Yes, working hard and smart to change public opinion quickly is key to stopping Brexit. Many MP’s are running scared of being accused of going against the wishes of the people, so it must be obvious to them that public opinion has changed and we have to hurry to make it so. More Brexit negotiation shambles will help, but focusing on economic and pragmatic arguments did not win us the referendum and it won’t persuade many to change their opinion. People have become numb to the same old ping pong arguments. One side says this and the other the opposite ad infinitum. Even I have found my head spinning at times with some doubt. What was missing from the remain campaign was the emotional argument. The leavers won this hands down with “take back control” and sadly, xenophobia.
In Nick Clegg’s short book, “How to Stop Brexit” he rightly points out that the UK public have never had the same emotional attachment to EU institutions as continental Europeans. He suggests a key reason for this is that the UK escaped invasion, a very plausible suggestion. In my opinion there has always been a conservative islander mentality in the British psyche too. I am old enough to remember the complaints when we moved to metric measures – what’s wrong with pounds and ounces, and gallons, and of course, a pint? We used to talk about people on “the continent” Even now we still have miles rather than kilometres and drive on a different side of the road. (The latter probably understandable for practical reasons, but Sweden did change sides in the 60s)
Whilst Nick’s book offers a good analysis of why the UK (only just) voted to leave, plus a list of very practical and pragmatic actions for those who want to #stopbrexit, such as writing letters to MPs – it does not offer much emotional inspiration. Of course it’s difficult to persuade people to stay with something that they know is hard work when their emotional committent is lukewarm or worse hateful. It is also very difficult to win an argument focused on realistic pragmatic necessity, when the opponents can offer a vague uncharted idealistic fantasy. Whilst missing the emotive narrative, Nick’s book does however offer us lots of hope and inspiration. Young people are much more likely to support staying in the EU and everyday more of them are coming of voting age. At the same time the facts of mortality dictate that the older people, more likely to be Leavers, are dying away. He also reminds us that only a little more that 650,000 voting the other way would have reversed the referendum result and that recent polls are suggesting that sufficient numbers may have changed their mind in our direction already.
It is clear to me that many MP’s are abandoning there own natural position on the EU because they believe it is their overriding duty to carry out “the people’s will” as it was expressed on June 23rd 2016. If this is correct, when we get public opinion to change, many MPs will feel comfortable and positively pleased to be able to return to their own position.
So let’s get out there and do everything we can to #StopBrexit as Nick suggests, but please can someone come up with a strong emotive narrative with catch phrases to help. I fear the same pragmatic arguments we used in the EU campaign and #Brexitshambles alone may not be enough. I am reluctant to say it, but ideally we need someone upbeat capable of the populist rhetorical skills and language of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage on our side – or maybe a more palatable example could be Emmanuel Macron!
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42 Comments
Young people are much more likely to support staying in the EU and everyday more of them are coming of voting age. At the same time the facts of mortality dictate that the older people, more likely to be Leavers, are dying away
It’s lucky there’s no natural process that turns young people into old people, isn’t it?
maybe a more palatable example could be Emmanuel Macron
Macron’s ideas of reform of the EU, though, are all about ‘more Europe’ — exactly the sort of thing guaranteed to turn off the British public.
‘UK public have never had the same emotional attachment to EU institutions as continental Europeans.’
I don’t think many people have emotional attachments to institutions. It’s the relationship between peoples that matters. In addition our place in Europe has long been ignored by our media. If I go on the BBC website I have to go to World News before getting Europe as an option. Same on general news reporting. The British public have never been encouraged to engage with Europe.
“At the same time the facts of mortality dictate that the older people, more likely to be Leavers, are dying away.”
I shudder every time a Lib Dem uses this line.
Concentrate on changing people’s minds, preferably by offering a positive vision of EU membership.
Giving the impression that you are celebrating the deaths of people with whom you disagree is offensively illiberal and undemocratic. It is more likely to stiffen the resolve of those on the other side of the debate and may even drive away those who would otherwise agree with you on EU membership.
How genuinely democratic was the recent referendum?
