Speaking on Radio Sheffield this morning (here, from 1h36m) Nick Clegg has said that he always had misgivings about Police and Crime Commissioners, and has said it is “now time to scrap this experiment”.
The Conservatives have to explain “why their promise that PCCs would attract independent members of the public have actually become a way for ex or failed politicians to have another lease of life, which is what we have seen in Shaun Wright and others like him.”
If you have the stomach to listen, Shaun Wright explains why he is hanging on to his job earlier (1h20m) in the same programme. It is quite extraordinary to hear, but let’s remember that this is not just his failure. His role and his failings in Rotherham were widely understood when Labour chose him as their candidate for PCC in 2012. The scale of the abuse and the suppression of the earlier reports have been clarified by Alexis Jay, but you could not have believed in 2012 that Rotherham Children’s services or the South Yorkshire Police had been doing a good job. The poor man thought he had got away with it.
And while this charade goes on, what other culpable people are keeping their heads down, and who is acting on the findings in the Jay report?
The main part of Nick’s interview was about devolution to the north of England and the creation of an economic powerhouse in the North. Toby Foster queries whether local politicians are good enough to exercise any extra powers – having watched some council meetings – and the answer is that some are and some aren’t, just like MPs.
* Joe Otten was the candidate for Sheffield Heeley in June 2017 and Doncaster North in December 2019 and is a councillor in Sheffield.
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14 Comments
Liberals are in favour of experiment but at some point the result has to be announced. I think we can all see that this experiment has not produced the results that we hoped for.
We are lucky in Staffordshire we have a good Commissioner, in this case a Tory. However he appears to be the exception rather than the rule.
Spot on, Nick. Policing should be left to professionals supervised by their local communities.
If he was against them, why did he vote for them?
Policing should be left to professionals supervised by their local communities.
Isn’t that exactly what PCCs are?
They are professionals — they are paid — and they are supervised by their local communities, who elect them and can elect someone else if they prefer.
Of course by ‘professional’ you may mean ‘with a professional background in law enforcement’, but if that’s what a local community wants then they can say so at the ballot box.
I mean, I don’t think there should be PCCs, but the argument that policing should be ‘left to professionals supervised by their local communities’ sounds like an argument for, not against them.
The Shaun Wright issue might be solved by recall elections – something Nick Clegg has blocked but in all probability Shaun Wright would have been in place under the old system.
10 Police and Crime Commissioners were elected as Independents. The 2010 Lib Dem Manifesto says ”
Give local people a real say over their police force through the direct election of police authorities. Authorities would still be able to co-opt extra members to ensure diversity, experience and expertise.”
It really is up to the people of South Yorkshire to make their voices heard. Perhaps many of them never wanted PPCs. Well I’m afraid they’ve got one now. There’s no use in giving people this voting power if Westminster justs removes someone they don’t like.
I would suggest part of the problem is the lack of experience of people joining the police and the lack of experience of many councillors.
1. Prior to 1945 , many Chief Constables were ex-military , colonel or higher.
2. The Deputy CC was a police officer who came up through the ranks
4. The CC acted as Chairman of the Board while the DCC was the MD.
5. This enabled the CC to discuss with the DCC the police activities. It is not acceptable for the Chairman and MD of a PLC to be the same person : should this be applied to police forces?
6. Up to the early 1960s many ex Guards Sergeants joined the City of London and Met. This meant there were plenty of highly experienced men who had been in war or conflicts such as Malaya and could bring in their experience to bear. A tough self assured ex -guards Sergeant walking into a pub where a fight is taking place can be of more use in creating calm than 2 or 3 nervous constables.
7. Many councillors had experience of the Armed Forces and could bring this to bear when assessing Police Actions up to the early 1980s. A councilor who fought in the Chindits , or jungles of Malaya and Borneo would be unlikely to tolerate Police complaining about difficult and hard conditions. It appears that too many councilors accept at face value when the Police say they do not have the resources to solve a problem.
8. A PCSO can earn £25K per year in London which is about what a Lance Corporal in the Paras or Royal Marine Commandos: who gives better value to the taxpayer?
9. What of the issues of case with Andrew Mitchell MP was that many people considered the police officer was too fat for standard duties , let alone be operating in an elite unit.
I would suggest that a major concern is that many law abiding members of the public no longer consider the Police have the competence , drive , determination and initiative to deter crime and catch criminals. Too often Police officers appear too small, thin or fat to be able to offer a reassuring physical presence to honest people so what deterrence do they offer to criminals?.
I would suggest that Police and Crime Commissioners were the wrong solution to the problem that many honest people no longer consider the Police to be competent and exhibit the highest levels of probity .
We were told constantly that there was “no money left”. So why did you push through another piece of legislation we cannot afford, that people didn’t want (as evidenced by the horribly low turnout from these elections)? How much money did you waste on this when it could’ve been better spent in the NHS, for example?
@paul barker:
” I think we can all see that this experiment has not produced the results that we hoped for.”
We didn’t hope for ANYTHING. It was always a stupid idea. It was OBVIOUSLY a stupid idea.
While there may be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, down here on earth we are not so chippy. But plenty more material to go on.
A perfect example of a policy which introduced devolution of power without really thinking about the matter of accountability. People didn’t know (perhaps didn’t even want to know) why they should vote for police commissioner, and I at least have no idea by what criteria, and on the basis of what information, I should judge mine (an ex-Labour MP, distinguished only by the fact hat during a very long tenure he allegedly never held a surgery).
Good riddance.
I hope we learn from this experiment that we think very hard about the realities of democratic powers before we begin handing out any more next time.
Exactly what Tony Dawson says.
It was obviously David Cameron’s stupid idea.
One of my disappointments in Nick Clegg stems from the fact that last year Nick Clegg could not even remember the name of the South Yorkshire Police and Crime commissioner for the area where he is MP when speaking on radio Sheffield. ( Shaun Wright).
I don’t remember him saying that the introduction of Crime PCC’s being ‘an experiment’ then. He seemed to be arguing that PCC’s should get out more and communicate with locals so that there would be a higher turnout in future elections. Joe Otten, a local who would probably have also heard the programme can correct me if I am mistaken.
Rightly or wrongly, the timing of Nick Clegg’s comment just makes what he says seem like political opportunism to me, something I had hoped the Liberal Democrats would steer clear of. If, last year, he had used his slot on Radio Sheffield to argue a strong opposition to PCC’s, I would have applauded him.
Delighted to see that Nick Clegg is opposed to elected Police Crime Commissioners.
What is his position on elected Mayors, please?