“Ridiculous” you no doubt think, this is another of the Liberal elite trying to spread scare stories.
Well, if that is what you think then take a look at the Government Petitions website today. A Conservative Councillor has launched a petition calling on the Government to amend the Treason Felony Act to make supporting UK membership of the EU a crime.
The petition states:
Amend the Treason Felony Act to make supporting UK membership of the EU a crime.
The Treason Felony Act be amended to include the following offences:
‘To imagine, devise, promote, work, or encourage others, to support UK becoming a member of the European Union;
– To conspire with foreign powers to make the UK, or part of the UK, become a member of the EU.’It is becoming clear that many politicians and others are unwilling to accept the democratic decision of the British people to leave the EU. Brexit must not be put at risk in the years and decades ahead. For this reason we the undersigned request that the Treason Felony Act be amended as set out in this petition.
(These provisions to become law the day the United Kingdom leaves the EU).
Now, in normal times this would be looked upon as the lunatic act of a slightly unhinged individual, but it has already achieved over 1000 signatures and is proposed by a sitting councillor who has passed the approval process of the Party currently governing this country.
I can understand you thinking that this nonsense can never be realised because freedom a speech is a basic human right. There are countries in this world such as China, North Korea and Thailand where basic freedom of speech is not a human right, with the European Convention gone what is there to stop that happening here in the UK?
What’s more, right now the party that he is a member of, which is also the current party of Government in the UK, is calling for Britain to withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights.
Before you ignore this petition, think carefully about the fact that the person who made this call for an end to the human right to freedom of speech has been elected to office, as an officially approved candidate of the party of Government in the UK.
* Ian Donaldson is a member of ECE and a representative of the Party in England to FCEC.
38 Comments
How long before citizens of this country are called before a tribunal and required to answer the questions:
1 “Do you now support, or have you ever supported, British membership of the EU?”
2 ” Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of a political party which supports British membership of the EU?”
Tom Brake (our Foreign Affairs spokesperson) has issued a statement on this petition:
“It’s bad enough that a Conservative Councillor is trying to shut down any democratic debate about Brexit as treason, but it’s downright frightening that the Prime Minister has so far refused to condemn him.
“People did not vote to turn back the clock to medieval Britain.
“The Lib Dems will be the real voice of opposition and fight against a reckless Brexit that takes us out of the Single Market.”
Perhaps a better headline might have been “Minor Tory self-publicist starts stupid petition.”
Nick, I agree.
Mary, thanks for that update.
David, as I have said in the article this is a person who is an approved and elected councillor in the party which is not only governing the UK but also calling for the abolition of the European Convention. It also has already gleaned over 1000 signatures (500 of which were gleaned between me emailing the article to Mary and her publishing it here).
Ridicule did not stop Brexit, and it may yet not stop Trump. It might be more beneficial to see this attack on our hard won human rights for what it is.
@Nick Collins
That’s just silly. A court could just order the EU referendum votes to be unsealed. No need to waste time with tribunals and such like.
I note the petition is by one…”Cllr Christian Holliday”…
Firstly, his parents obviously named him wrongly. Secondly he needs to take the advice from his surname and make it a long, long one…
The Tory PR machine has certainly dropped the ball here, as soon as it was out they should have had a statement out shutting this down but they will dither. I would have thought that the likes of Rabb, who claims that Britain has a history that makes the HRA redundant, should have been straight out shooting it down. It is just a matter of time though, they can’t be stupid enough to have it not disowned by 6pm.
I hope the punishment is something very nasty,.. and leaves a permanent mark..!
So you might get a few thousands fantasists backing a crackpot idea that is not going to be passed. Meanwhile we’ve had people hounded out of jobs and in some cases imprisoned for saying stupid things on Facebook. Also look up the Bernard Connelly case.
David is right it is just a stupid petition by a self publicist. ‘
It is reported that this person (Councillor Candlemas?) has been suspended from the Conservative group in Guildford.
The principle of free speech means that this fanatic deserves to be heard. Let’s have it in the open where everyone can get a damn good look at it. Let’s have it garner enough signatures for HMG to be obliged to respond to it, and then let’s publicise that response.
