Paddy Ashdown is one of the names behind a new progressive, liberal political movement which will campaign on issues close to many of our hearts. It will set out ideas on political reform, our role in the world and demand a second electoral test of any Brexit settlement.
The Guardian reports:
The initiative is not a political party, nor an attempt to create a new centrist one on the model of the SDP in the 1980s. But if the movement were to succeed in attracting subscribers to a website, it could intervene in politics by recommending specific candidates at the next election.
The proposal is one of many ideas floating on the centre-left in the wake of the EU referendum and will be formally launched within a week. It is likely to support a second endorsement of Britain’s exit from the European Union if circumstances required or permitted, as well as welcoming immigration and globalisation, a green economy, modern democracy that empowers citizens and a fair economy that seeks to narrow the gap between rich and poor.
It is understood a collection of convenors would seek to give the initiative political direction and oversee the gathering of names though to mid-September. Sources involved in setting up the movement stressed it would be a gathering point, and would not seeking to stand candidates at elections, but if as many as 200,000 were prepared to sign up, a new centre-left force could be formed that could endorse a specific existing party candidate at as many as 50 seats at the election.
At the weekend, Tim Farron talked about this sort of realignment to the Independent:
“My sense is that one of the many outcomes of the referendum is the fact that progressives have rather enjoyed one another’s company on the campaign trail… there are loads of people out there who you realise in this most calamitous and febrile set of circumstances you share a lot more in common with them than the fact you want to be in the European Union. So realignment is a real, real possibility”.
We need to tread with caution, but with a determination to get the Tories out of power. That will mean working with people from other parties and of no party. This is not a time to be all precious about talking to people – and that applies to all progressives. The key to all of this has got to be electoral reform. People need to get the Parliament they ask for in a way that they haven’t for a very long time. That will enable political discourse to mature.
What do you think of all this?
* Caron Lindsay is Editor of Liberal Democrat Voice and blogs at Caron's Musings. You can find her on Bluesky at caronmlindsay.bsky.social
Follow @libdemvoice.org on Bluesky
Like us on Facebook
Subscribe to our feed
Sign-up for our daily email digest
How Chancellor Reeves torpedoed the economy
The Disneyfication of Haley Mills
Survation now put Andy Burnham 10 points ahead in Makerfield
Michael Meadowcroft: A Liberal of Intellectual Rigour and Uncommon Integrity
Chris Cory
Ruth Bright
BigTallTim
Daniel Walker
Richard Good
56 Comments
This sounds like great news and somethi ng very positive. I believe Corbyn will be re-elected as Labour leader and that will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for many Labour MPs and Social Democrat Labour members and voters. Jess Phillips MP said as much on Channel 4 news this evening. Handled correctly, with the right co-operative spirit from all involved it should attract enough support to do very well. And there are 4 years to organise for a general election, though, despite what she says now, Mrs May would be mad not to exploit the total shambles within Labour by calling an election sooner.
I will eat my hat if this amounts to anything much.
Count me out. I’m not in this Party to help my opportunist expense-loving Labour wastrel of an MP get re-elected.
Whilst nothing can surprise me given May’s bizarre Cabinet choices an early election is likely to push the Tory balance to the right towards hard Brexit and a certainty that Scotland will leave the UK. She will not want to go down in history as the PM who presided over the breakup of the UK alongside what is likely to be a bumpy economic ride for a while. When it comes to keeping her backbenchers in line that narrow majority works in her favour. There’s also a risk of UKIP gains, and she needs to bury them not give them a 5 year lifeline.
The Fixed-term Parliaments Act prevents her calling an election at will unless the Government is willing to pass a vote of no confidence in itself, even if the Speaker allowed it, and Labour and the SNP are not going to give her the super-majority she needs otherwise. They could try to repeal the Act but then the Lords comes into play. It’s not a viable option.
‘modern democracy that empowers citizens’
We have just had an excellent example of that on 23 June, seems from the article it was the wrong type of democracy as Ashdown wants another referendum.
