Hull East won’t be represented in Brighton this year. I’m one of our two representatives, but we can’t afford to go, and we’ve never been to an autumn conference. We’ve been to Harrogate for the last three years – just about affordable, and very worthwhile. And we had planned to go to Blackpool two years ago, but my colleague, the driver, was ill, so I had to back out. Much as we would like to go to Brighton, it just isn’t possible when you’re on a low income. Take a look at the train fare, and then add in four nights in a hotel. So we won’t have a vote in the debates. We won’t be able to network, or attend all those meetings of groups based in London.
The frustration is all the greater because we are bombarded with messages about Conference, and the assumption that everybody will be there is in every communcation from the party. Does the party hierarchy not realise that most of the members won’t be there? There needs to be a change.
The conference organisers tell us that it isn’t possible to come north. Manchester isn’t available, and there’s nowhere else big enough and with enough affordable hotel accommodation. Even Harrogate is too small now. What about Birmingham?
I don’t know the answer to this problem of finding a conference venue that’s accessible to less well-off members who don’t live in the south east. We have to have an autumn conference, but maybe it’s time to re-think the form it takes. The party should not be disenfranchising so many constituencies, excluding us from so much that matters.
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33 Comments
Can we have it in Cambridge next year?
Why is Manchester “not available”, just out of interest?
The choice of conference venue represents a southern bias in membership of the FCC.
Birmingham would do the job, there’s plenty of affordable accommodation within easy travelling distance of the main in-town conference centre. Newcastle/Gateshead is more than big enough to host our conference, but there is a myth being allowed to propogate now that the Great North Run clashes with our conference every year – this is untrue. This year for example the GNR is on the 30th September.
Seriously, it’s just down to the same old faces on the FCC – vote in a predominantly northern-based committee and the Brighton fixation will disappear.
Would have thought a big enough slice of Manchester would be available for a Lib Dem annual conference. But this wouldn’t be the venues used by LP and to be used by Tories as there’d be some rattling around … but to answer Ann’s points on cost.
Surely car sharing or train poo//advanced booking deals with travel cost? I got to Brighton for £10 last time (coach to demo) and back for about £25 – BR fare bought 24h ahead.
And are there no Lib Dems in Brighton (or indeed in London, it’s less than an hour on the train) who can put up some colleagues?
Or take a tent! As Tony Benn does … before immediately finding himself fielding offers of nice rooms from TUs etc.
Or work as a Steward, stall minder etc and get some of the cost back.
Of course conferences can be expensive. But there are ways and means.
Oh, Chris, talk about cloud cuckoo land! I’m 59 and arthritic. The cheapest return train fare is £75. Going by coach adds enormously to the time. I have no intention of camping out! Get real!
I think the Party Conference is an income generating exercise for Cowley St and a good networking venue for young and fit activists.
Voting delegates are not a representative sample of the party as a whole; as someone has said they are people who can afford to go and are physically active.
So as a method of making democratic policy decisions it is not very efficient
Approval of policy papers could be done more effectively at the constituency level, where all members could have a vote.
The poll rating boost from party conference is soon lost, especially as we go first. It would be better if we were able to get into the media more regularly; as some bloggers and newspapers have said “where are the Libdems?”
Very depressing Leader in the Telegraph today. I know AH will rail at me for quoting a tory leaning paper, but I have to say that during Charles’s time I did sometimes read encouraging LD policy reviews there; unlike the Indie that came out for us at one GE, and has completely erased us from its consciousness since!
Elizabeth
You should try getting members to go to Conference from Scotland
I have a great deal of sympathy for Ann Godden’s comments. Nevertheless, the party is probably more constrained than most people realise in choosing conference venues. There are lots of towns and cities, all over the country, with halls big enough for even the most popular sessions at conference – though conference as a whole is substantially bigger than it was ten years ago. But there are very, very few which also have a hall or halls large enough for the exhibition, plus refreshment areas; one or more conference hotels as near as possible to the conference centre, which are prepared to let us rooms for fringe meetings at cheap rates; and a good supply of low-cost accommodation (which is why seaside resorts are often more suitable than big cities) – all at a cost we can afford and with availability for the dates we need.
In addition to all that, we can never be in the same venue as Labour (because their security sweep starts during our conference), though we can sometimes save costs by being in the same venue as the Conservatives.
