lost 85% of our turnover and that won’t come back tomorrow. There is no point in having my workforce there sitting around doing nothing except putting me at risk. I understand the problems the government has, but they have not thought this through very well.
In terms of Johnson’s performance before the camera this evening, could we imagine how Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May even might have carried this out? He pitched it about right, using simple direct language. As for Keir Starmer’s reaction, I thought his immediate response was mean spirited. Whether he was using an autocue or not, Johnson’s performance seemed quite slick, articulate and sincere.
In terms of content it was necessarily vague, at times even unrealistic. Going back to work tomorrow? Has anybody told the bosses? I’m not sure what being “alert” actually means but I reckon that it’s up to me whether, as a 76 year old without apparently any underlying health issues, I need to keep self isolating. If eventually Year One students are allowed back to school, will my wife (72) and I be able to resume our school run duties once a week? More information, please.
I agree with Mr Rennie’s comment in the final paragraph. We have come so far that allowing the virus more leeway at this stage would be criminal. However he is right to ask why Scotland’s position differs from England’s. Mind you, that’s surely what devolution is all about.
So, stay safe, stay indoors if you feel safer there and wear a mask when you go out if it gives you more confidence.
Agree about the need for a signer, Caron…. yet another example of Boris Johnson’s broad brush shallow incompetence.
Testing and PPE failures have more actual significance….. and how can it be the UK’s figures are terrible compared to Germany, Denmark & Greece ? Only Trump is worse than the UK……… and Hancock unnecessarily tetchy with Rosena Allin-Khan…. an A&E doctor just off a twelve hour shift….. and after his sleight of hand with the testing figures.
IMHO Nicola has done well in the last few weeks, and very careful not to rise to his bait.
PS Where have the Lib Dem MP’s and the press office been for the last two months ? Are they on furlough ?
David Raw
You are seriously comparing UK figures with Denmark & Greece???
Willie Rennie is right “The route map to gradually release the lockdown has some merit but the milestones need further scrutiny.”
Germany and South Korea both appear to be experiencing an uptick in infections after relaxing containment measures. Perhaps am increase is inevitable, but it needs to be seen to be controllable to maintain confidence.
Tonyhil’s point is important that many businesses will face a dilemma in maintaining a workforce without furlough support while operating far below capacity. It would mean only a skeleton operation for many until a viable level of demand returns.
David Raw
Deaths per 1m pop (latest figures)
Belgium 747
Spain 569
Italy 505
UK 469
France 404
Belgium & France are comparable with the UK as they report deaths in ALL settings.
Seeing as we have been remembering VE Day, it seems to me that BoJo’s pronouncement is worthy of that piece of WW2 graffiti:
Be alert
The country needs lerts
@ Margaret, Don’t forget the other one, Margaret. “Careless talk costs lives”.
It applies to BoJo. The self-styled Churchill reincarnation should consider the war time words of Lloyd George, “Too late in moving here. Too late in arriving there. Too late in coming to this decision. Too late in starting with enterprises. Too late in preparing….. It is always too late, or too little, or both. And that is the road to disaster.”
No coincidence Denmark (population the size of Scotland) has had only 529 deaths……. They went into lock down 12 days before the (too late) UK.
Not to forget Greece, population twice the size of Scotland and Denmark, 150 deaths after an early lockdown : “Greeks marvel at Britain’s Covid chaos as their lockdown lifts”
…www.theguardian.com 1 day ago – Emerging resilient after a tough, early lockdown, Greece looks forward to a summer tourist season beginning in July.
Anyway, over the next few weeks we will learn just how much unemployment and how many permanently closed business the great lockdown has caused. If you support it, then you have to accept it as a price worth paying. You also have to accept that you can’t go back in time and start it earlier. The longer it goes on the more damage it will do. Arguing that we can stay closed down longer without even bigger consequence is a bit of a stretch.
Scotland seems to have a higher R value than England at the moment maybe due to a higher elderly population then England? But the message was confusing, go to work if you can’t but stay 2 maintain social distancing, I think most people will stay at home. As for schools, good luck getting 4 to 5 years to socially distance and year 6, they already got their places in secondary schools. Year 2 to 5 which need to go back.. Aren’t.