Can’t imagine he would be talking about a second vote if Remain had won by the same margin.
Principle without the ability to make a difference is futile. This is a great opportunity to create a strong centre ground movement that puts social liberalism at its core. Where do I sign up?
I’ve read the Guardian article and I’m not a fan of the initiative. It looks like it wants to set up the Guardianista party and will struggle in both inner cities and rich areas.
With all that has happened with the rise of populism, more of the same “pro globalisation” won’t do and people’s concerns are not just about economics.
Of course we shouldn’t pander to ignorance, but you don’t have to pander to ignorance to accept more of the same can’t go on. Electoral reform would be good though (I’m not really a flip-flopper on this, I used to simply support more MPs or better boundaries).
Watchful waiting. This seems to be entirely contingent on what Labour does following a leadership election, and while I think the Lib Dems should be welcoming to any new supporters of our policies, we should focus on our recent new joiners and current support first.
That’s not to say I’m not excited at the prospect of increased co-operation across the centre-left; we need a united fightback from all parties left of the Tories. It’s just that there are a lot of people in Britain’s electorate who aren’t interested in Westminster politics, and I’m not sure any of this appeals to them.
I’d hope that this realignment of the left will do more to reach out to regular people, or we’re just not going to claw support back from the Tories.
Brexit won and old politicians like Paddy Ashdown won’t change that. TVoters
Given our post-Coalition weakness I can understand why people who are unhappy in the Labour Party and those who currently regard themselves as being non-party but progressive might not see us as being the most obvious platform for a realignment of British politics. However, we are in this situation because the Party leadership appeared only too happy to do a deal with the Tories. Paddy, on the other hand, was bending over backwards to do a deal with New Labour which fortunately never came to anything. We should be articulating our liberal values and principles as loudly as we can, and rebuilding the Party as the non-doctrinaire, green, internationalist, liberal force that it was becoming before Charles Kennedy was ousted.
Brexit won and old politicians like Paddy Ashdown won’t change that. Except for Lib Dem’s, voters have little or no interest in political reform and who would want to join a new progressive liberal movement except for Lib Dems. Get back to the economy, health, education and public services – thing you used to be good at.
This is an excellent idea & much better than trying to repeat The Alliance with its formal agreements on Policy & who stood for which seat. Clearly there will be places where “More in Common” gives it approval to 2 or 3 candidates, that will lead to some duplication of effort but The Voters might find themselves respecting that.
On the timing of any Election, we dont know how things will work out in practise. The Tories could simply propose an Election & challenge other Parties to back the motion or come up with a good reason not to. The problem for any Party in Opposition is that, if they turn down the chance for an early contest, that amounts to saying : “Carry on, You are doing OK.” Whats the point of opposing the Government if you arent prepared to get rid of it ?
Of course, We & Labour could say that we werent ready yet but that would look a bit pathetic.
Oh OK, anything that interests Guardian readers won’t work, anything that attracts a mixture of good people along with some bad ones won’t work, anything that sullies doctrinal purity won’t work, anything led by an old person won’t work. Nothing that tries to make a difference will ever work, we’ll leave that sort of thing to UKIP. Let’s just carry on enjoying going gently nowhere.
Paddy hasn’t learned from last time, has he?
As Richard Gadsden said on twitter yesterday: when labour types say they want a “progressive alliance” but no PR, we hear “we want to destroy your party”.
Good idea however I remain sceptical that it isn’t a way of merging our party into a Labour splinter group whom we can agree on much except they are authoritarian and we are liberal
This sort of talk makes me start to twitch nervously. The “moderate labour”, “pro-EU Tories” and Green party members had (and still have) a choice, and they didn’t choose to join the Lib Dems.
Moderate Labour doesn’t want an alliance, coalition, whatever. It wants it’s own Labour faction back in control of the party, and and then it wants power.