The cost factor is most frequently the killer. Most conference centres are no longer owned by local authorities, and generally we need a council subsidy to be able to afford to book them. That’s why, like the other main parties, we’re able to go to Brighton, Bournemouth and Blackpool, and also to Liverpool next spring. That’s why we can’t afford to go to Manchester (they want to charge us what Labour was able to pay them last year – and in any case they’re booked up for several years ahead) or Glasgow. Gateshead isn’t ruled out by the Great North Run, as Rob Fenwick claims (though it was in the year we were thinking about it, 2005) but by the fact that the hotels near the Sage Centre were all too expensive, and the council wanted us to make everyone book via the tourist office. The new conference centre in Birmingham is a possibility (though speaking as someone whose family comes from Yorkshire and Tyneside, and who grew up in Edinburgh, I think it’s curious that people see Birmingham as ‘the north’ – but since I now live in London, I’m presumably one of Rob’s southerners, so what do I know?), and we’re looking into it, and if Liverpool works well for spring, that’s a possibility for autumn conferences too.
We also need to be sensitive to our membership. The one northern venue we have used for autumn conferences in recent years – Blackpool – was massively unpopular, with more people indicating they didn’t want to return than did in the feedback questionnaire (all other venues get about 90% approval rates). Also it’s worth bearing in mind that more than half the party’s membership lives south of Oxford. I’m not saying that as a reason for not going north – lack of affordable venues is the reason – but across a range of years it’s not unreasonable to have a slight southern bias. But we do try and push the spring conferences (where we have a greater choice of venues, as they’re smaller) further north to offset this.
We do, of course, recognise the costs of going to conference – which is why we subsidise party registration fees out of the income we generate from the exhibition, sponsorship, advertising, etc. But again there’s a limit to how much we can do this, because the FFAC set us a target for the overall surplus we have to generate – about £250K – £300K a year, which is included in the party budget approved every year by conference. This goes to fund the campaigning activities of the party.
Finally, as Chris Paul says, in fact travel costs are a relatively small proportion of the overall costs – accommodation is much more significant, and just as applicable for most southerners, unless they happen to live very close to the venue, as for anyone else. In fact, looking at the Qjump website, I can see that the cheapest Hull – Brighton – Hull ticket seems to be £51 (two singles), compared with the cheapest Hull – Harrogate – Hull ticket of £22.70 (return) – so we’re only talking about a difference of £28. (Driving would be cheaper, of course, but to both venues.)
I hope this helps to explain the constraints we operate under – which, of course, are nothing whatsoever to do with the geographical origin of FCC members. We’re always interested in exploring new venues, or even old ones (we checked out Scarborough recently, but it’s really not suitable) – but at the moment there really isn’t much choice.
Duncan Brack (Chair, Federal Conference Committee)
Ann, I don’t know you from Adam but I’m trying to be helpful. One can commute from London to Brighton quite easily. Presumably Lib Dems sometimes have spare rooms and sofa beds like the rest of us? Assuming you can manage without being up all night in the Metropole on the lash then there are budget options.
If the lowest fair really is £75 then I’d be surprised and also count my blessings as it is significantly less from Manchester.
What Labour do is load or unload the delegate conference fee with a rail pool (not poo) arrangement with the objective of everyone having the same travel costs.
PS What we also usually do is pay delegates basic travel and accommodation costs. If there are just 50 members in a local constituency party and it costs £75 plus 4 x £50 plus £75 fee to attend then this requires around £7 a head to be raised. If you have 500 members it’s 70p.
There are plenty of LP and no doubt Tory units that don’t send delegates for approximately the same reasons you mention Ann. As well as some frustration, and again this goes across the parties, that conference decisions are not really binding.
Newcastle is a great city. I’m not from there, and I live in London so it’s not personally convenient, but it’d be lovely to spend a few days there at conference. Much better than some of the other usual suspects.
I’ve had a good read of your post Duncan, and pretty much stand by my earlier comments.
One specific thing – I think it’s disingenuous to discredit Northern venues by saying that people didn’t like Blackpool. Comparing Blackpool and, say, Newcastle/Gateshead is hardly comparing like with like.
But on your main point, cost, this may sound flip but if you’re going in to negotiations with an attitude that the councils are doing us a favour and we should be terribly grateful, rather than the fact that we inject cash, media coverage, restauraunt business etc in to a town/city then we probably need to send in more hard-headed negotiators to strike a deal. Your reply (which was commendable for being made at all, incidentally) is pretty defeatist really.
That said, Liverpool sounds encouraging, and I wouldn’t want your job for all the tea in China, so you can take my comments in that context (i.e. ignore them)
I’m disappointed. Since we have more members in the south it’s okay to have a southern bias. All the southerners who had to trek to Blackpool didn’t like it. No appreciation of what it means to live on a low income, or to be in a small constituency (30 members) which is absolutely not going to subsidise its conference reps. I can’t say I’m surprised, but I am disappointed.
