I was lucky to grow up in a quiet little village. On one side the village is straddled by an air strip and Cranfield University. The Uni is postgraduate and as a result takes in a lot of foreign students – over a third of a 4,000 population. As a result in early years of school especially I met a lot of students from foreign cultures and many have grown up to be close friends. I also had the “pleasure” to grow up in a Conservative safe seat. Following corruption charges the Howard babe Nadine Dorries was moved in, who has rapidly become the rising female star of the Conservatives.
As a nurse, divorcé and council estate child I would expect more of Nadine than her recent comments on her blog regarding the creation of a Central Oxford Mosque:
Apparently, the minaret of a mosque, which will be built in Oxford, will stand taller than the dreamy spires… Whereas anyone walking by may not even notice the towering height, casting a shadow over a dreamy spire, to the Islamist it represents a triumphant call to arms.
By such logic my sister and mother who rings the local church bells are also terrorists – my mother is in fact a atheist who keeps fit by calling Christians to prayer.
Nadine should explain why rather than working with the Mosque to further understanding and integration she immediately jumps to a position of condemnation, accusing it of been a terrorist building “giving calls to arms” and by implication labelling all worshippers as terrorists. Comments like this can only increase the problems we face not solve them.
Such comments put doubt on how much I should expect from my MP. Tolerance and open mindedness are obviously not values she can live up to, instead falling immediately into intolerance and suspicion. To be frank, Islamaphobia isn’t an unreasonable accusation to throw her way. Such comments feed that constant voice in your head, that makes you really ask how deep the change in the Conservative party goes? It serves to only confirm that for at least some Tories the values which Cameron espouses is not a default position.
Christopher Leslie is a Mid Beds constituent and member of the Lib Dems.
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19 Comments
Sometimes people call me “Islamaphobic” though I really can’t think why. Strictly speaking, the word means, “fear of Islam” – but I’m not afraid of Islam.
I’m absolutely terrified.
Yes, Laurence Boyce. Same goes for Christianity and any other cult that is asserting itself. We should be like the old-school anticlericals in Europe. Voltaire should be our guide, not Rowan sodding Williams.
We should be letting go of God and looking forward to a free life.
I add that I don’t agree with those who bash Islam but support Christianty, or those (all too common on the left) who attack Christinsanity but are silent on Islam. We should have the same approach to all “faiths”.
Yes, why is it so rare to find people who are prepared to go after the whole lot of them?
I disagree with the comments above. Islam is different to Christianity, because it has no injunction to “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s”. It does not accept that it has to bow before the law.
I make my main focus on Islam, because I think Islam is the biggest oppressive religious force in this country. If I lived in the USA, it would be Christianity.
I’m really wondering what a liberal party is for if not to defend individual rights against oppression. Liberalism is NOT political correctness, multicultism and what have you. I’m on the side of the homosexuals, women and “apostates” that the Rowan Williamses of this world would throw to the wolves.
I fail entirely to see why we should be showing “respect” (deference) to unfounded claims about mythical beings.
As you will probably see, this is one of my pet grievances. 🙂
Asquith
A bit of a shock to find ourselves in agreement, I must say!
There is much too much woolly liberalism going on and not enough of the muscular kind.
I’m not sure that I entirely share your feelings about US Christianity, but it’s not something I follow closely. What kind of oppression are you thinking of?
Yes, US Christianity is particularly scary, not least because they rule the world. But as far as Islam in the UK is concerned, well . . . we’ve got the stats, we’ve seen the evidence, and . . . some of us are still plainly very much in de Nile.
I also think it is particularly unfortunate that this article tries to make an anti-Tory point out of the issue. Obviously, I am no fan of the Conservatives and, as MPs go, Nadine Dorries is about as ignorant as they come. But, just as with climate change, it is imperative that we seek to create a united front against the Islamist threat.
Suffice it to say that if the only people who are prepared to blow the whistle on Islam are racists or conservative Christians, then we have got a major problem on our hands.
Bishop Hill, we’re not actually very far apart at all. It’s just that you take libertarianism a bit too far for me. 😉
I’m talking about people like Pat Robertson and the US evangelicals who are staggeringly influential on the Bush admin. If I lived in the USA, I’d be decrying them for their reactionary views and bewailing their influence.
It’s just a way of saying that I’m even-handed, completely so.
Johann Hari has sensible views on the matter:
http://tinyurl.com/2ob43b (et passim)
By the way, I’d be very interested to hear what the Deputy Lord Mayor of Oxford thinks about all of this. Anyone know who he is?
Yes, I go out drinking with him. I’ll pass your message on.
I’m a bit weary of calls for muscular liberalism because i tend to automatically think ‘Iraq’ and ‘Afghanistan’ which to my mind have been all about brawn with no or very little brains involved….
Its perfectly understandable why people would be afraid but let’s be honest fear isnt always the most rational emotion and it doesnt always lead us to the best places…so letting it temper our politics is not always the best idea…
Calling the building of a Mosque a ‘call to arms’ is patently hyperbolic to say the least and we should expect alot more of it from the Tories to come, especially if the next election looks as though it is going to be close…we need to be at all times realistic about what we are dealing with and not sweep it under the carpet but also not overinflate it and pander to those who do to pursue their own ideological agenda (good example of that currently residing in the White House)…
To be honest, without a greater context, the quote to me simply says that she thinks the mosque is wrong to overshadow all around it and that the “call-to-arms” is a rallying cry to show muslims that if they can bring Islam to dominance in one area of the UK, they should go out and do it in others.