As Jennie suggests, a commitment to PR has to be a red line. If we can cooperate long enough to make that happen, the issue largely goes away. Just like the EU parliament and many other legislatures the deals can be fluid and flexible, and happen after the election.
Until we have PR, all progressive parties have to bite the bullet and do what it takes.
If there is to be co-operation with other progressive centre-left people from other parties, let us start from a firm foundation. Both the Conservatives and Labour have let down the country badly in the past year. The Liberal Democrats have not. We were the only one of the three major parties to show enthusiasm for and commitment to a reformed EU. We have stayed true since the Coalition days to our principles and values. We have the integrity, the fixed purposes and the moral authority now. So it is essential that in any talks and negotiations that WE TAKE THE LEAD. Moreover we must not trust politicians from EITHER the Tories or Labour, however sympathetic and reasonable they have seemed to Tim in his recent encounters. They will try to use us and turn on us when it is convenient, as they have done in the past. We may be able to work out a common platform, but co-operation in an election when it comes to sharing out seats is problematic. And any idea of taking ministerial posts short of actually being in coalition in a future government should be ruled out. Finally, Caron is right to say that agreement on electoral reform is key.
One concern I have is the repeated reference to this being aimed at “the centre-left”. Both the Guardian and Independent say that, but maybe that is just sloppy (and inward looking) journalism on their part.
I think Ted Logan is correct to refer to the need to address anybody to the left of the Tories. And that means that we should be thinking about the centre-left and the centre.
If we are not interested in thos who see themselves as being in “the centre” that has dire electoral consequences. The reason being that it implies the following natural homes for voters if we divide them up into 5 equal quintiles, each with 20% of the electorate in them:
1. Left – naturally supporting Corbynite Party/SWP/TUSC etc
2. Centre-Left – naturally supporting the group this article describes
3. Centre – naturally supporting who? The Conservatives?
4. Centre-Right – naturally supporting the Conservatives
5. Right – naturally supporting UKIP/BNP etc
The problem with not also thinking about the Centre quintile is that it concedes 40% of the electorate to the Conservatives, which is enough to guarantee their hegemony.
No PR, no deal. Flat.
I’ll accept a PR replacement for the *Lords*, at a minimum.
More top-down Bubble-based rubbish. Why does Paddy never learn?
Tony Greaves
Simon
Your identification of the political spectrum does not reflect the actuality. The far left and right are not identified, neither are the hard left and right.
I see the spectrum as follows
Far Left – Communism and it’s spin offs such as Marxist-Leninism and Trotskyism.
Hard Left – The true socialists.
Left – Remnants of the Parliamentary Labour Party including the present (softened) position of Corbyn and Skinner. Much of the Labour membership
Centre Left – Social Liberalism
Centre – Here I would agree with you.
Centre Right – Economic or Classical Liberalism, New labour, Tory Wets.
Right – The mainstream Tory party including much of it’s membership
Hard right – The Thatcher element, some of UKIP
Far Right – Facists, BNP, EDL some of UKIP.
If (say) Andrea Leadsom had emerged as Conservative leader or in some other way the Conservatives were facing the kind of forces towards internal rupture of the kind facing the Labour party, there would be a good basis for moves towards a broad progressive centre grouping. However there is every sign at present that for some time to come Theresa May will be able to keep the right and centre-right factions within Toryism together. This would simply mean that any new grouping would be no more than providing some sort of soft landing for the right wing (largely Blairite and keeping their powder very dry right now) of the fractured Labour party – with little prospect of winning any election unless May crashes and burns in some way.
To my mind the Lib Dems should only contemplate diluting its own separate mandate if this would lead to a genuinely broad and progressive movement with a real likelihood of winning the next general election . I do not see this in prospect at this time.
“More top-down Bubble-based rubbish”
Errr, I’m disagreeing with Paddy and agreeing with Tony Greaves. I think I need a lie down…
Not surprisingly, agree with Tony.
