Early reporting from the BBC says the vote on the Lisbon Treaty referendum was lost by 63 votes.
63 is of course the number of Liberal Democrat MPs.
That is not to say that the Lib Dems caused the vote to be lost. 13 Lib Dems did vote for a referendum; it’s not known if all Tories were present; and there will surely be a significant number of Labour MPs voting against the government.
But the repercussions for the Lib Dems are profound. Well-respected front-benchers have resigned Clegg’s shadow cabinet. How long-lasting the effects will be remains to be seen. Will our Euro 2009 campaign suffer? I imagine we’ll be talking about this all weekend at conference.
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24 Comments
I’m gob-smacked at the line taken by Nick Clegg on the EU treaty vote tonight. It plays into so many of the nonesensical stereotypes of the Lib-Dems. I voted for the other guys for leader, incidentally.
Why is it better to stand-up for what you really, really, really want (a referendum on EU membership), as a vote for the British equivalent of ‘mom, home and apple pie’, but should know, you’ll never, never ever get it. Are we pursuing an independent line merely for independence sake?
Are we fearful that a vote on the Lisbon treaty might be lost? Or are we determined strategically to try to find a middle-way between the two bigger parties.
If we want to beat either of them, we need to first challenge Britain’s unfair electoral system. If there’s a genuine strategic reason for Clegg’s stance that will do down one or other of the other two (preferably the Cons), I’d like to hear of it..
Who are the 13? Well done to them, at least there are a few Lib Dems with spines.
I have to say that I am utterly amazed and not a little disillusioned by the whole Liberal strategy over the EU treaty debate and vote.
Having watched a lot of the debate over the last fortnight the ONLY pro-European MP to come out of this well contrived white wash was Ken Clarke!!
I’m not sure what Nick Clegg’s genuine goals where from the stance he and those around him imposed on their fellow MPs, but I suspect that all that he has achieved is to appear popularist and naive.
I actually feel genuinely angry that our leadership could find itself so at odds with reality.
The in-out vote is of course popular in the general public but that was not what the EU treaty debate was about. It will be seen for what it was, a poorly contrived smoke screen and even worse, a deliberate act to ruin the debate and keep ‘project Europe’ on track without a mandate from the British public.
BBC now saying 16 rebelled. This could be over two successive votes.
“I voted for the other guys for leader, incidentally.”
No surely not…a stab in the back ALREADY?
Europe is a hot issue whoever is leader…
One is reminded of that Toby Young book ‘How to lose friends and alienate people’..
boldkevin – got a link for the 16?
Alex – Andrew Lansdale put it to Ed Davey on BBC News 24 that 16 rebelled, but Davey disputed that. However there was a second vote for a referendum tabled by a Labour MP.
What a complete shambles. A free vote would surely ahve avoided this?
Jo,
A STAB IN THE BACK? ALREADY, showing levels of paranoia comparable to the original coiners of that phrase — the anti-Weimar Nationalists of 1920s Germany? We all know where that led.
Presumably, many LibDem members voted for Chris Humhe for leader. Sorry, if identifying oneself on here is a threat to your ‘beloved leader’.
Now, if I was proclaiming my original alliegence from the HofC balcony, you might have a point. As it is I’m in Savannah, Georgia, and rarely visit England. Rest easy there, Jo.
David, a free vote ‘might’ have lead to a vote in favour of a referendum on the treaty.
I’ve no doubt Labour and our own leadership would have gone to whatever lengths to ensure that would never happen.
Perhaps even come up with a completely different referendum idea to muddy the water, or am I being too cynical?
Politics . . . being cynical? Usually principles are the work-a-day cover for the reality that counts most: ‘winning isn’t the only thing, it is everything’. We must win because our principles are the best available for Britain.
So anything that enables us to capitalize on the largest number of Lib(Dem) MPs since 1929 is a good thing (within the bounds of ethical standards). This, I fear, wasn’t one of those things. I’m sure Nick will do better in future. But this wasn’t his finest hour.