It wasn’t the “trek” to Blackpool that was the problem. It was the high cost and especially the generally abysmal quality of most of the accommodation, the hike between venues and the security bottleneck at the Winter Gardens, which meant it was almost impossible to be anywhere on time, along with the Winter Gardens’ many other limitations.
I agree that there is a problem with the cost of conference for someone on a low income who can’t work as a steward or get a subsidy (or take advantage of the reduced cost of registration and the travel discounts available by very early booking). But then many other groups of people are excluded, for example, teachers, who normally can’t take time off during term. And I’m chronically ill — I could probably have found a way to pay for conference, but I know going wouldn’t do my health any good so I’m not, this time. Am I really being discriminated against?
I’d just like to add, and I’m not backtracking on what I said above, that conference (wherever it is held) has been getting better and better for years, and that’s a testament to the hard work of Duncan Brack, Emma Harris and the FCC as well as the many volunteers. I’d hope my remarks could be seen in that context.
Has anyone thought about the fact that the Winter Gardens doesn’t even have a regular electricity supply? (If you don’t believe me, talk to the people who pay a small fortune to exhibit.)
Rob, thanks for the comments following Duncan’s posting. Liverpool is really hopeful. Assuming it works as a venue next spring (and I certainly hope and believe it will) we will try and go there for an autumn conference. The main problem for all venues (but particularly the ones in the North) is the finances. The venues are no longer owned / run by the Council (who care about the amount of money brought into the area). The venue managers are only interested in the amount of money they receive for the hire of the venue. They will not move from that position. The tough negotiations are with the Councils to see what they will do for us by offsetting the commercial rates charged by the venues. We nearly got there with Gateshead and I am hopeful we will get them to move at some stage in the future. They wanted us to guarantee the number of attendees using their accommodation bureau and the amount they would pay per night – something we did not feel able to do!!
I can assure you we do negotiate hard but unfortunately we do not negotiate from strength. Both the towns and the venues can get far more money from commercial conferences. There is another tough negotiation we face – an internal one. The more expensive the venue either the less the surplus that goes towards financing the party or the more registration rates will rise. I don’t want either of those to happen so we need to keep venue costs down. We will continue to pursue new conference venues. I am ‘from the South’ but would prefer to go to Northern venues. We are currently looking at Manchester, Birmingham, Gateshead, Southport, Scarborough, Edinburgh and Glasgow to name a few.
Andrew Wiseman (FCC Vice-Chair)
Is one issue not that seaside venues are more likely to grant a subvention as it brings in extra custom to the time at a point when the season has ended so can economically be justified?
Ultimately attending conference will come with a cost and in my experience the bulk of it is in accommodation rather than transport, something which I can’t see an easy way round. There are things like LDYS booking hostel accommodation but that is probably not desperately attractive to people above a certain age.
The party conference season is itself pretty anachronistic though – really it’s a silly time of year to hold it as some groups (teachers, some university students) can’t attend as they have other commitments at that time of year.
Conferences have always been pretty exclusive events, but the digital age has raised our expectations of accessibility.
I will be going this year, largely just to have done it once, but I don’t expect to go in future. A week off work and the cost of 5 Focuses does not seem good value.
It has a defining feature of a democratic party, or society or pressure group that it is goverened by an annual conference, exclusive thought that is, because there has never been an alternative. And such conferences have never been very efficient – sitting in a large room, listening to one person at a time, who may be a total bore, is not a great way to make decisions.
We should be finding ways to export some of the democratic processes of the party from the annual conference to an online process. Of course the internet is also exclusive. Not everybody has access. But it is much, much, much, much, much less exclusive than a physical conference.
The net of course is not as inspiring and motivating as processes that involve interacting with real people. So it is important not to try to do on the net things that aren’t suitable. I would certainly keep a weekend conference, possibly distributed over multiple locations. But we can, at last, do so much better than was possible a few years ago.
Duncan said: I have a great deal of sympathy for Ann Godden’s comments…across a range of years it’s not unreasonable to have a slight southern bias
Ann responds: Since we have more members in the south it’s okay to have a southern bias
Ann, I think you’re misreading, and I have to wonder why. Duncan’s response is fair, balanced and explanatory. The party would like to have more northern conferences. The FCC would like to have a better selection of venues.
For a variety of reasons they either aren’t available or unsuitable, but they continue to look and welcome suggestions. That’s fairly clear from pretty much every comment made by someone involved. I’m not sure why you’re so disappointed, your points have been answered and FCC is looking for more options having acknowledged it is a problem they would like to solve if possible.