That behaviour I feel is insidious, intolerant, extremely illiberal and shows a gross lack of respect for the existing culture and historical skyline. But what does it have to do with terrorism? It’s just another attempt of yet another religion to force us to bow to it’s views or cower in the shadows of their buildings. At the most it’s an attack using oversized architecture.
Tell them it has to be a telescopic tower and that it may only be up for a maximum 60 minutes day (enough to call to prayer 3 times) and then let them build it. If its up for more than 60 minutes it violates planning permission and things that do that get torn down.
On US christianity:
Around 60% of Americans believe evolution to be a lie and that god created the earth and humans fully formed. But that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
7 States have laws (and/or constitutions) that explicitly prevent atheists from taking jobs, being witnesses or jurors. Laws along the lines of “No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court” of Arkansas. Only South Carolina has tried to enforce that recently and lost in the supreme court, the laws are still there though.
George Bush Sr. (while running for President) said: “No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.” Congress and the Senate were asked to censor him, not one of them replied to the letter.
Unfortunately this is the view of the majority of Americans, with many Americans automatically associating atheism with evil and deceit.
A US soldier, with two completed tours in Iraq has been force to take the US Army to court alleging that officers in the US army prevented him having a meeting of atheists and non-Christians and have since attempted to destroy his career. There are many more such stories.
Children of atheist at many schools (especially rural ones) are ostracised, picked on, excluded from sports (by virtue of being discriminated against during team selection) and so forth. Some have had to be withdrawn from school entirely and home schooled because school became intolerable.
Except for activists most atheists’ close families don’t even know of their views, simply because it would be the end of their social and family lives. This is starting to change slowly, thanks mostly to the recent books and lectures by Dawkins, Hitchens et al.
Only one senior politician in the US (Congressman Peter Stark) has admitted to not believing in a god. Surveys show lack of belief to be most common in the most educated and most intelligent people (Only 7.9% of “greater” US scientists believe in a god (Nature, Vol. 394, No. 6691, p. 313)), others show that at least 5-10% of the US population is openly (in polls) atheist. If you allow that US politicians are intelligent and well educated then statistically that means that a considerable number of senior US politicians felt they needed to lie about their views to get elected.
I have no idea what she’s referring to about this mosque “to be built” in Oxford though. More shit stirring. We’ve already got the only one that’s likely to be built specially. It’ been open for several years now. It is not juxtaposed with the “dreaming spires” since it’s half way down the Cowley Road. And I frankly doubt, standing underneath it, that it’s even remotely comparable to Magdalen Tower in height or as striking as the campanile on St Barnabus.
There is a new Oxford International Centre for Islamic Studies just across the road from me, the exterior of which has been completed but still being fitted out. But it does not have a minaret as such, since it’s not a mosque, but it has a tower that looks like a minaret done in some kind of decorated gothic, all in Cotswold stone and is quite beautiful, despite me consistently voting against it during the planning process (it is essentially a new Oxford college style building creeping out into suburbia which was my objection, and it would have been better in town alongside all the other collegiate buildings).
But it a place of study, not worship, is funded by the Tories’ best Saudi friends and has Prince Charles as its patron.
Shit stirring Tory beard as far as I can see.
Asquith
I gathered you were talking about Pat Robertson, and I know he has reactionary views. What I couldn’t follow was your use of the word “oppressive”. He and George W aren’t oppressing anyone are they?
Yes, to be honest, they are. These beliefs have fed a culture of intolerance of the kind that MartinSGill describes. People who don’t believe in a god are victimised and have to hide their unbelief.
We could be seeing that in this country soon. People seriously tried to say that it was a point against Clegg that he is an atheist, as if religious belief is somehow an asset in 2008. Whereas I thought he didn’t go far enough, and it was supine to have his children educated as Catholics. Since when has the Church of Rome been liberal, then?
We’ve seen many things. New Labour’s attempt to suppress religious descent, various fundamentalists (now including Christians) trying to use censorship, it’s time to put our foot down.
Yes, muscular liberalism. And I know, Darrell and others, that this term is often associated with the Christopher Hitchens/Harry’s Place brigade. But I was against the Iraq adventure from the beginning. I don’t believe in ideologies or messianic faiths, I believe in human freedom and progress. I thought that was the meaning of liberalism.
Its not the place of liberalism to attack religion and force atheism on people which seems to be the idea alot of people here are proposing.
Whether or not she was referring to terrorism the language she uses is extremely in unsuitable.
What annoys me most about this is that she can sit there quietly typing these comments away and the scrutiny of those comments isn’t there. My comments about the tory’s in general is to try and maybe stimulate some of them to think about what she has said. Its interesting how her own blog has actually increased my ability to scrutinize my MP, now i just hope that she will reply to some the email i sent complaining so at least she can explain herself.
Calling the building of a Mosque a ‘call to arms’ is patently hyperbolic to say the least.
It’s only hyperbolic, Darrell, if that is not the way a large number of British Muslims are thinking. I so wish I could agree with you but, given what we actually know, it’s really hard to be so sure.
I hope you’ve challenged her on her facts as well, Chris. Oxford Central Mosque was already open and holding public open days in mid-2006. If she’s going to use some forthcoming event to stir it ought to be true at least!