I totally agree with the line taken by the rebels….this has been a huge strategic blunder by the leadership. It is essentially gesture politics of the worst kind; I can just about see the logic of arguing for a referendum to be held on the question of membership; though of course you do run the risk that the pro-Europeans would lose.
The divisions in the Lib Dems have allowed the Tories to totally monopolise the democratic argument for a referendum. Sometimes in politics the options you are given are not the ideal ones that you would prefer and when that happens you have to take the course of action which best supports the end you want to achieve and in arguing for abstention the Lib Dem leadership have failed to realise that; prefering an outsiderish indifference.
Dr Leaver, you make a valid point in reminding us of the reality of politics ‘winning… is everything’.
But I suspect that this particular victory could have been achieved in a far more appropriate manner and although Mr Clegg needs to be allowed time to grow into the role I am left wondering whether this poorly judged stance was indeed his own doing or those around him.
Cheers, Gerrard, I’ve enjoyed reading your reflections. Onwards and upwards for the LibDems. Stay well.
Hey, I was at school with Martin Horwood. Go Cheltenham (sp?). That’s school in the American sense!!
Once again, this whole thing is about political game-playing with no benefit to the British people. The whole argument was a scam by the Tories to get at the government and we’ve been drawn in.
They knew that a referendum would be a comment on the EU as a whole (as Nick tried to indicate), and not on the treaty which few voters would have read or been able to understand. That was quite clear in the no-votes in European referenda on the original constitution and the reason why the treaty was drawn up instead.
Whatever the Tories say, the sensible ones amongst them (yes, there are some) didn’t really want a referendum because if the treaty was rejected it would threaten our Euro-membership and wreck our economy – and I bet that includes most of the Tory front bench.
Principles are important, promises are promises and democracy is our watchword but we have been caught in a major political beartrap which we set for ourselves in the 2005 manifesto.
Following the 3 LD spokesmen- resigning seems to be the only option.
On the vital issue of the EU scam taking place,I will follow their lead even more-so, and leave the party.
I’ve never been pro EU anyway..but this is a disgraceful result for ‘Liberal??-Democrats?? !!
I’ll try the English Democratic Party.
Erm, Dr Leaver…I’d be grateful if you left the second world war out of it cheers…
:@)
trevg, the only way to continue the improvement of our party and give it that much needed dose of common sense is to work from within.
The English Democratic Party which aligns itself with UKIP when it comes to matters on Europe and states as one of its policy aims to re-create “The Round Table” doesn’t appear to have much basis in the realities of the World today.
Gerrard: “to work from within” will no longer be an option when a federal vote in Europe is the only opt-out.
The horse has just bolted!
I’d rather have a round table than a ‘square head’ in the the euro ‘wall’!
At least a round table implies equality and open discussion..not diktacts.
Still ,in EuropeStadt, people will just get used to them -but a viable alternative for UK free thinkers is now vitally necessary.
There is obviously no single party in Westminster prepared to fight for them.
Note to Tory Euro-doubters..
Remember Heath started the ROT !!
The only way to impact the European project is to work from within a political party that has a future and influence over the House.
I actually have some sympathy with your point of view. I also believe that the concept of a Federal European Union of ‘member states’ is to be fought at every turn.
But the separatist views of your preferred party, UKIP and others would leave the UK isolated and with diminishing influence over World events.
Only through Unions can the UK take a leading role in the World and it is up to us to define that Union with Europe.
Given that the Empire slipped away we can no longer rely on romantic ideals of a better time.
I have never felt better about voting for Chris Huhne as leader.
In this day and age with increased globilisation the arguments of seperatists are frankly dated and that is the kindest thing that can be said about them.
Yes, the globilisation of capital and the consequential emergence of pan-national poilitical structures presents challenges but it also present’s exciting opportunities to progressives to bring change to a truly global level.
Harking back to bygone days is simply pointless and deeply reactionary, those days are never coming back again no matter how much the likes of UKIP might will it. The EU is in many ways deeply flawed but that doesnt mean the baby should be tossed overboard with the bathwater.
Whether people like it or not the nation state is becoming increaseingly outmoded and ill-equipped to deal with the world we live in. Instiutions like the EU, imperfect though they are, point the way forward.