And not the least bit impressed with Owen Smith either …….. there’s something of the minor American politician about him……… and his lobbying past raises a few questions. As to charisma and leadership qualities……. he got short shrift in the Blaenua Gwent by-election in 2006. Surely Labour can do better than this ?
Where can we learn more?
@David Raw “Surely Labour can do better than this ?”
Given that conspiring Labour MPs only seem capable of attacking Corbyn on his lack of leadership, it is telling that no-one who has stepped out of the shadows to challenge him openly shows any leadership skills of their own. I often wonder who is pulling the strings behind the scenes, planning to step out of the shadows as the party’s saviour once MPs have managed to subvert the members’ wishes by ousting Corbyn: surely Labour MPs can’t really be this useless?
Hard Left – The true socialists. (Simon)
The only “true socialists” are in the Socialist Party of Great Britain. Anything else, from SWP to CPGB to Labour is shades of state controlled capitalism.
@ Matthew Brown “Where can we learn more”……..The Guardian yesterday.
‘Before he became an MP, Smith worked for five years as a lobbyist in the pharmaceutical industry first for US group Pfizer and then for controversial biotech firm Amgen. The Guardian revealed on Tuesday that Smith was in charge of corporate affairs, corporate and internal communications and public affairs at the British division of Amgen while the biotech company was battling an investigation into one of its anaemia drugs.
While at Pfizer in 2005 Smith endorsed a Pfizer-backed report offering NHS patients easier access to private-sector healthcare. The Times revealed that he said: “We believe that choice is a good thing and that patients and healthcare professionals should be at the heart of developing the agenda.”
He also lost Blaenau Gwent (the old seat of Nye Bevan and Michael Foot) in a by-election in 2006 to an independent. He now claims to”agree with Jeremy” on policy….. but claims he is ‘a better manager and better leader’.
Big Pal of Peter Hain…… (formerly a radical, and formerly of this Parish many moons ago). Compares himself to Nye….. which is a bit like a gnat to an elephant.
These so-called moderate MPs are the ones who (or who got their allies to) tried to reinterpret their party’s rules to prevent their elected leader from defending his position, changed the rules to bar thousands of members from participating in the vote despite this having been promised to them when they signed up and paid, have barred all local party meetings across the whole country for at least two months, have today closed down two constituency parties, have issued the most ridiculous set of rules such that any new member (but not old member) caught ‘eye rolling’ or ‘tutting’ at a party meeting or using a rude word in Twitter can be expelled, and now in the process of taking their own party to court?
All because they don’t like the leader their members chose, but can’t find anyone credible to take him on and/or appear to have no coherent or attractive policy platform of their own.
And we’re to think about supporting these people because having wrecked their own party they might need a new home?
There are only 2 political groups that have any strong following in British politics – those who want to leave the EU who are mostly conservative but not neccessarily Conservatives and those who are followers of Jeremy Corbyn. Both groups are sick and fed up with centrist consensus politics. There is almost no chance of the era of the SDP/Liberal Alliance being replicated because conditions are totally different now. Michael Foot represented a continuation of 35 years of socialism for those who feared going back to the past and Mrs Thatcher was a complete change who inspired many voters. The Alliance was for those who did not like her but did not want Foot’s policy either. It failed to win a majority of votes at a General Election despite winning some by elections.
If Owen Smith is the best that Labour MPs can come up with then Corbyn will probably remain leader of the Labour Party under the present rules and their MPs will stick it out because there is no practical alternative bearing in mind the fate of the SDP.
Like nationalisation in the 1940s but wthout the day to day reality of its implementation, leaving the EU is an exciting adventure for many and already support for Remain appears to be falling so unless there is a serious downturn in the economy the Conservatives can expect to win again but Corbyn will get a lot of Labour voters out who stopped voting under New Labour because to them he seems new and exciting.
Of course I agree with Tony and with Psi. But I also wonder, “why the hurry”?