How can you call a referendum democratic when it is imposed by a ruling oligarchy?
Where were the rules to ensure the fair functioning of the referendum advertising, financing and procedures?
Might the attached piece provide some relevant thoughts, words, questions and actions.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/how-brexit-was-engineered-by-foreign-billionaires-to-bring-about-economic-chaos-for-profit/5614194
The “dying away” thing is interesting. So often the polling lumps people who are 65+ together as if they are one cohort despite the fact that this is a “cohort” spanning four decades. My purely anecdotal impression is that people who were born in the 40s or born in the early Cold War were overwhelmingly pro Brexit but many of those still left who experienced the 40s or the Cold War era as adults voted Remain. Perhaps I am just lucky enough to have come across some very sound people in their very advanced years!
I’m convinced more than ever that oldies voted in droves for Brexit out to spite to ruin the life chances of the young. The whole pro-Brexit campaign and narrative was only ever about targeting hated groups (particularly minority groups).
Red Liberal
As a 69-year-old I resent that remark. I campaigned for, and voted, remain and the only abuse I got on the doorstep was from under-40s.
The thread that Steve Trevethan points out is very interesting.Loaded with bog Tory names and foriegn businessmen. Trump could certainly fit into section 3, pro Brexit, break away from the EU make billions from ‘destructive capitalism’.Legatum,privatise the NHS. On a wider basis I have noticed how many millionaires are positioned on the Leave side. Banks is one.
Mogg. Has he donated anything to a food bank? When he inherits his millions will he donate some to worthy causes? Brexit does seem to have plenty of the well off .
With respect (and this is intended seriously), is it that far-fetched that such points of view as “another referendum to check if people really want the final terms” and “the older leavers are going to die”, depending on future events, will end up with Nigel Farage (or similar) as Prime Minister? 🙂
When I read this awful stuff it reminds me of why the party is almost wiped out.
Hoping that older voters will hurry up and die is a most appalling position for a liberal party.
@Peter – “you could not make it up”? 🙂
If Mr Clegg had spoken of women, LGBT and non-white persons in the same callous way that he speaks about the mortality of older persons he would be getting the same sort of criticism that his successor as member for Hallam is getting. Cut it out Clegg.
Young people get old and their views change. It’s happened before.
Nigel Hunter.
There just as many on the remain side.
Tony Blair, David Cameron. George Osborne, various bankers, powerbrokers and so on and so on.
Paul,
I will fail your “please can someone come up with a strong emotive narrative with catch phrases to help” test, because mine is also truthful. But maybe becoming truthful again has some emotional benefit in itself:
Until today, nowhere is life better than in Europe. None of the recent crises (euro, refugees, financial) has fundamentally changed that. Europeans, however, seem to have lost sight of this fact; in any event, they no longer feel assured that it will remain that way. And there are good fundamental reasons to be concerned: Europe is small, resource-poor and overaged. The far east challenges our position in industrial production and remotely provideable services, to our south are 1 (soon 2) billion people with poor prospects at home, and our natural partner and protector to the west has become unreliable.
People are scared and fall for populist politicians with simple solutions to complex problems (which are always wrong). They will fail and produce more disappointment. They promise to turn the clock back (their favourite word), where advancing further is our only option.
We will not succeed in reclaiming industrial jobs by pushing 500 million Asians back into poverty, and we will not suceed in keeping 500 million Africans in their hopeless place, and we better take care of our security ourselves.
The EU is the best platform we have to give the right response: be an efficient, high value added manufacturing location by leveraging the entire continent’s competitive advantages, pool skills to constantly push technological frontiers, provide the world’s biggest and richest internal market for maximum scale, uphold local agri-culture (note both words) through sizeable subsidies, finance a generous social state that mitigates ongoing structural change, invest in remote areas to align standards of living, bundle foreign and defence-policies for global clout, become a development-partner for Africa, beneficially manage persistently high immigration (intra-EU movement is the non-issue of this century, btw.).
Further European integration is unsexy in this country, I know, but TINA. Get used to it. The UK on its own will turn into two countries: London (including associated country-estates), playground of the world’s rich and the highly skilled, and a post-agrarian, deindustrialized rest, with ever more precarious living conditions.
