Many people think of the Liberal Democrats as a family. I know that I have often felt part of a huge family when I have been across on ‘the other off-shore island’ whether it’s at conferences – Federal Party, Scottish Party, or LDYS (oops: I’m showing my age) – or helping with elections be they local elections in Manchester with Cllr Paul Shannon and our dear friend the late Neil Trafford, or when I helped in Ipswich with all the camaraderie that was there.
Most families have a member that they would prefer to forget about: a person that doesn’t quite fit in with the collective view (whatever that is) of how the family should be. Perhaps that person is unmarried, or divorced, is ill, is gay, is of a different religion or political persuasion. Whatever it is, it is often without due cause. For each family is just that, a family.
Sometimes it feels that the Northern Ireland Liberal Democrats (NLID) are that forgotten relation. Many that do know of our existence seem to think that we are the same as the Alliance Party of Northern Ireland: but we are not. It is true that there are many dual members, that is people who are members of both the Alliance Party and NILD, but there are also others who are very definitely members of one and not the other. This dual membership is only due to NILD not standing (currently) in elections in Northern Ireland.
NILD does exist independently of the Alliance Party. I am grateful for all the assistance that Stephen Glenn has given to us in helping to raise our profile since he was ‘repatriated’ from Scotland. The Lib Dems in Northern Ireland blog continues to be read by many people, and we try to keep it lively with comment on what is going on here. We try to respond to consultations from the Northern Ireland Executive or HM Government in the United Kingdom when it is clear that we have something particular to contribute. We have a LGBT Lib Dems branch and some active members of Liberal Youth among our members. Lord Alderdice continues to work hard for the Party in the House of Lords.
However, whatever work we do in the small way that we can for LibDem values here, it is not the same as if we were working towards elections. Stephen and I were sat watching Federal Conference in September 2010 at a friend’s (where I was recuperating from an operation) and heard the words of our leader Nick Clegg:
The Lib Dems will be standing in all constituencies in the UK in 2015.
I hope that Nick meant what he said and indeed that he said what he meant. It seems clear to me that it would be better for us here to stand in local elections first, and then build up towards the Westminster ones. Liberal Democrats know and are good at community politics: and where we work, we win. Are the LibDems going to be the only main UK party that is not standing in Northern Ireland in 2015? Does the party really think that the Northern Ireland electorate would not benefit from hearing from us? I hear rumours that both the other parties are looking to organise here, so why not us?
Michael Carchrie Campbell is Chair of Northern Ireland Liberal Democrats and blogs at Gyronny Herald
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13 Comments
This article fails to make it clear why Liberal Democrats don’t stand against the Alliance in Northern Ireland – and indeed why it’s the Alliance who stands all the candidates. It also fails to propose solutions – should the Lib Dems stand candidates against the Alliance? Stand candidates in 50% of NI seats, with the Alliance not standing against us? Stand “joint ticket” Lib Dem-Alliance candidates as per the “Labour Co-Operative” MPs? Why would any of these be the right thing to do, and what do the Alliance think of it?
In general, I’m in favour of giving people the option of voting Liberal Democrat on every possible occasion – but I’m used to elections where we’re the only liberal party standing against illiberal Tory and Labour. If our agreement not to stand against the Alliance is in the name of getting liberal politicians elected to further the ideals that our party supports, then I’m not sure we should sacrifice that just to have a Bird of Liberty on the ballot paper.
I support what Michael says – another option is changing our constitution to allow joint candidates in Northern Ireland, so where someone is an Alliance & Lib Dem member (and approved & selected to stand) they can appear so on the ballot paper. This won’t stop single party candidates, just avoid duplication.
This exactly what members of the Co-operative Party & Labour Party do on this side of the water. Hence the number of Labour Co-op MPs and Councillors
I used to be very comfortable with the Alliance party as our sister party in NI. I’m not quite as comfortable now that they have withdrawn from ELDR (although I believe they are still in Liberal International) and don’t sit on the same bench as us in parliament. Not sure the time has come to stand against them (as the tories found out, it can be pointless – and that was when standing with the Ulster Unionists) but I would be interested in how strong the links with us and Alliance are these days.
Injecting a note of realpolitk – bearing in mind our current position, do we really think that the Alliance would want to have joint candidates with us?
However, we have to start from here so, if you want to stand, I suggest you try in a council seat where the Alliance don’t stand or where they can’t put up a full sheet.
Neil or someone else – sorry, I have clearly not kept up. When did Alliance leave ELDR, and for what reason? And what bench do Alliance sit on in Parliament?
Why would anyone want to split the vote? Even for those elections which use STV, this would surely damage the APNI without leading to any sensible gain for the LDs. It would be best if the LDs kept the realities of NI politics in mind: they haven’t a sensible mission there, nor a realistic hope.
I write as a strong supporter of both parties.
Rather than competing with the Alliance Party, I would suggest that it would be more useful to maintain and extend co-operation in the Commons and the Lords, formally and informally. Don’t expect 100%, 90% or even 80% agreement on all issues: the LDs and the APNI are and will remain separate parties. If there was a vacancy for a post in the UK government’s NI Office, I would be happy to see an APNI member of either chamber invited. Being a member of the UK government might improve the profile of the Alliance Party; it has been many decades since a sitting Northern Irish parliamentarian was a member of the government. I recognise that the Alliance Party might be likely to decline such an invitation for electoral reasons – no one likes bearing the responsibility for difficult decisions – but it should be pointed out that it was the only major NI party which stood on the ostensibly unpopular platform of taking on the difficult steps needed to reform Northern Ireland’s water services. It gained votes in the local elections, defying the idea that parties can only gain by sweet soaping the electorate.