The Tories and the civil service are working out where they want to take the country in relation to the EU and other trading blocs/countries. It is unlikely that there will be a snap election – and if there were to be one there’s no time for any realignment.
Labour are going through a leadership election for the next two months and then there will be consequences from whatever the result is.
Meanwhile we can just get on and communicate by campaigning for our solution to the situation. Sure, we are not getting any platform in national media – so what has changed? Put it on a piece of paper and put it through a letter box/put it into a social media format and work up its ‘virility’.
This initiative for certain Lib Dems is therefore either or both the following: Either a displacement activity for not defining our position, expressing it in campaignable form and getting it out there together with anyone who wishes to be active citizens – of party or none.
And/Or it is the result of guilty consciences. That is, it is the desperate need of people -who really never thought they would ever get in bed with Tories, but who did, rather liked it, enjoyed the patronage and in the process destroyed the party or very nearly destroyed the party and who now feel they have to prove that it is not ‘the end’ but some kind of fresh beginning – the desperate need to find any short cut possible to absolve their consciences.
Bottoms Up!
Just to put things in perspective Labour has almost 600,00 members and those who cannot vote seem prepared to pay the £25 to enable them to do so. The Liberal Democrats have about 75,000 members and the Greens about the same although they have lost some support to Corbyn and are not so attractive to the left wing voters as they were so may be less now.
We are right to be suspicious of Labour but its not a question of what The Labour Centrists/Right want but what they are going to get. One way or another Labour are going to split & the question of which (if any) of the fragments gets to use the name “Labour” will ultimately be settled in The Courts.
The central point of Paddys project is that we are not going down the Alliance route of deals about who gets to stand where. “More in Common” is about looking for common ground, a minimum list of Policies that most of The Centre Lefties can get behind. That list would have to include EU Membership, Electoral Reform & the aim of reducing inequality. Actually I expect many miraculous conversions to PR among Ex Labourites once they do the maths for life after The Split.
nvelope2003
I agree with nearly everything you say, I certainly think if there was a second referendum the leave camp would win more easily. The world hasn’t collapsed since the vote, companies are continuing to invest in the UK and the IMF have changed their tune about us going into a recession. It’s early days, but politics seems to be a little different – with a new government – and that’s what many people seemed to want. The next GE does appear to be a formality with the Tories on course for a massive majority. The only doubt seems to be how the moderate – normally – Labour supporters will vote. I suppose that’s who the “new progressive liberal movement” are after. I have a feeling that most – like myself – will vote Tory.
PS @nvelope2003
The figures of 600,000 for Labour include temporary £3/25 joiners & members of affiliated Unions who pay a bit extra. Neither of those groups are Full Members. Comparing like with like we get Libdems 75,000 , Greens 60,000 (?) & Labour 300,000. That 4:1 relationship between Labour & us seems fairly constant over the last couple of decades.
The Green figure is a year out of date, as a rule Parties only talk about membership when its going up.
Where can we learn more, eh?
“Before he became an MP, Smith worked for five years (because he needed to earn a crust)…. The Guardian revealed on Tuesday that Smith was in charge of corporate affairs (etc) at (a company which had some public arguments about one of its products, otherwise it would not have needed to pay Smith a crust).
While at Pfizer in 2005 Smith endorsed a Pfizer-backed report (seeing as he didn’t want to get sacked)…. The Times revealed that he said: “We believe that choice is a good thing and that patients and healthcare professionals should be at the heart of developing the agenda.”
Thin gruel. Yes, he worked as a lobbyist. So did Nick Clegg. So did lots of MPs. Digging up some minor dirt from ten years back is not very impressive.
@A Social Liberal
“Simon: Your identification of the political spectrum does not reflect the actuality. The far left and right are not identified, neither are the hard left and right.
I see the spectrum as follows ….”
I think you are missing my point, and in fact your 9 point scale would make matters even worse (with each sector averaging only 11% of the electorate). Also, could I suggest that calling New Labour “centre right” debases the currency, rather.