Many of the larger EU countries still have massive youth unemployment.
“Nowhere is life better” is a cruel distortion of the facts. The problem is an inappropriate Euro exchange rate. Everyone knows that, but it suits Germany. Your motherhood promise of apple pie and jam tomorrow lacks credibility.
The reason that older people voted for Brexit is simple. It comes down to one word, wisdom. Even the most starry eyed Europhiles acquire wisdom eventually, though perhaps some people here are exceptions
Peter
Oh, not the old “wisdom” argument again! LOL.
Young and idealistic people will often turn into older and disappiointed people when the promises of the advertisers/employers/marketing bods/politicians do not materialise. Spells of underemployment and poverty can change a persons mind. I would not reply on the viewpoints of the young staying the same forever. It is said that there is now such a thing as a 25-year-old-crisis as well as a midlife crisis. I am not sure that is a good basis for hoping that future voters will always be keen Remainers. And devious millionaires? The prominent spokesbods on both sides are wealthy and privileged. It was hard to see Cameron and Osborne as keen defenders of workers rights during the Remain campaign, for instance. The fronting of the Remain campaign by unpopular politicians was one of the main reasons that Leave won.
Seeing Osborne, Balls, Clegg franternising with Michael O’Leary (a man who abuses his customers and treats his employees with contempt), JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs (banks which have an insidious influence in global politics and appear to be Clegg’s paymasters), together with the likes of Blair giving us his wisdom almost certainly turned voters to Leave.
The Brexit debate was largely a battle of corporatism vs nationalism and the social democratic reasons to Remain (and for that matter the left wing reasons to Leave) were lost in a sea of millionaires and corporate types either arguing to Remain purely preserve their own wealth and influence or alternatively playing the “patriot card” and pretending to be the voice of the working class to promote Leave. It may as well been a battle of the Rockefellers and the Trumps.
A Goldman Sachs and Ryanair Remain is just as useless for the ordinary people as a Cambridge Analytica and Murdoch Leave.
Some of my main EU selling points would be that:
“We will no longer impose un-mandated treaties upon the EU’s populations”
Or, that “We will no longer work towards a ‘Federal Europe’ by stealth”
Or, that “We will not seek to have a central treasury with tax-raising powers”
Or, that “We will not seek to establish an EU-serving armed force”
All, more or less, will be required if recent evidence is examined – the Spinelli-Bertelsmann’s Fundamental Law paper, the Five Presidents’ Report, President Juncker’s State of the Union speech, for example.
Will a pro-EU campaign team, in a necessary second referendum, be highlighting these ambitions as “vague uncharted idealistic fantasy”? Will these ambitions be upfront and transparent – written on the side of a bus, maybe?
Yes, I am getting older by the minute – with no additional wisdom some will say – but I know how democracy should look, and the European Union isn’t it.
Mussolini was (wrongly) accredited with noting that fascism should really be known as ‘state corporatism’ – and what we have seen over the last 40 years is just that; a three-party, pro-EU, corporate stitch-up that has served those on certain tiers of society and exploited, or totally ignored, those at the bottom.
Life is wonderful for the average LibDem Voicer – I’ve no doubt, but it is not so for many in the UK; and it’s those who have made their feelings known.
Whether they be young and unemployed, or old, who see how our youth have been discarded and left to state dependency, the divisions are now deeply etched in the UK, and stopping Brexit will only exacerbate those divisions.
Believe me, there is no going back.
By Election probability for Sheffield West, maybe as early as mid December. Who is the candidate? One person it should not be is Clegg, he has made so many nonsense statements recently, including advising peiople to join the Labour party, he would hand the election to Labour on a plate. New candidate please, preferable Sheffield/Chesterfield woman or man.
If there is a Byelection in Sheffield I hope that Nick Clegg can be persuaded to change his mind & stand again, we could not possibly find a better candidate.
David Davis says that Parliament will have a vote after we have left. May says before. Then it looks like it could be at the last minute. That implies a vote at the last minute could be classed as too late to change the outcome. The deal should come a month before March 2019 .