David Raw
Where are Greece’s tourists going to come from if everyone is too scared to leave their homes and what is the point of going if they have to socially distance when they get there. The Tourist trade is dead. Greece just hasn’t realised it yet.
John O 10th May ’20 – 8:47pm………..Did people miss the fact that more details will be given to parliament tomorrow?…………Is common sense a thing of the past?
If that is the case why was it necessary to make a speech 24 hours before giving details?
Listening to local radio this morning every single defender of Johnson’s speech came up with a different interpretation of what ‘Be Alert’ meant and, in between the ‘umms and errs’, emphsised that further details would come out in the following days…When asked specific questions about ‘social distancing’, ‘over 70’s’, etc. it seems nothing has changed.
I’m struggling to understand why 7pm on a Sunday evening was the time to tell people to go back to work today, etc. without any idea of how?
@ Glenn…….. The issue is about the correlation of early lock down and the death rate, though some Greeks, like some Lib Dems, may suffer from over optimism about future prospects.
” Stay alert ”
” Take back control ”
The lack of meaning is the point. You can think it means whatever you like.
@expats
“I’m struggling to understand why 7pm on a Sunday evening was the time to tell people to go back to work today, etc. without any idea of how?”
You didn’t expect these people to have a proper plan did you?
Nonconformistradical 11th May ’20 – 10:00am…..@expats, “I’m struggling to understand why 7pm on a Sunday evening was the time to tell people to go back to work today, etc. without any idea of how?”….You didn’t expect these people to have a proper plan did you?……………….
Not really! but Cummings should’ve reminded Johnson of the Biblical proverb.. “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt?”
Let’s face it this government’s ” take back control” mantra has been turned on it’s head by this virus crisis and they are floundering with an adequate response to it. Not quite how they perceived our future!
David Raw
The correlation is not between early lockdown. It’s more about how the data is collected. Britain, like America, doesn’t do a lot of testing and often leaves COD up to the discretion of doctors, which inflates the figures because the symptoms are common to a lot of other illnesses. Flu, pneumonia, heart disease, cancers, and so on can’t have all disappeared so they are more than likely are being mingled in with coronavirus rates. If the spread was started in December, then it was almost certainly widespread before lockdowns started. The US has a lower death rate per million than Britain or a lot of Europe because any figure has got to start from the understanding that it is a nation of 328,000,000. To have death rates comparable to Italy or Britain or France they would have to have hundreds of thousands of deaths. Sweden hasn’t locked down and has a lower death rate than the UK, Belarus says it has about 200-300 hundred dead, South Korea didn’t lock down(opting instead for tracing), Germany (kept a lot of its industries going) and so on. For that matter China (the origin of the virus and the inspiration for the response) did not instigate a country wide lockdown. It isolated one area and left almost everywhere else open. The assertion that lockdowns are universal or have huge impact is more an article of faith than anything else.
Glenn 11th May ’20 – 10:20am……..The correlation is not between early lockdown. It’s more about how the data is collected. Britain, like America, doesn’t do a lot of testing and often leaves COD up to the discretion of doctors, which inflates the figures because the symptoms are common to a lot of other illnesses………………
I’d suggest that, instead of inflating the figures, it diminishes them..A far more accurate assessment (with the exception of detailed testing of every death) would be the ‘number of deaths for this time of year above the last ten year average’ .. Using those figures gives over twice the official deaths..
Even that might be an understatement as last winter/spring has been exceptionally mild and free of seasonal flu, etc….
Spain gave bus travellers masks so that they could go to work.Industry continued. If both health and the economy matter tactics,strategy can be put into place to get the country running again.
Johnson comments imply you (individuals) make the decision what to do cos I/Govnt want to pass the buck. Wait and see what He says Monday.
Perhaps we should look at past Govt attempts at slogans. Keep Calm and Carry On. Bit confusing. Work through the bombs. Send the kids to school during an air raid. Are people so stupid. Do Lib Dems think that people cannot understand what is required of them? Or do Lib Dems think that the state should lead them by the hand? You must remember that at the heart of Liberalism is responsibility. Don’t treat them like fools.