All I’m saying is imagine ranking UK voters from the most left wing to the most right wing and then splitting them into 5 equal groups. “Centre left” is one of those fairly meaningless expressions, so I’m suggesting that it can sensibly be applied to those who can be ranked from around 20% to 40% (L to R) on that basis.
If any political party or grouping limits its target audience to that 20% of the electorate then its never going to get very far – although I am sure that many of those in it will have a feeling of self-satisfaction. If a serious effort isn’t made to secure a large chunck of the next 20% as well – what I call the Centre 20% – then they are just being conceded to the Conservatives.
A very interesting idea , but it is the responses and the deeply held beliefs of real importance , including my own.
As someone , once upon a time , in Labour , who was too right wing social democrat for old Labour, too centre left Liberal, for New Labour , I have a feeling of kinship but not certainty on this .
I have for long spoken for the creation of something called Realignment . When our own and excellent George Kendall , and his trusty colleague and ours , Rob Jackson , set up the Social Democrat Group , I said on here , and elsewhere , this is something I have been calling for .Is this new movement going to use the name I believe is appropriate and welcome ? You heard it here first !
Jennie Rigg
As a get to the point , she , as often ,gets it right, on one thing , herein , vital ,PR or nothing !
B
paul barker
“That list would have to include EU Membership, Electoral Reform & the aim of reducing inequality.”
We lost the referendum, it still stings but we have to accept that result for now. Finding an internationalist next best is what should be the new focus. If the Brexiters come up with something rubbish as their model and the public are unhappy with the option then we may be able to get people to listen to the alternative but we need to have ideas that are more than “I don’t like the result.”
A lot of unnecessary pessimism here, it seems to me. We are the third major party of the UK, from our history and our recent experience in government, and I sense that a lot of the public, seeing incredulously a failed government and a failed main opposition, have been waiting for a Liberal Democrat comeback and are ready to be wooed again. Believe me, I have lots of Tory AND Labour friends! And though May has made a good start, I find incredible Denis Loretto’s expectation that she will be able to keep the right and centre-right factions within Toryism together for the foreseeable future. What, as they navigate the rocks of Brexism? What, after the ruthless selfishness and bloodbath at the top of their party, people to accept again that they have a right to rule? Are they credible at all, now that Cameron and Osborne are yesterday’s men?
Well, people hadn’t heard of Andrea Leadsom and they haven’t heard of Owen Smith either. There’s everything to play for – and I tell you what, I am proud to be a Liberal Democrat today, but I doubt if many in the other main parties can equal that feeling. Good luck to Tim, Paddy and Nick Clegg, and please let’s all try to back them.
malc, “The only doubt seems to be how the moderate – normally – Labour supporters will vote. I suppose that’s who the “new progressive liberal movement” are after. I have a feeling that most – like myself – will vote Tory.”
Out of interest, is it that you’ve always voted Tory, and you just want to give the Tories another puff? Or do you think of yourself as a “progressive liberal”, who has been bowled over by what the Tories have achieved? That is, calling a referendum they didn’t need, telling the voters it would be disastrous to leave the EU, making no plans whatsoever for Brexit, losing the confidence of the nation, dumping their leader, and putting in a new leader to implement a project she knows is madness?
I hold no remit for Corbyn, whose incompetence is manifest. But frankly, by comparison with Cameron and May, he’s a managerial genius!
If Liberal Democrats want a new cross-party or “broad centre and left” movement to resist Brexit—great! I’ll not only cheer you on, I’ll join you (in the new movement I mean, not in the LibDems) and help. I’ll be ready to work as hard for it as I did for StrongerIn (alongside many LibDems of course).
But that means being neutral on other big issues that divide people. If it’s a vehicle for pushing LibDem concerns like PR, count me out.
Just over a year ago we fielded about 600 Liberal Democrat candidates in a General Election. We stood on a good platform with a well considered and Liberal manifesto.