A friend had just described to me how, as a child, she saw Franco’s military men shoot dead two lads from her village. They’d been heard to support freedom for the Basque Country. Today in Britain, millions of people sincerely believe that membership of the EU represents the best future for the people of this country (including those that like it so much that they have chosen to make their lives here), and are prepared to continue to argue for it, even if they are not prepared to die, kill or harm for it. We MUST beware of the development of any strong-arm attempts by anyone of any group — including HMG — to silence this enormous body of people who love their country too.
It is also reported that there is now a petition to change his name to Winterval.
While its true that the man who started this has been suspended by his Local Party, the response from No10 was very different.
“Different people will choose their words differently.”
That sounds to me like approval of the spirit whils regretfully admitting that it cant be done. The No 10 statement goes on to say ” …we should respect the will of The British People.” That sounds like approval to me.
This is how our current Government thinks & its not simply a joke.
Iain
If the councillor isn’t joking, we need to make a lot of this , it is madness, or worse ! Name shame , attack and back ! The world , or bits of it , now going bonkers for sure !
I don’t think he’s joking, Lorenzo. His website states that he was Vote Leave Co-ordinator for Guildford: a constituency the majority of whose electors voted to Remain.
“”illogical nonsense from someone who clearly needs support”.”
That’s the opinion of the Tory leader of the Guildford council, basically he thinks Cllr Holliday” has problems. I think the Lib Dems are getting a little over excited in their desperation to find fault with people who wish to leave the EU.
“Now, in normal times this would be looked upon as the lunatic act of a slightly unhinged individual” – It still would be. It still is. And it’s also pretty funny to be fair.
But make no mistake, free speech is under threat in this country. In fact I would go as far as to say that we do not really have freedom of speech in the UK anymore. This erosion of one of our most fundamental liberties is one of the reason these so called “liberal elites” are so hated, they are seen as responsible for taking people’s basic freedoms away, and it is not uncommon to hear people complain that “you can’t say anything anymore”. This is real censorship.
But freedom of speech has been attacked and eroded by the political left, not the conservative right. The constant hounding of people for making jokes on social media, the demands that people are sacked or worse because their opinion is “unacceptable” to use the weasel words of these censors. This has all come about from what I would call the Harriet Harman wing of the Labour Party and, sadly, some in the Lib Dems.
Even websites are far more censored than they were a decade ago.
And if you look at Europe, the further left a country is, the more freedom of speech is censored. In countries like Sweden when people are jailed for mere words that they have said it is not uncommon for the judge to tell them that the fact they what they said was true was no defence at all should the accused try and use the defence that what they have said is factually accurate.
I actually hope Teresa May defends this clowns right to be offensive, because there is no chance of being imprisoned for saying you don’t think we should leave the EU.
“with the European Convention gone what is there to stop that happening here in the UK?”
Centuries of common law precedent and convention that have protected the right to free speech rather better than has normally been the case on the continent at the same time?
And indeed current law and jurisprudence that protects the press in cases that the European courts do not. ECHR is far more likely to injunt against newspapers on the ground of private and family life for instance.
Suzanne MacLeod
“The principle of free speech means that this fanatic deserves to be heard”
Of course, I never understand people who want to restrict speech that is worrying. If some nut job wants me to be harmed I want them to say so. Then I can be ready.
malc
“I think the Lib Dems are getting a little over excited”
Initially I thought that (through wasn’t going to object, parties do this all the time). But the response from the Tories makes it more than that. I was expecting a statement to the effect of:
‘this is clearly a ridiculous proposal, Britain has a long history of free speech which we have spread around the world… blah blah…’
A quick dismissal which makes it clear they know it is nonsense. I could see that from Bernard Ingham or Andy Coulson, but for some reason not the government now.
Psi – yes, we have long history of free speech so we should not object on principle to the ridicule worthy petition – but if Theresa May is a respectable politician, she should condemn it and disassociate her government from it. She might even be guilty as charged, if this ever became law since she backed Remain (or said she did). MPs should pester her at PMQs to oppose it.
He’s gonna need an awful lot of money, putting 16 million people in jail.
@ Suzanne MacLeod, John McHugo & Psi,
No-one is seeking to deprive Cllr Holliday, or those who sign his petition, of their right to freedom of speech. But if Parliament were ever foolish enough to amend the Treason Felony Act in the way that he seeks, the result would be a serious curtailment of ours. That is why we are right to confront his views.
