You do have to wonder if the @jameschappers Twitter account is a parody or has been taken over by the Brexiteers who are tweeting from some holiday bar for fun. It’s doing some seriously weird stuff at the moment, including suggesting that Vince Cable is going to be launching Chapman’s new anti Brexit Party on 9th September. Seriously.
BREAKING @vincecable will join me in Parliament Square on 9.9.17 to launch #thedemocrats #nazisout #wemarchon 🇬🇧❤️🇪🇺
— James Chapman (@jameschappers) August 16, 2017
No, he isn’t. It is that simple.
Jim Waterson of Buzzfeed has chapter and verse:
Lib Dems strongly pushing back on idea Vince Cable is backing anything involving James Chapman. It’s possible they might be at same event. pic.twitter.com/8OEPAQWhHM
— Jim Waterson (@jimwaterson) August 16, 2017
He quotes a Liberal Democrat spokesperson as saying:
There is no question whatever of Vince Cable supporting a new party as James Chapman is suggesting.
A new party is completely unnecessary as the Liberal Democrats already represent an anti-Brexit alternative in the centre ground of British politics.
It is best to rebut this sort of stuff forcefully and immediately before it seeps into people’s consciousness.
* Caron Lindsay is Editor of Liberal Democrat Voice and blogs at Caron's Musings
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32 Comments
Given the way this Chapman character is carrying on, it seems only reputational damage by association will ensue from working with him. If I was Vince, I’d have nothing to do with him and continue to campaign separately. The whole thing seems to be a silly season phenomenon.
I think that we need to be careful about rushing to judgement about what is going on. Something is clearly not right.
The important thing is to rebut the idea that Vince is supporting any launch. He has made it clear that he isn’t. The rest of the stuff will sort itself out.
Is it only me who thinks he’s living in a book by Lewis Carroll? Strange times we live in the world appears to be going mad at an alarming rate; what was once fantastical is now common or garden.
There is no need for a new party, join the Liberal Democrats and go for gold.
Brexit is falling apart before our eyes; the positioning papers are being laughed out of court, the only way of solving the Irish border is a united Ireland and the ridiculous complexity of the project increasing by the day. We don’t need another political party, we just need to stand firm and let the Tories and Labour tear themselves apart.
Frank
The Republic must seek a special EU status for Northern Ireland.
I’m not going to pre judge this. I think there are potentially some MPs from the Conservative party and possibly the Labour Party that want to form a new party to stop Brexit and ‘Break the mould’ of British politics. They may be of the view that the Lib Dem brand is too tarnished to do this successfully. If that is the case then we have to face the possibility of a new SDP being born. I suspect Vince Cable might be open to a full blown merger of both parties to avoid fighting over the same voters. But if he’s sensible (which he is) he’ll wait and see.
Call me suspicious, but a simple application of “cui bono” suggests to me that this whole Democrats party nonsense is reverse entrapment designed to finish off the Lib Dems and ensure Brexit.
John Bennett – I agree, the Brexiteers probably see Vince’s return to Parliament and leadership of the principal anti-Brexit party as posing a significant threat to their goals. He and we need to be particularly watchful against their shenanigans during the months ahead, and I hope that the LD Press team are on the ball and pro-active against the danger.
There may be a fair degree of orchestration involved: you only have to try and find recent speeches by Vince on You Tube for the search results to be dominated by anti-‘Remoaner’ slurs and Brexit propaganda, peddled by fake news organisations.
We need to set up an all party parliamentary pressure group to combat irresponsible brexit.
‘Democrats’ is an utterly unimaginative name and as a choice is both lazy and indistinct.
There used to be a party in Turkey with the splendid name of the Correct Path Party, though I’m unsure what its politics were.
In the latter stages of the Hapsburg Empire the satirist Jaroslav Hasek set up the Party of Moderate Progress Within the Bounds of the Law.
Surely James Chapman and his associates (if they exist) can do better!
Chapman’s initiative might possibly manage to split away some anti-Brexit Tories who would never join the Lib Dems. That could demolish May’s parliamentary majority for Brexit and create a more fluid situation, which could potentially help us and help defeat Brexit. Whilst the dangers are evident, it’s not clear that we should oppose such a development. We might instead offer loose alliance.
“Go away, we were here first!” is playground politics. It is not likely to impress the public.
Caron’s warning above that “something is clearly not right” should be heeded. Several of Champan’s friends appear to be concerned for his state of mind and his twitter account has been removed. Best to wait and see before rushing to judgement.
I do not like the denigration of the Democrats word, here above , in comments.
Great and very needed parties we would be in throughout the world are called by the name as much as Liberal. The US, Italy, France , until recently, many sister parties in Liberal International.