I’d like to see many of the same people stand again in 2020 supplemented by new candidates to replace those who have retired and other new candidates and existing Liberal Democrat campaigners who have convinced local parties to support them as their candidate.
I think we can do quite well and make a decent first step in our recovery with such a team honed by our common values and our common experiences as Liberal Democrats.
Why should we worry about the Labour Party, or specifically, why should we worry about a section of the Labour Party – and even more specifically – why should we worry about a section of the present Parliamentary Labour Party – who stood against candidates of ours just 15 months ago?
If Corbyn wins the Labour leadership contest and if, IF, non Corbynistas break away, why should we worry about there being two Labour candidates in constituencies in the next General Election? Won’t that make our task of recovery easier? Wont it mean more of our present candidates winning? Won’t this be the first step in our potential replacement of the Labour Party?
Won’t this mean that in the 2025 General Election – when the pendulum swings away from the Tories – we are the best placed alternative Government? Did we not learn anything from the early 1980s?
At the time of the 1906 Liberal Landslide someone (I forget who) predicted that it would be the last Liberal election victory. They were not far wrong. 20 years later the Liberals were smashed as an electoral force and were in the process of being replaced as the alternative to the Tories by the Labour Party.
A similar prediction was made in 1997 this time about the Labour Landslide heralding the end of Labour. It may not have seemed a very good prediction over the next ten years, but now, nearly 20 years later there is the potential for Labour to become a smashed electoral force.
Let’s not do ANYTHING to frustrate that decline.
To do so won’t stop Brexit. It may appear to make a Liberal Democrat recovery a quicker process, but actually it will just keep the lid on the real potential of our Party.
Why didn’t we do better in 2005? That is the question that Nick Clegg asked as he campaigned for leadership of the Party in 2007. The real answer is that we didn’t do well enough in Labour territory and that was because Labour had not combusted in the 1980s.
Westminster – as village or as bubble – is not the best environment in which to formulate strategy. Friendships develop (like the friendship that developed between Blair and Paddy). A ‘clubiness’ brings people together which is never really in the interests of the smaller, less powerful political grouping, and certainly not in the interests of those outside the comfort of that bubble.
Let’s just knuckle down. Do our job of campaigning on Liberal issues. Safeguard those values. Refuse to dilute them for short term gain. And exploit the opportunities that change brings with a ruthlessness and a hunger for our deeply held beliefs – all of them.
The majority of the British electorate have just voted to leave the EU and as a direct consequence control immigration . We knew what we were voting for , we didnt get it wrong , accept it and move on . If the Lib Dems have any hope of reclaiming the ground they lost after propping the Torys up and the tuition fees treachery they you need to work with the working class and not against us . I’m not a Lib Dem hater by the way , my area has an excellent new Lib Dem
Counciler who I voted for , bet that threw you !
This could be great, but it all depends on who gets involved.
I accept some concerns that the movement might advocate supporting the local Labour, Green or Tory candidate, but no-one would be forced to follow this. However, they’d only be endorsed if they meet the criteria, and if we have more of those Labour, Green, Tory MPs in parliament, it will make it easier for the Lib Dem MPs to work with those parties to introduce Lib Dem policies.
Hopefully the scheme will make it harder for lazy incumbent MPs to get re-elected based on image over substance.
I’d be particularly keen to see this group give the existing MPs a report card, indicating how they voted, if they did vote, on key issues such as Caroline Lucas’ recent PR bill, or if they seek out expert advice and aim for evidence based policy. It could be done kindly, so explaining that the reason they missed certain votes was because there had been a family bereavement etc. We need to put an end to the kind of opportunistic selective reporting of voting records as done by certain activists.
