Here are the highlights of the Lib Dem In campaign launch from earlier this week. Who do you recognise?
This is Britain's time to lead, not leave. See the highlights from our #INtogether launch, and join our campaign!
Posted by Liberal Democrats on Friday, 12 February 2016
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16 Comments
What did Oscar Wilde say? “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel”? Waving the flag won’t win the argument. Surely we can do better than this.
@johnmarriott. No it won’t, but reclaiming the flag from the likes of the BNP, UKIP, the NF and other right wing groups claiming to be patriotic is very important too. The country and the flag belong to all of us – and I’m not at all patriotic.
Sadly the flag has become so tarnished by association with the far right, that the sight of it makes me, and many others, feel deeply uneasy. Perhaps we should be trying to reclaim the flag, but the launch of the staying in Europe campaign didn’t really seem the right moment to do this. The emphasis on the flag, and on patriotism, seemed misguided. Should there not have been a bit more emphasis not just on what Europe can do for Britain, but on what Britain can, and should, do for Europe?
No, the flag hasn’t been “tarnished” by the far-right – the flag is OUR flag, and always has been, and always will be. I am a patriot of every level of society that I am part of: a patriot of Bristol, Westcountry, England, Britain, Europe and the Earth. I like and value the flags and emblems of all of them, because I am part of them all and the reason I got into politics is to help make all of them be even better.
It’s no wonder that so many people appear to be forced to make a false-choice between the love of the EU vs patriotism for the UK, when we have otherwise intelligent liberals themselves appearing to agree that British patriotism is a bad thing and intelligent people should discard it. How insulting.
Making Britain the best it can be means keeping our influence as strong as possible in the world, and that means play our part in the future development of the world into continental associations. Being part of the EU and being an active member of the global community is the liberal and patriotic choice, because isolationism is an admission of cultural defeat and cultural weakness.
John, Mick , Catherine , you baffle me
I could not disagree more, as a born and bred British man, of half Italian and part Irish origin , yes I am patriotic , very patriotic ,more than most . It was my Italian father , God bless him, who made me feel it the most .If you grow up with stories of the hideous Mussolini , followed by the corruption of the post war Italy , and if you hear of the backwardness of Ireland then as an alternative , why not British patriotism ?! I would ask all of our commenting friends above , why are you not at all patriotic ?
Quoting Wilde won’t do for me on this one ,and I might add I love his work , but he was an Anglo Irishman of a cynical nature when on those issues , and sardonic or sentimental on others, in my view not a good choice to open the argument against patriotism. Love of something good can only be a good thing , and is the best antidote to hate !I love Britain ,I do not hate any other country .There is the difference between patriotism and nationalism and between historical , Liberal nationalism in countries like nineteenth century Italy actually , and later , extreme versions .
The only way this referendum is to be won by the in campaign is with an appeal to patriotic notions and feelings, as part of the argument also based on facts and figures. Unless the heart is in it , we , the British people are out of it , and I mean the EU! If any members are so old school puritanical , methodism vs marxism and all that stuff , that they cannot see that “evidenced based”, is a given , as a general rule , but that on many an occasion people want and need to be given something more too, then why on earth support Tim Farron?!His whole appeal is to the head and heart .And to love of his county , his community and his country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark
You and I need to get together , I think we are real allies !
I can see the testosterone flowing already. It’s like a boxing match. If you are a counterpuncher taking on a brawler, you don’t let him drag you into a free for all. Clegg tried it with Farage and look how he finished up. Is waving the flag an attempt to gloss over all that is obviously wrong with the EU?
A better approach would be to acknowledge that the EU has to change to cope with a changing world. The Brits can lead that movement for change, which, deep down, many members and their citizens want to see.
As for patriotism, if I had been born in 1923 instead of 1943, I would have been the first to answer the call. I shall be cheering England on against Italy tomorrow so you’ve no need to lecture me, Cllr Wright.
If we are going to win the argument to remain we have got to insist that the outers spell out in no uncertain terms what life will be like outside.
Oh dear. You can’t win on Europe by appealing to ” patriotism”, it just won’t fly. Your best bet is to appeal to people’s pockets and self interest. Jobs, employment rights etc, and dealing with international crime. Make it about people’s daily lives and experiences, and about the future of their children.
Mark Wright is right: “It’s no wonder that so many people appear to be forced to make a false-choice between the love of the EU vs patriotism for the UK, when we have otherwise intelligent liberals themselves appearing to agree that British patriotism is a bad thing and intelligent people should discard it.”.
Catherine Bearder was right to drape herself in the Union flag. It’s a controversial flag in Northern Ireland and sometimes in Scotland, but on an occasion like this it is good to fly it. Far right people from across the world adopt patriotism, so we can’t just say “flags are bad”.
I do have a minor concern about the campaign though. When Lib Dems get carried away with the pro EU thing then it makes people think what they really want is the Euro and Schengen and if people think they are voting for more integration then it can backfire.
With respect, would the Lib Dems be happy for the UK to hand over all “unilateral” sovereignty as regards the EU, ie Cameron’s “emergency handbrake” which would actually require about 14 countries to agree with the UK before a stop was implemented and become a “state/region” of a country called “the EU” and the unilaterally sovereign country as regards the EU: “the UK” essentially become part of history? Please note I would welcome to be educated on anything I might not be properly understanding – thank you for reading.
P.S. Again please correct me if I am wrong and AM happy to be informed – the EU has a parliament, flag, anthem and there is talk about planning an army, etc. – would that not make it essentially a country?
It might help if we actually told people the truth.
Britain leaving the EU would lead to the ultimate collapse of the rest of the EU and the unravelling of free trade. The European powers would once again be at each others’ throats, and there would be nothing to restrain authoritarian leaders like Kaczynski, Orban and Erdogan from doing their worst. It would be back to the 1930s, but without an Empire. When people look into an abyss they tend to back away.
We also need to make clear to people that opposition to the EU comes from the hard, ideological, Poujadeist right, who object to the additional employment rights that the EU requires us to have. Far from being patriotic, the Tory right, and their rebellious offshoot, UKIP, are perfectly happy to take their orders from the United States of America, and given the situation that Britain would face isolated from Europe, they would have to.
Hello Sesenco – thank you for posting – which other points here do you think are incorrect and why: http://www.ukip.org/busting_the_eu_myths?
The trouble with the trade argument is that it’s all based on guesswork and therefore seen as scaremongering. We need a positive case for a reformed EU, which can deal with the problems of a globalised world through cooperation.
I like the message about patriotism and leading not leaving the EU. I’m hoping that a development of the campaign will be to show how we would lead and change the EU for the better.
Sue S there is no way the UK could lead and change the EU. Look at Cameron’s attempt. We are a very small disliked cog, Europe does not vote for us in the Eurovision song contest let alone in the EU.
“Europe does not vote for us in the Eurovision song contest let alone in the EU.” – “touche”.