The deal should come a month before March 2019 .
The final draft for approval will need to ready well before then, given the EU approval process for the Art.50 Withdrawal Agreement.
@greg
I totally agree.
I’ve never heard an honest, comprehensive Remain pitch promoting the benefits of the Euro, federalism, etc. It would sound like a joke.
You are right. There is no going back.
My message would be “We would like to leave the eu but we can’t manage it without disastrous results to our economy and way of life”.
@Peter Hirst “My message would be “We would like to leave the eu but we can’t manage it without disastrous results to our economy and way of life”.” – with respect and out of interest, is the UK really so feeble, that it could not stand on its own feet? 🙂
We should be playing to the “upside” of Brexit .Inflation up as the pound drops ,Interest rates likely to go up because of those inflationary factors ,Food and raw material costs up because your pound now buys less.air fares and hotel costs up when you go on holiday if you can now afford it if your employer is not down sizing the work force because of indecision on future investments in the UK and a stagnant housing market with low productivity .George Osbourne was wrong to try and frighten voters to vote to remain but the slow burn of economic instability is now beginning to bite and the outcome is what all the experts warned of and the brexiteers wanted to ignore .
Neil. your concern about Brexit inflation, as you call it, on the cost of your next holiday hotel is probably very real, however, in the scheme of things, it is a negligible fleabite to put it in context. During the last fifty years, the UK has lost control over almost everything that defines a normal sovereign state.
Just last week, Michael Bloomberg described Brexit as the single stupidest thing any country has ever done. So you are in the company of the multi-billionaire ex mayor of New York. Well done.
Someone should ask Bloomberg or any other citizen of the United States if they would consider it a good idea to relinquish legal supremacy, control of borders and foreign trade in return for a trade deal. The answer would not be ambiguous at all.
I think this is an example of wisdom versus youthful enthusiasm and if you are over Fifty then congratulations on your youthful outlook.
The simple fact is that although the EU has been a great boon to the UK as a whole, it has been shared out appallingly. The extent to which it is the UK’s fault or the EU’s fault may be a matter for debate, but a significant amount is down to how the UK is so London centric.
We are leaving the EU and have an opportunity for a fresh start. The difference between the most optimistic Leaver and most pessimistic Remainer is time to adjust. I don’t care how long it takes because it will be a fraction of the time we spent within the EU and outside of that organisation we shall have restored all the freedoms that we previously lost. We shall be much better placed to take the opportunities offered by an international array of fast growing economies.
Peter 26th Oct ’17 – 8:21pm:
Just last week, Michael Bloomberg described Brexit as the single stupidest thing any country has ever done.
This week he expects to hire thousands more staff in London…
‘Bloomberg opens £1bn European HQ in London’:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bloomberg-opens-1bn-european-hq-with-plans-for-uk-growth-after-brexit-nzjl2tf5t
Neil Sandison 26th Oct ’17 – 6:52pm:
We should be playing to the “upside” of Brexit .Inflation up as the pound drops ,Interest rates likely to go up because of those inflationary factors ,Food and raw material costs up because your pound now buys less…
The correction in the pound’s value is long overdue and beneficial…
‘Britain should embrace weaker pound and it needs to fall further, says former BoE governor and currency guru’ [October 2016]:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/10/currency-guru-says-pound-slide-liberates-uk-from-malign-grip-of/
-Jeff
I don’t remember any Brexiters promising us a crash in sterling prior to the referendum. Perhaps you could provide a link to a comment or article prior to June 23rd 2016 where you argued for the necessity of a ‘correction in the pound’s value’.
Andrew Melmoth 27th Oct ’17 – 1:12am:
I don’t remember any Brexiters promising us a crash in sterling prior to the referendum.
Had they done so they would have been proved wrong as the pound’s fall is not enough to meet the generally accepted definition of 25% for a currency crash (Frankel and Rose, 1996).
Perhaps you could provide a link to a comment or article prior to June 23rd 2016 where you argued for the necessity of a ‘correction in the pound’s value’.