Rob said: getting better and better … a testament to the hard work of [staff and] the many volunteers
Um, weren’t you one of those volunteers last two conferences? 😉
Joe said: I don’t expect to go in future
They’re always looking for volunteers to help out stewarding or on the registration desk–it’s the only way I can afford it as well.
I do like the tone of this discussion overall though, some good comments from people in the know–a credit to the site and it’s utility, really.
Mat, I’m not pleading poverty here. I’m just saying that the cost – most of which is a hotel room – would pay for a week’s holiday almost anywhere in the world, or (almost) next year’s local election campaign in my ward.
For a very minor input into the party’s democratic process, this doesn’t seem good value. In fact I expect to be at fringe events most of the time, which may be better value. But persuading the family that there is some point to abandoning them for a week is not something I could put my heart into again.
Surely their is more scope for car sharring within cities and regions. I got a lift to Blackpool in 2005 when I was living in York perhaps we should all use Flocktogether and other ways of internal communication to make it eassier for people to travel.
I sympathise with what’s been said, but the fundamental problem is that attending a conference anywhere for most of a week is always going to be fairly expensive, wherever it’s held. As someone has already mentioned, even a fairly expensive train journey is likely to be only a small part of the cost compared with the cost of accommodation and meals for 4 or 5 days. On that basis, even though I live in Yorkshire, I would be very loath to move away from the idea of holding Autumn Conference in major seaside resort, where there is likely to be plenty of fairly cheap accommodation within walking distance of the venue. Ironically, the cheapest venue we’ve used in recent years for me has been Torquay, even though it’s the longest distance to travel, because there are still plenty of good bed and breakfasts available for under £20 per night. I very much doubt that would be the case in Manchester, Liverpool, or Newcastle (it certainly wasn’t in Glasgow some years ago), and certainly not without paying significant amounts in taxi fares on a daily basis.
Ann,
I’m another Londoner, and frankly find Brighton to be amongst the worst place in terms of cost and relative standard of accommodation.
I liked Southport, love Harrogate, am intrigued by Newcastle and Manchester, and loathe Blackpool with a passion for a whole range of reasons too lengthy to go into.
However, Duncan and Andrew have made some entirely reasonable comments, and whilst I wish it wasn’t so, I fully understand their dilemma.
Chris Paul suggests that we fund delegates from local party funds, and whilst this is superficially attractive, it does tend to imply that said delegate votes the ‘line’ (Chris, you are proposing to tell me that mandates are a thing of the past, aren’t you? :-)), and fails to acknowledge the greater income available to Labour Party constituency associations.
It is, perhaps, an idea that we could have a fund to support delegates from Local Parties that might not otherwise be represented. The question is, how much of a grant would be required, and how would you conclude that someone was eligible? It isn’t a job that I for one would want…
A while back the FCC said they where looking at scraping the atumn conference and replacing it with 2 Fri-Sun Conferences in 2 City Centres.
Did anything ever come out of that?
There is a natural problem with the growth of conference as a fund-raising occasion, as well as a scheduled event on the political calendar.
The subject revisits an old centralisation/devolution debate upon which a position was taken within our party long ago, but which is only gradually evolving in practice.
Perhaps the slack could be taken up were more emphasis placed on our seasonal and regional conferences.
A quick response to Paul Harding’ comment. Earlier in the year FCC consulted over a proposal to move forward the autumn conference by a day, so that it will start on the Saturday and finish on the Wednesday. The response was very positive, so that’s what we’re going to do starting from next year, 2008. There was never any proposal to replace it with two weekend conferences.
Duncan
My apologies, I thought something was being looked into along the lines of the Conservatives move:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4513096.stm
Starting a Conference on the Saturday to make maximum use of the weekend is a great idea, maybe it is worth investigating getting a mini leaders speech on the Sunday afternoon, to attract a weekend crowd, the only disadvantage I can see is the inevitable decrease in TV news coverage on the evening news.
Why not consider going to Conference as a steward ? Firstly, you then get into Conference and all the associated paperwork, free!! Normal delegates must pay on average, over £100 for that alone. You get £30 towards your travel costs, not much maybe, but better than a kick in the teeth, and if a carload steward, they can claim £30 each, which should go a long way towards paying for petrol. You also get £20 per night towards the cost of your accommodation and finally you get £5 per session for each session (morning, afternoon or evening) that you work as a steward. You can still be a voting rep. You just won’t get to every session and every fringe. Provided you agree to steward for a reasonable number of sessions you can get a good part of the cost of conference repaid, and the camaraderie amongst the stewards is second to none. If you’re interested visit the libdem stewards webpage and contact Adrian Beavis. He will be delighted to hear from you.