We should object because it is in our name, and the law, associated with and related to “passing off as , “in all contexts from business to politics does not make this so straight forward as Mr. Chapman may think .
This is what Vince should say, hands off our name and electoral support, of hard work building a position.
Nothing wrong with a new grouping, but it must be organised around the current parties not go off half cock !
As far as the speculation on the man’s personal health and state f mind, surely we should not buy into an unproven and unsubstantiated notion.
US Democrats are toxic, corrupt, useless, and pander to extremist left wing groups, even when they commit violence. Why anybody would want to name a party the same as them is beyond me.
@ Alex “US Democrats are toxic, corrupt, useless, and pander to extremist left wing groups”,
Well, given that the US Democrats are right wing by most British standards and probably the equivalent of Cameronian Tories, I wonder what world you’re in. Nevertheless, thank you very much for your considered opinion.
I wish James Chapman well with his project. However, ultimately there are only three mainstream political ideologies – Conservatism, Socialism and Liberalism. Equally, there are only fundamentally three economic systems that can be adopted – Capitalism, central planning or Georgism.
Political parties, as broad coalitions of differing viewpoints, may mix and match aspects of these ideologies and economic systems, but it is nonetheless necessary to adopt a consistent stance grounded in a values based worldview.
Without this grounding, single issue parties will come and go, as we are now seeing with UKIP.
If this “New” party does arrive, it should not be, nor should the party I am a sad member of, call themselves “Democrats”
The Liberal party are no longer democrats, as a true “Democrat” accepts the result of a lawful election, and by standing against the result of the referedum is totally undemocratic!!
I have supported this party since Paddy Ashdown stood for leader, but I am finding it very difficult to continue to support it because of this anti Brexit stance.
We lost some brilliant MPs in the general election, including Nick Clegg, because any canidate standing in a pro brexit seat, would be struggling as over 50% of the electorate would not vote for them!
I am finding it very difficult to continue with my party membership because of this, it is only my support for my MP, Norman Lamb, that made me vote Lib Dem last time.
I am a Deocrat, and as much as I do not want the Brexit result, I do accept it although with deep sadness
Three contributions show why my kind of approach here , centre ,centre left , radical and moderate centre , centre left , is the essence of liberalism and Liberalism.
Alex says the sort of thing about the Democrats in America that as ever has a grain of truth but is so distorted and one sided it is not a response but a diatribe.
The Us Democrats have produced moderates such as Kennedy , Carter and Obama, hardly pandering to the far left. It is as corrupt as the area it is corrupt in, usually, like any party in power in certain localities, unchecked due to a daft first past the post system.
David Raw, who knows enough about the presidencies mentioned, add candidacy of Sanders , and his and my favourite man, Joe Biden, and to respond with an otherwise good response to Alex with the notion that the Democrats are right wing by any standards , or Cameronians , is also daft.
The US have two broad groupings, the Democrats goes today from Sir John Major to John Prescott, with all our party in the middle of that , it contains blue collar, union votes , self employed arty types, it is really the Cameron Tories, Labour Party pre Corbyn and the Liberal Democrats in coalition, more left in the cities, more centrist in the suburbs, it is a party we would be in if in the State or the Republicans , now to the right of their whole history, are the winning team.
As for Arthur Bailey. You sadden any of us who care. Stay . We need you too.
ANY logic says that if you are of an open mind, tolerant and anti brexit ….. you would already be a Lib Dem member or in process of joining. Maybe those floating idea of a ‘new’ party offering this platform are well meaning ( OR brexiteers trying to split the pro EU vote? ) BUT the Liberal Democrats already have the philosophy, MP,Peer, Councillor, organisational base
Lorenzo Cherin To equate the modern Democrat Party in the USA (take Clinton and spouse for example) with moderate Cameron Conservatives (such as your pal Anna Soubry) is not daft. If someone had used that adjective to you we would be having cries of ‘insult’ and ‘outrage’.
But being the sweet natured guy that I am, I’m happy just to disagree – and to be entertained with your own positioning of being “a bit right of left of right of left of centre of radical of liberal…. sometimes….maybe….. of centre… I think” ???
@Arthur Bailey
“The Liberal party are no longer democrats, as a true “Democrat” accepts the result of a lawful election, and by standing against the result of the referendum is totally undemocratic!!”
Lawful in name only. If it is acceptable for organisations campaigning in elections and/or referenda to campaign on the basis of a pack of lies and misinformation then perhaps the democratic process is doomed.
Arthur Bailey: Your argument would imply that any party which lost an election should simply give up. The anti E U supporters did not give up when they lost the 1975 Referendum so why should the pro EU people give up now ?