Prior to June 2016 the pound was widely regarded as being over-valued…
‘Pound is ‘most overvalued currency in the world’, analysts claim’ [December 2015]:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/12065157/Pound-is-most-overvalued-currency-in-the-world-analysts-claim.html
Jeff The real concern of the public was the perception of uncontrolled migration largely inflated by overseas students who actually brought much needed hard currency to our higher education sector.True it is one the four pillars of the single market was free movement but we didnt effectively control entry of non EU citizens where we had full control .
Only the Brexit zealots linked that to harmonised EU legislation on quality control of goods ,food,drink and environmental impacts what they called taking back control .
But in an effort to ensure our products can still enter EU markets we have the EU withdrawl bill to guess what harmonise GB products going to be sold in Europe .
Now we see HM government trying to misuse the royal perogative to give ministers the same powers they so objected to Brussels exercising through the council of ministers so when does parliament take back control ?
Para 3-
“Nick’s book…. does not offer much emotional inspiration… Nick’s book does however offer us lots of hope and inspiration.”
Do you find it inspiring or not Paul? Personally I thought it gets off to a good start, but then peters out a bit at the end. After documenting how the Leave vote was based on completely false information, he then says that 17 million Leave voters cannot be ignored, they knew exactly what they were doing. Another contradiction.
The result of these contradictions and wanting to please everyone, including Leavers, is a fudge. Clegg’s final vision of Britain joining an outer circle of countries orbiting a central core, with little say in European affairs, is disappointing.
For heavens sake let’s have a positive and inspiring message that Britain can once again lead the EU, help sort out its problems and carry the torch of liberty alongside Germany and France . Whats wrong with a United States of Europe anyway? The United States of America does pretty well.
Peter 26th Oct ’17 – 8:21pm
“During the last fifty years, the UK has lost control over almost everything that defines a normal sovereign state.”
What on earth do you consider to be the things that “define a normal sovereign state”? We have control (as far as anybody does) over our currency, our armed forces, our education and health services, our welfare state, and over 95% of taxation and public spending in this country. We don’t have much control over the terms of foreign trade, it’s true – but as we’re about 1% of the world’s population and the Empire is long gone, we’re not likely to have much control of that, are we?
So what exactly are you worried about?
Malcolm,
A lot of Brexiteers are worried we are no longer top dog. they struggle to accept our place in the world and want the glory days back. They want Admiral Wee Moggs gunboat squadrons to sail from Grimsby and give Jonny Foreigner a thrashing. They want agent Doris to lead the oppressed plebs of Europe into the sun lit uplands of the new British Empire. They want to be glorious again as they where in their youth. In short they are wanting back that, that never existed outside the comic books of their youth. It is very much for a large number a case of
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
So they rage but eventually time and facts will overwhelm them. As my father in law said “Well they may make us poorer but I won’t be around too see it”. Easy to make a brave stand when you have no skin in the game isn’t it and he wonders why people don’t respect him.
Just to explain my father in laws mindset, he spends more time going on about his three years in Malta on National Service than anything that has happened since or before. He’s stuck in the 1950’s and doesn’t see why it can’t come back. A sad life when only three years count and those over fifty plus years ago.
@ frankie I look forward to seeing you and your father-in-law on the Jeremy Kyle Show.
David,
I don’t claim to be an expert on Mr Kyle but I do get the impression if it isn’t to do with sex and thieving it isn’t really his cup of tea. In the few times I’ve had the dubious pleasure of watching bits of the showdn’t noticed politics being a major concern; unless you count the underlying message that these people are scum and are to be laughed at. Now that does beg the question why do we think demonising the poor is fun and too be applauded, but that does rather feed into the narrative of deserving and undeserving poor, that seems to be endlessly pushed.
@ Malcolm Todd – I’m glad you mentioned the few exceptions that we still control. As you know, the EU plans to end Eurozone opt outs, take control of member state military and create a treasury with a finance minister to oversee central taxation, budget setting and expenditure.
Don’t worry, that leaves us in charge of education and health. Of course, the EU isn’t finished yet, don’t forget ever closer integration will continue.