Tim Young
Ribble South
5457459
Ok so you have to pay to attend a jolly for a week – not really bothered. I am bothered that in my ward the only electioneering has come from the incumbent Labour councillor who I truly do not want to vote for. However, since no one else has bothered to let local voters know even who they are (Ann G, I mean you) what chance of overturning the years of Labour naffness? Perhaps you can’t afford it? Get a grip all of you – telling voters who you are and what you stand for is a bit more important that whether you can attend a conference right now. Isn’t it?
I think the North/South, cost of conference is something we all suffer from. There are very few of us who can afford to go but we do. I personally set aside £50 a month into a savings account so that I can attend conference. OK that never covers the cost but it offsets it.
Why do I do it? Because I meet up with like minded people, get excellent training for free, manage to make contacts, find new ways of campaigning and at the end of the conference I go home rejuvenated that I believe in something that others do too.
As for the venues I am always happy to travel to new places. However, I would never return to Blackpool. It is a nice seaside town but with the venues being so far apart, the low standard of the accommodation (sorry, I like the sheets on the bed not to rip and the shower not to be covered in mould) and the lack of places to eat. That is unless you want to live on a diet of Kebabs and Fish and Chips.
Brighton, finally I have found a way to make Brighton cheaper and we are not going back for a while. I rented a house that had three double bedrooms and shared with two like minded friends, cost £200 a head. The original house had a flooding issue this year so we ended up in the Marina, not ideal but it was still much cheaper than normal. I have also tried staying in Travelodges out of town but that just crippled me in 2am Taxi fairs.
Harrogate, a great venue, although not enough restaurants, everything is in walking distance and the hotel and venue are next door to each other. That is a major miracle in my eyes.
Liverpool, I found the distance between the conference venue and the hotel a problem, especially in heels. The cost of accommodation was high; I actually found it was cheaper to stay in the conference venue than book elsewhere and pay for 2am Taxis. The service and people though were amazing. The reason I would go back – the people. The conference venue acoustics need to be resolved and the emptiness of the venue, not of people but of things – it was a conference in a box.
I do remember way back in the dim distant past going to Scarborough – it was the walk up and down the hill that got me, but I was 3 months pregnant with my eldest child.
Now, there are other issues on conference that I could rant on about. I took my children for the Saturday for Brighton but was not allowed to show them round the venue without paying for them to have conference badges, needless to say they did not see inside the venue. The cost of the hotel bar is another, but I guess that is par for the course and outside our control.
Has noone here discovered megabus or megatrain?
Ok, for this example, you have to be prepared to leave at
06:45 Depart Newcastle, Neville Street
Arrive London, Victoria Coach Station 14:00 1 seat = £1.00
15:30 Depart London, Victoria Coach Station
Arrive Bournemouth Uni, Talbot Campus 18:15 1 seat = £1.00
So you can get to conference for £2
Can’t search for return times at the mo, but usually £12.50 is the most expensive fare on megabus/train.
You don’t have to stay in the conference hotel, there are other perfectly comfortable places that are more affordable.
WOOD LODGE HOTEL
Relax and unwind at this centrally situated beautiful hotel.
Bed & Breakfast £29-£50
Half Board £44-£65
THE HEDLEY HOTEL
Ideally situated close to the B.I.C., pier, beaches and town centre.
Bed & Breakfast £25-£44
I appreciate the efforts that FCC are making towards Northern & Scottish venues for Federal Autumn conference but progress does need to made soon. This year will be my 4th Autumn conference in the last 5 years and the venues have been Bournemouth, Blackpool, Brighton, Brighton (missed that one) and Bournemouth. This is totally unfair on us Scots and Northerners and is a major reason why so few Scots go other than parliamentarians and their staff. I’m an Office Bearer (Conference Committee Convener) of the Scottish party and I probably would not be able to attend this year if it were not for the fact that I’m employed by a parliamentarian who wants me to attend with her.
At a rough reckoning my 5 nights in Bournemouth will cost at least £600, before I’ve bought food or sipped a glass of red, which is roughly half the price of my 12 night holiday in Barbados. If cost was the only consideration I’d be in the caribbean anytime rather than a slightly decaying British seaside resort.There’s the nub though – Federal Conference is not just the cost. for me it’s meeting up with old friends, making new friends, the fringe meetings, the training, networking, the exhibition etc etc.
So I guess that I’ll make the best of this year’s autumn conference as it might be my last for a while as my employer retires next year.