They are only asking for a referendum on the final deal, not a re-run of the 2016 vote. No referendum can be binding for all time. If it was then we should not have held the one in 2016. Whether it is wise for the Liberal Democrat party to continue making the EU a major issue is another matter. It did not do them much good in elections but maybe gained a few more seats this year whilst losing a few as well.
David Raw
You can mock all night but several goes does not deal with substantive comments yours , mine , any.
I say I am, centre , centre left, confirm it or expand on it , to add radical , centre, moderate centre left.
If that is funny, my comic side is even more obvious than I thought, and comedy has been a forte !
I say above that the mainstream centrist Tory mps today would be Democrats, they would as shown, in other eras, but the Republicans are way to the right of Reagan and Senior Bush, so their connection has got less/or ceased for now.
I think , and say so, but you ignore it as you always do when you might agree, you love to disagree with your favoured sparring partners and agree with the same too, but to call Biden who we both like, a Conservative or right wing is as daft as when I get the description too !
By the way, if I am so funny , I am not humourless, so please accept I do not mind words like daft or nonsense, I dislike people and their whole stance written of thus .
I never write you off, as if !!!
David R., you and Lorenzo have put me in fits of laughter, which is a nice way to end the night, thank you! But, David, WHAT about Town, that amazing success, and carried through on their first match? Ay, lad, how about that?! I’ve just been visited by a friend from our days as Huddersfield Young Liberals, with her new husband, great people both, and what with that and the splendid Observer three-page feature on the town, I’m reliving my youth and wanting to revisit. Are you coming to Conference? Maybe we could get together with Alex McCabe, is it, who has been doing excellent canvassing in the town, and toast the team and the town and Lib Dem fortunes there in a glass or two. Au’voir for tonight!
Slight amendment – this morning I think it’s Andrew, not Alex, McCabe, who I remember is keeping the Lib Dem flag flying in the attractive town of Huddersfield. Up and down those seven (?) hills must keep you fit, Andrew! Well done with the effective canvassing.
@Katharine and David, glad to read of your pleasant memories if living in Huddersfield. Katharine I think you refer to Andrew McCaig who is doing excellent canvassing in the town. The wealthy wool magnates endowed the town with superb Victorian architecture, and cultural institutions such as the Choral Society and Philharmonic Orchestras. The beautiful moorland hillside setting of the town and its reasonable population size now makes it a perfect university town whilst the town as a whole comes to terms with the era of globalised trade.
@ Katharine Ayup, lass. Ah’s reet suited that tha’s a Town supporter and Ah’s reet suited wit t’way them young lads are playing under that David Wagner. Ah’ve seen nowt like it since the days of Vic Metcalfe and Jimmy Glazzard ‘n that young whipper snapper Denis Law.Mi Dad wud’ve luved it . It were reet grand t’see towd blue n white scarf on Uncle Harold’s statue. We have a deep bond with the club as a glance at the 1930 Cup Final team will reveal.
Sorry but can’t get to the Deep South for the Conference. On holiday in the Western Isles. I try to get down to two or three matches a year at Town to meet up with my old mates.
@ Christopher. Yes, to everything you say. I always try to get to the Town Hall for The Messiah when I can get a ticket. Hudders is a great little Town and not only can we boast James Mason, Harold Wilson, Patrick Stewart but also the new Dr Who.
@ Lorenzo. I think you’ll find the world is a sunnier place if you went to bed a bit earlier. To stay up late night after night on a computer is – I’m searching for an appropriate Huddersfield phrase – proper daft.
David, thanks for the lovely reply! Just sorry you can’t make Bournemouth, Conference’s loss. Christopher, thanks for correcting my failing memory about Andrew McCaig (indeed! sorry, Andrew!), and thanks also for reminding me more about that grand town, once very significant in my own life.
I never got to know the superior part of town, must have been too lowly as a reporter on the Examiner! – but I did appreciate its architecture, and equally the music concerts in Huddersfield Town Hall. I wish I had kept visiting, envying David his trips to the footy AND to the Messiah (but I have sung since in the Albert Hall several times with the scratch Messiahs in November, so that has compensated) – however, my friends have moved on to other places, inevitably, as have I.
I hope the town also creates more employment opportunities, which the success of the team should help with, and that we as a party develop our industrial strategy and economic policies so as to assist potentially the former textile towns of Yorkshire and Lancashire in the era of (as you say, Christopher) of globalised trade.
September 9th is the day of the Demo against Brexit, I suppose it would make sense to announce any New Party there but unless Chapman has persuaded some actual MPs to join it then it will flop I should think.
If we get Westminster level defections to some New Group then we should think about co-operating with them, even forming an Electoral Pact if they attract enough New support.
It doesnt seem very likely at this point but who knows ?
David
Thanks you are right , but it is more that I wake up and…!
I like your dialect , only Cheryl Cole can speak like that and appeal to me though !!