A realignment would only occur if the Corbynites forced a very large number of Labour MPs to face reselection but that would not make it likely that the Blairites would win their seats against a Corbynite challenger and if they did not then we would have a repeat of the SDP disaster. This is reminiscent of the Asquith/Lloyd George split in the 1920s but it is not clear who the winner will be unless Corbyn follows Asquith in the way of his departure from public life. Asquith represented Liberalism in a way that the pragmatic Lloyd George did not and it was the Asquithians who inherited the remnants of the Liberal Party, not the Lloyd George faction who went off to the Conservatives ( Gwylym) and Labour (Lady Megan Lloyd George) although Lady Carey Evans his other daughter stayed Liberal, while Violet Asquith, her son (Mark) and son in law (Jo Grimond) remained Liberals.
The problem for the moderate centre left is that people are bored with it and the EU and it has no charismatic or even interesting leaders. The Corbynites present a more exciting prospect for younger people and those who are disillusioned or feeling left out, though curiously many of the Corbynites are from the AB social group and one of his aides is an ex Liberal Democrat who went to public school like Corbyn, and was brought up in a £7 million mansion. Champagne Socialists ! But some of the disillusioned who had abandoned Labour and UKIP without Farage will turn out to vote for them.
I think a few years of winning local council elections or Parliamentary by-elections will be needed before the party can look forward to any success in a General Election if the national opinion polls mean anything.
The idea of having different centre left parties standing in the same constituency without PR is unrealistic as they would just split the vote. An agreed single candidate would be essential, not just to avoid that but as a more postive show of unity to attract the voters.
The attacks on Jeremy Corbyn are so rarely about his policies (just last night a presenter on 5live indicated that Labour MP’s believed him untrustworthy – how could that ever have been said and if it wasn’t how could a presenter make it up?) and those in the labour party attacking him are doing so because he doesn’t quite have the right media image and they don’t like being told who to follow by their members. In my opinion the Lid dems have far more in common, in the way that they would like to see politics played out, with those supporting Corbyn rather than those trying to destroy him.
DJ, I used to think that Corbyn was being unfairly attacked but in the last few months I have become increasingly concerned at the influence of Momentum and their links with far left movements. We have to ask: what is their agenda?
99% of people will fail to distinguish between Paddy Ashdown’s new movement and the Liberal Democrats.
Supporting a rival parliamentary candidate to a Liberal Democrat candidate requires expulsion from the party under the constitution(s).
Phyllis 24th Jul ’16 – 9:36pm………………..DJ, I used to think that Corbyn was being unfairly attacked but in the last few months I have become increasingly concerned at the influence of Momentum and their links with far left movements. We have to ask: what is their agenda?……….
Why? Corbyn’s beliefs and policies seem much unchanged since he was at school…His policies are NOT far left and are far more akin to those of the Liberal Party I grew up with….
Since Thatcher there has been a dramatic shift away from the rights of the individual, employee protection and that of the disabled/unemployed…. The fact that, in government, our party enthusiastically endorsed that shift is a cause of why we are now no longer a serious ‘player’ at national level….
expats –
Agreed! I think we might have more to gain if Corbyn loses. I would rather we gained some of the thousands of new members who flocked to join Labour to support him than the tired old Blairite MPs who can’t accept him as leader. Of course there are some Labour MPs whose defection to us would be welcome, just as there are a few of Corbyn’s supporters we would not want.
My colleague Tony Greaves comments “Why does Paddy never learn?”. What I learnt a Leader and learn again now, is that, for a Party who says they hate tribalism, we find it very difficult not to be tribal. I also learnt in 1992, that when (despite the opposition then of Tony G and others) we dare to take risks to be non-tribal, we can often greatly profit – like nearly doubling our MPs in 1997. These are tough times and dangerous ones. The risk free options are not necessarily the right ones. Sometimes who dares, really can win.
I think that it is a shame that that self-styled “progressives” (what ever that is supposed to mean) stubbornly ignore the fact that people don’t want more immigration and globalization. As for saying we need another referendum because people were lied to by “Leave”, well I don’t remember any Liberal Democrats saying we need another general election after we were lied to by Nick Clegg over tuition fees, not to mention nuclear power. And if you are so keen on getting the Tories out why did you form a government with them?