I would also echo the question above: when and why did the AP leave the ELDR? It comes as strange, disappointing news.
As the author of the post, I will attempt to answer some of the points raised.
Not standing against Alliance
It has been the policy of the local party of the Liberal Democrats to not stand against the Alliance Party for many years. The reasons are somewhat lost in the depths of time, as I have never been able to get a clear answer from others on this issue. From my personal point of view, it has been because Alliance had been our sister party in ELDR and still is in LI.
Links with Alliance
There are quite a few members of the NI LibDems who are also members of the Alliance Party. I know who some of them are, and some of them are sitting elected representatives at the highest level in Northern Ireland. There are many Alliance elected representatives who have told me that they want nothing to do with the LibDems.
It is clear that there are benefits to Alliance being linked with the LibDems, and certainly the Federal Party Decided that it will not make policy on devolved issues but to leave it to the Alliance Party (I think this was in 1995). There appears to have been a hope by some people (on both sides of the Irish Sea) that the Alliance Party would become the ‘Northern Irish State Party of the Lib Dems’. I cannot see that happening: there are too many within Alliance who are downright anti-LibDem.
Standing in a Council seat
I’d love to run a LibDem candidate in a council area that Alliance have either no chance or no candidate. The problem with this is that we are not registered as a political party on the Northern Ireland Register, and I cannot get an answer from LibDem HQ on whether we can go ahead to register.
Alliance in the Commons
Alliance sits on the Opposition bench in the Commons. I am not aware of any Alliance Party Peers although there may be Peers who are members of the Alliance Party. There may still be LibDem MPs who are additionally members of the Alliance Party – to add to the confusion.
Asking the question…
I wrote the article and asked the question because for me the debate has gone on long enough and never seems to be answered. I would like to know what others think are the benefits of having a Northern Ireland local party.
I think this post is conflating two things – should there be a Liberal Democrat state party for Northern Ireland, as per England, Wales and Scotland? I don’t see why not, particularly if certain policy areas are devolved to the Assembly – it would make sense for decisions on those policy areas to be taken at the appropriate level.
Secondly, should the Liberal Democrats fight elections in Northern Ireland? That would be a matter for the Northern Ireland state party to decide – though I expect its constitution, like its counterparts’, would state that one of the objectives of the party is to secure the election of Liberal Democrats…
“The Lib Dems will be standing in all constituencies in the UK in 2015”
It’s not Michael’s main point but I don’t think we have ever even stood in all the constituencies in England, Scotland and Wales. As well as the Speaker’s seat we did not contest Woolwich and Greenwich in 1992, Tatton in 1997 and Wyre Forest in 2001 and 2005.
“like its counterparts’, would state that one of the objectives of the party is to secure the election of Liberal Democrats…”
The English party constitution doesn’t state that though 🙂
@Paul McKeown
“it has been many decades since a sitting Northern Irish {Westminster} parliamentarian was a member of the government.”
I think that would be Colonel (later Lord) Robert Grosvenor (later Duke of Westminster) MP for Fermanagh & South Tyrone who was PPS to Selwyn Lloyd in the 1950s. At that time the Conservatives and Ulster Unionists were one party. In fact, the support of the nine Ulster Unionists elected in 1951, probably did a lot to stabilise Winston Churchill’s government. (Without them he wouldn’t have had a majority.)
I think there are several things wrong with this approach.
One is that the pool of people willing to vote for non-sectarian parties in Northern Ireland remains disappointingly small, so I think it would be electoral suicide to split it.
Secondly, yoking a NI party to its London brethren has a poor history. The Ulster Unionists split from the Conservatives under Heath in 1970s. People standing as Conservatives got minimal support, and it’s only recently, after the Ulster Unionists had lost most of their traditional support to the less patrician DUP, that their union was re-made.
Labour in Northern Ireland had continuous problems with splits over partition, and when it split about the same time (1970s), anti-partition sentiment at Westminster caused London to shut down the then mainly unionist-inclined Northern Ireland Labour Party.
Naomi Long’s seat in East Belfast first had substantial vote for the NILP, then its shipyard workers, having both working class and unionist views went to the DUP. I think her electorate, a bit leery of the toffee-nosed attitudes of traditional Unionist/Conservatives, are probably pretty happy with her sitting on the opposition benches at Westminster.
So, if you live in Northern Ireland, and think of yourself as a LibDem, by all means join the party, meet with like minded souls, even go to conference. If you want to get people pretty close to you elected, also join Alliance and campaign inside them. If you think joining two parties at once is a fudge, please remember that much that works in Northern Ireland, works because of fudges. It was because people of “principle” wouldn’t accept any fudges that there were 30 years of Troubles and more than 3000 people died.
@M Carchrie Campbell
“There are many Alliance elected representatives who have told me that they want nothing to do with the LibDems.”
I’m not surprised. A lot of believers in “old-time religion”, both Protestant and Catholic, wouldn’t like many of the LibDems more advanced social policies. So some Alliance members may be colder out of principle. (Actually, the same people are probably not too happy with London Labour and Conservative views on this issues either.) It’s this sort of issue that probably pushes people towards sectarian parties.
Alliance (and we LibDems) need to get more people out of the habit of voting for sectarian parties.
Also how keen would you be on the coalition in an place with a long history of industrial and agricultural unemployment and relative over-dependance on the public sector?
Of course another issue that Michael didn’t mention above is that barring a Westminster MP dying the next election here in Northern Ireland would be the European elections. There are no by elections for the Assembly or Council seats but a designated replacement from the party that won the seat. Therefore the chances of contesting say a by election as a water tester is non-existent.
Something else that we are away of is the Labour are now setting up constituency branches over here and as has been noted above the Conservatives already have that structure.