We are right to challenge the Conservatives on this; Theresa May should condemn his views publicly. Otherwise we could see a rise in this kind of attitude among the Conservatives; it will be helped by people who will transfer their allegiance away from UKIP to the Conservatives or to local groups of Independents. In my area, a new Independents group was formed by 3 local UKIP councillors disillusioned by the party management and top-down methods; in spite of leaving Ukip, their views on national issues remain the same as Ukip.
This is a particularly silly suggestion. Better that all elected MPs, councillors and others to elected office swear (amongst other things) to uphold the right to freedom of speech. And whilst we’re at it, we really must stop electing people to bodies they not only don’t support but want to close down. Had we done that years ago we wouldn’t be in the awful mess we’re now in, because Farrage and his pals would not have been given a free paid platform to advance their noxious views. At least Sinn Fein had the good grace not to take their seats at Westminster!
@ Simon Boyd. Before the penalty was changed to (up to life) imprisonment, it was transportation to Australia. Perhaps a revival of that penalty would solve the problem. That would, of course, require Liam Fox to negotiate a change in Australia’s immigration policy.
Such a penalty might have its compensations. This “treasonous felon” would not mind a free trip to Australia: especially if it could be arranged in time for the next Ashes series.
@Simon Boyd
I think they should be allowed four options.
1) recant
2) education
3) exile
4) jail
That should cut the numbers substantially.
@ John Peters. But the second would probably cancel out the first.
John Peters — Good luck on getting a viable extradition treaty for your point 3). But should I and a very large amount of other diversely skilled and experienced public-sector workers in this country need to seek asylum anywhere, could the last person in the NHS turn out the lights?
Or will you be seeking immigrants to replace us?
Matt (Bristol)
Our erstwhile EU colleagues will be very welcoming of diversely skilled (I have no idea if that is good or bad) and experienced workers. They will be needed to fill the jobs in the vibrant rump EU economies. Have no fear.
Oh, and by the way, John Peters, going back to your comment at 3.39 p.m yesterday: what Cllr. Halliday has proposed is legislation to become effective in 2019 or whenever this country finally implements the folly of leaving the EU. What you are advocating is something much more draconian: retrospective legislation to criminalise the 48% who voted “Remain” on 23 June 2016.
@Nick Collins
That’s why I felt it fair that they should be allowed to recant or accept education. I don’t think people should suffer for an honest mistake made in their youth.
@ John Peters Thank you for confirming that you are an advocate of retrospective legislation: enough said, I think.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjau-Kq5OTPAhXmDsAKHZX8Aw4QtwIIHDAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWhGFwk58h34&usg=AFQjCNGkaleJJCnoTGAI8pEu_vn4WdR4sA&sig2=f7JiGYyvOUQRi8vfIJHkhg&bvm=bv.135974163,d.bGs
One: he’s clearly an attention-seeking idiom (similar word – I thought maybe using the precise word would get this post held for review).
Two: I’m all for it. Any Government mad enough to try it would fall. I volunteer to be a traitor.
By the way, I’ve recently read an excellent scholarly book on Hess’ flight to Britain in 1942. It strikes me that the arguments used in 1936-43 by Britons wanting peace with Germany at any price are remarkably similar to those of some hard Brexiteers now: what happens on the continent is none of our business; British interests are all that should count; we shouldn’t spend resources to benefit Poles, Czechs and South Slavs; the Empire (read trade with China and the Special Relationship with the US) is much more important to us than Europe.
If, and when, our economy is ruined, our currency a joke and our standing in the world reduced I would class that as ‘Treason’ …Those who facilitated such destruction should, IMO, undergo the classical punishment for such treason by being hanged, drawn and quartered….
The UK would then have over 17 million (mainly elderly) less as a burden on the NHS, etc. Our foreign doctors, nurses would be able to cope more easily…Our future would look far brighter…
Now, where’s my axe…
@expats
Luckily we avoided that tragedy by voting Leave but I applaud the sentiment. We mustn’t allow ourselves to be held back by regressives.
@ Expats. I believe that the “drawing” part used to involve burning the victims’ entrails over an open fire. Could we forego that part, please: for environmental reasons?