Expats
Operations have been cancelled, on going treatments have been scaled back and wards emptied. Also a lot of elderly patients we transferred to care homes with nothing like the same medical expertise as hospitals. In other words, treatments that keep people alive were curtailed or reduced. As I keep pointing out other illnesses can’t have all disappeared and a lot of them have very similar symptoms. If the treatment is cut back for one thing to fight another then there will be more deaths overall. The government took action to scale back on operations and consultations, fully expecting hospitals to be overwhelmed. This is not without its own consequences.
A minor quibble. The decisions of government should not be governed by “the science”. They should be informed by advice from scientists.
“Did people miss the fact that more details will be given to parliament tomorrow?”
Whatever happened to the idea that we are a parliamentary democracy, in which major policy decisions should first be debated in Parliament, and altered if not agreed?
This populist indiscipline is why epidemics have second waves.
Andrew Marr noted that the cabinet is bitterly divided over the virus policy. The right wing press jumped on a cabinet leak that lockdown would be over this week. Johnson is pig in the middle and somewhat incomprehensible. The Murdoch press would seemingly prefer to have lost Johnson and replaced with someone like Rsab.
“The right wing press jumped on a cabinet leak…”
It’s not really about left and right. There is plenty of support on this site too, for fewer restrictions. There is widespread sentiment that we can’t go on like this. The economy will collapse. On the other hand the death rate could head up again to close to 1000 per day and that means we’ll be talking of 250,000 deaths, minimum, by the time it’s all over.
We will need to get a well established system of test, track and trace in place before there is any significant further loosening of the policy. That’s going to involve an element of compulsion in testing and the necessary quarantining of anyone carrying the virus. This will likely present difficult ethical considerations. What if we find perpetual carriers of the virus who are asymptomatic? I’d say they’d have to go into quarantine indefinitely but many will no doubt disagree.
Peter Martin,
Businessman and Scout leader Steve Walsh https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-super-spreader-news-steve-walsh-brighton-uk-france-singapore-a9328776.html
is probably not going to be too happy as being classed as a ‘typoid Mary.’ and put in indefinite quarantine. We need to understand if the virus can still be spread by recovered patients and if so, how to kill it off.
@PeterMartin- Marr used the expression doves and hawks rather than left and right .
“This will likely present difficult ethical considerations.” [Peter Martin 11th May ’20 – 1:00pm].
Perhaps people should read David Selbourne’s book “The Principle of Duty”; the need is to move away from the culture of dutiless rights that many so call liberals adhere to, to one where people appreciate, if they want to live in a civil society, they have duties to maintain that society that at times will impinge on their concept of personal rights and freedoms.
The act and need will be to balance the needs of society with the authoritarian tendencies of political parties and the governments they form.
Peter Martin: “There is widespread sentiment that we can’t go on like this. The economy will collapse. On the other hand the death rate could head up again to close to 1000 per day and that means we’ll be talking of 250,000 deaths, minimum, by the time it’s all over.”
The countries which avoided this dilemma are those who locked down fast and hard. They didn’t have bombastic bully-boy leaders who boasted about wrestling a virus to the ground. They had rational leaders who understood that you can’t trifle with pandemics.
Having rashly delayed starting lockdown, Johnson is now rashly lifing it too early. He didn’t listen to the Italians, who screamed at him that he had the time to avoid the catastrophe that had happened in Lonbardy, only to be ignored. Now he isn’t listening to the Germans, who have found that even their much higher level of caution proves not to be enough. Once an irresponsible Brexiteer recklessly disdainful of foreigners, always an irresponsible Brexiteer fool.
Peter Martin has tried hard to describe the dilemma in a balanced way, but I don’t think he has quite got it right. First, a shortened lockdown will not save the economy, if it ensures a second wave and a permanent pandemic. Secondly, “250,000 deaths, minimum” could well prove to be something of an understatement. What if, like the common cold coronavirus, Covid-19 turns out to cause repeated infections, and like AIDS, no vaccine can be developed? What if “herd immunity” does not even exist? The only certain way to preserve our civilisation is to concentrate on driving out the virus.
Johnson must go.
David Allen
Not true. There is no universal response to the virus. North Korea did not instigate a nationwide lock down. China only locked down one region. Spain/Italy/Franc/UK have more deaths per million than the USA. Sweden has less than us and Belarus as less than Sweden. But if having Dominic Raab in control of when you can get a haircut makes you feel safe, well………
I mean South Korea . I have no idea what North Korea did. Probably something unpleasant involving telling people when they can get a haircut or see a relative.
Taiwan didn’t lockdown either and nor has Japan. IMO, the West has mostly overreacted based on faulty alarmist models and because it mistakes the police state run by the CCP for a coolly logical technocracy, unencumbered by social niceties (a bit like pod people in old movies) , rather than a dictatorship with a people problem. In late in 2018 and early in 2019 the CCP run China was burning and burying livestock alive over African swine flu.
Glenn
32,065 currently deceased with COVID-19
160,000 people currently still infected with COVID
The proportion of the population in the uk who has had COVID preliminary results have said 4% overall and 10% in London.
The death rate seems to be around 1.21%
If no lockdown had occurred we would have been looking at death rates of around 798,600
Those are shocking statistics, far worse than Spanish flu and civilian deaths of WW1 & WW2 Combined
And that is assuming that people who develop Covid-19 don’t go on to catch it again, which is to early to tell yet.
It has been 18 years since Sars and still no vaccine was found to date.
If you truly cannot understand why the Government has taken the painful decisions that it has, then you need have a really good think about what the country would do if we saw death rates like those and how the public would have reacted. The NHS would have collapsed, confidence would collapse, people would be petrified to leave their houses and would reevaluate what is important to them in their life, spending time with loved ones, or continuing on with the obsession with consumer spending… When faced with those sort of choices I think people would choose their loved ones and say screw their jobs and the economy.. There would be no economy left.
The Government is doing all it can to get us through these turbulent uncertain and unsafe times with the minimal loss of life and confidence whilst providing a footing to get the economy moving again at the earliest opportunity.
I am not saying that the Government has not made mistakes, I think the Government was negligent at the start of all this and it is struggling to articulate the message now, but I do not see what other choice the Government has and I don’t know what anyone else would have done differently.
At least from Wednesday people are no longer under “house arrest” and can go out as often and for as long as they like and bit by bit more retail will open up with more socialising as it becomes safer. But there is still a long way to go with this Virus and there are going to be changed to our ways of life for many years to come and the sooner we get used to that and the sooner we become more innovative to get the economy moving again and making all our lives better, the better it will be for all of us, just a little different from what we have known before
Matt
We don’t know how many deaths there would be. Models are models. They’re a theoretic projection. What we do know is that not all countries did the same thing or count things in the same way. As I pointed out Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Belarus, Sweden and even China did not introduce country wide lockdowns. We, Spain, Italy and France did. The latter group have much higher death rates. But if you want Matt Hancock, Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson to tell you when to breath in or out that’s up to you.
I am not going to change my position. Enjoy your house arrest.
@ Glenn “I am not going to change my position. Enjoy your house arrest.”
Hope you didn’t nip out on the QT to visit a night club, Glenn.
12 May BBC News, “In South Korea, some 101 people have now tested positive for the virus after a cluster outbreak linked to a nightclub district in the capital, Seoul. The new spike comes after the government began relaxing social-distancing rules”.
David Raw
I actually suspect I’m stricter about sticking to the rules than most of the people claiming to support them. I view present day Britain as a strange repressive country with weird customs that I have to abide by because not doing so may upsets the peculiar locals or even attract the attention of their bizarre behaviour enforcing police.
As I keep saying, I follow all the rules to the letter. I just think they are wrong and verge on fear driven superstition.
Re South Korea
A whole 101 people are they dead? I hear viruses are everywhere on everything. We must live our lives in protective suits, never touch anyone we don’t already live with and scrub our skin with wire brushes and antiseptics. Unclean, unclean.